Patch Notes Archive
Thread: Hotfix Notes: Live November 12, 2004 Version: 104456.104837
Minerunner
Sun Nov 14, 2004 1:48 am
#14
Actually on a side note, I suspect for reasons I choose not to divulge though you can figure it out pretty easily, that people will start being overt in normal space more often. Also 30,000 Prestige entry fee is chump change, as of right now I could enter and leave Deep Space some 300 times without earning any more Prestige.
CaileSathinor
Sun Nov 14, 2004 4:24 am
#15
Tiggs, what are the chances, because you've now made Kessel PvE, you could allow us to fly our Yachts there? I was disappointed to hear you made it PvE in the first place, but was hoping that you'd enable it so we could do such a thing. You guys worked so hard to make such a beautiful zone, I'd love to enjoy it from my observation lounge on my yacht. Yea? Nay?
Thanks for your time. Everything else coming out of TC looks great!
-Caile
Tyim
Sun Nov 14, 2004 8:13 am
#17
It is a sadness really. Another perfectly good challenge shot down in a barrage of whining. Yes indeed, we can now all become MASTERS in 8 hours of grinding. oh joy.
The only challenge in this game is trying to build a community; the battle against attrition. Please start ignoring the folks who want everything to be easy, and add some stuff that is HARD, not just long (like the jedi grind, 20 weeks of the same stuff over and over and over and over.)
please.
Maulibaer
Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:00 am
#18
Minerunner wrote:
While some servers are not a good example why this change was made, I agree this change had to be made based on the activity of players on some servers.
In essence one side or another on each server would non stop zone camp grief the other, and in some server cases it never switched one side simply always had one or two griefers/exploiters sitting waiting for the opposing forces to log in.
It was an exploit of the zoneing/loading system, and it was exploited terribly. And NOT be only a small few players.
I'm rather proud that my new server Eclipse wasn't one of the ones responcible for it. But my former server sure as heck was as well as MANY other servers. In essence turning what was a fun and dangerous mission into something only midly exciting.
So you can once again blame griefers/exploiters for this change. And do some of you begin to see why I promote the idea of blanket bannings of exploiters/griefers?
Don't bann them! Mark them as OUTLAWS, put permadeath on them and make them a BH-Mission for 1.5mil credits!!!!
So we would have some REAL work to do......
Ellos
Sun Nov 14, 2004 10:58 am
#19
HEY DMSL!!!
- No more exclusive content! Sunglasses, flashspeeder etc all of these should be available to everyone! Just make all of them veteran rewards. Better yet, can we get craftable sunglasses?
I don't normally comment directly on someone's post in here in a negative way, but I'm gonna semi flame the hell out of that one...
I paid extra for it. In the event that sony would like to hand out sunglasses to everyone they can refund me 40$$
I paid extra for the collecters edition in real world dollars, I pre-ordered jtl with real world dollars to get my flash speeder. It's not exclusive content, it's marketing content and I like mine. If you missed the boat that is fine but don't complain that it needs to be made available to everyone. If they do make it avalable to everyone I will expect my check in the mail...
Oh yeah on the point of the post. Where exactly do SA pilots declare overt? Is there some strange space station that I haven't heard about?
Issirxo
Sun Nov 14, 2004 12:10 pm
#20
Is this patch suppose to take 60 HOURS!!! for dialup users to download? You've ruined my weekend. Yes, I know I wish I had a high speed connection too. But 60 hours. Usually it only takes me an hour and a half to download each of the three pieces of a major publish. Is there soemthing wrong with my computer? I feel like I'm being punished!!! To say the least I'm a little frustrated.
-Smokey-
Sun Nov 14, 2004 11:25 pm
#21
How about cloning the sector, renaming it and making it pure pvp, then implement random spawn points to stop griefers.
Best of both worlds.
truewildman
Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:33 am
#22
truewildman wrote:
I've got no response anywhere else.
With Kessel purely PvE now, what are the Freelance pilots for the Smuggler's Alliance to do? We get turned away from factional space stations, and the deep space station on dath only has imp or rebel as choices.
For a smuggler, having to pick a side effectively ends my roleplay.
Is there any recognition of this, and what's going to be implemented to keep it the way it was for Privateers?
You know, I would be ecstatic to even hear, "No, I'm sorry, we can't".
The communication in beta was excellent. Thousands of players were still happy even hearing "No can do." Please don't go back to shutting us out.
NewEco
Mon Nov 15, 2004 2:05 am
#23
.... oh oh next big mistake (sologroup-nerf) .....
instead of relocating Mastermissions to a PvE Area you
decided to nerf the PvP community. Good job ! Well done !
/sarcasm_off
I was delighted to see, that SOE implemented a true PvP area
with no rules at all. No rules at all means that the community can
set its own rules which is a good thing. The only MMORPG i am aware
of, that offers the same freedom is ultima online (felucca). With the
decision to implement a non-consesual PvP area, to my opionin (although
i am not a hardcore PvP player) SOE did something unexpepcted couragious
and beneficial for the game.
Unfortunately you decided to have the master pilot missions in this
area. Throughout the whole beta the community advised you to relocate
this content, apparently with no success. Instead of this, SOE decided
to "fix" the problem in the very same cheap and lame way, like they decided to
fix the "exploit" of solo-groups, they nerfed it to infunctionality.
As i said in threads concerning solo-goup-nerf, its not gonna be
the particular nerf itself, that will make me leave, its the dumb state
of mind shown by these interventions, killing all perspectives for the
game and making me finally leave.
to be at least a little bit constructive i try to outline a true fix for
the griefer problem (as you will see, this ADDs functionality to game instead
of REMOVING) :
1. relocate master pilot content from kessel, it simply does not belong there,
as said about one thousand times in other threads, you must not force players
to PvP if they decide to not do it.
2. re-establish kessel rule set ! It was really a very good decission
to have a true non-consensual PvP area. This will make this game
attractive for veterans, and give a source of long-term motivation.
3. Once you have implemented the "invulnerable while loading", enable an
additional sort of stealth mode, that automatically activates when you
hyperjump to/in the kessel system. The stealth mode disables your weapons but
also makes you invisible for other players. This stealth mode lasts for
lets say 60 seconds , so that you can move from the hyperspace entry
points to a less dangerous position. After 45 seconds you become visible
and vulnerable to other players, but your weapons are still disabled for
additional 15 seconds .... This way i see no way how you could exploit
the stealth mode for griefing. Even if a group decides to gank a target
by stealth appoach, within the 15 seconds the victim has plenty of time to
flee or kill some of the aggressors.
By the way, you maybe want to change the "invulnerable while loading" thing
to my "invisible/disabled weapons" proposal with a different timing. Lets
say 15/5 after the client is completly initialized, so the player can check
the scene for 15 seconds being still invisible and has a additional 5 sec period
to be fully operative. If someone tries to use this to evade a NPC/player enemy
one is still "punished" with a 5 sec period vulnerable while own weapons are disabled.
=> fixed a major source of griefing ! The rest of so-called griefing is simply
game mechanics of a true non-consensual PvP area and for that i would say, leave
it as it is. People who do not like non-consensual PvP should just keep out
of the Kessel system ! period !
But even if my idea is all non sense, Tiggs please state about the future of
the of the Kessel system!
Is this nerf going to be permanent, or is it a true "hotfix", because SOE
decided to relocate the master pilot to another system and eventually re-
establish the old Kessel rule set? We all understand that the relocation
of content takes time and that the "hotfix" was the easiest way serving as
a interim workaround.
Unfortunately,from the last decisions of the Dev team (solo-group-nerf), i am
not sure anymore, if its just another expample of stupid, sick-minded game
nerfing or a interim hotfix for something that just takes a little bit more
time to be implemented.
instead of relocating Mastermissions to a PvE Area you
decided to nerf the PvP community. Good job ! Well done !
/sarcasm_off
I was delighted to see, that SOE implemented a true PvP area
with no rules at all. No rules at all means that the community can
set its own rules which is a good thing. The only MMORPG i am aware
of, that offers the same freedom is ultima online (felucca). With the
decision to implement a non-consesual PvP area, to my opionin (although
i am not a hardcore PvP player) SOE did something unexpepcted couragious
and beneficial for the game.
Unfortunately you decided to have the master pilot missions in this
area. Throughout the whole beta the community advised you to relocate
this content, apparently with no success. Instead of this, SOE decided
to "fix" the problem in the very same cheap and lame way, like they decided to
fix the "exploit" of solo-groups, they nerfed it to infunctionality.
As i said in threads concerning solo-goup-nerf, its not gonna be
the particular nerf itself, that will make me leave, its the dumb state
of mind shown by these interventions, killing all perspectives for the
game and making me finally leave.
to be at least a little bit constructive i try to outline a true fix for
the griefer problem (as you will see, this ADDs functionality to game instead
of REMOVING) :
1. relocate master pilot content from kessel, it simply does not belong there,
as said about one thousand times in other threads, you must not force players
to PvP if they decide to not do it.
2. re-establish kessel rule set ! It was really a very good decission
to have a true non-consensual PvP area. This will make this game
attractive for veterans, and give a source of long-term motivation.
3. Once you have implemented the "invulnerable while loading", enable an
additional sort of stealth mode, that automatically activates when you
hyperjump to/in the kessel system. The stealth mode disables your weapons but
also makes you invisible for other players. This stealth mode lasts for
lets say 60 seconds , so that you can move from the hyperspace entry
points to a less dangerous position. After 45 seconds you become visible
and vulnerable to other players, but your weapons are still disabled for
additional 15 seconds .... This way i see no way how you could exploit
the stealth mode for griefing. Even if a group decides to gank a target
by stealth appoach, within the 15 seconds the victim has plenty of time to
flee or kill some of the aggressors.
By the way, you maybe want to change the "invulnerable while loading" thing
to my "invisible/disabled weapons" proposal with a different timing. Lets
say 15/5 after the client is completly initialized, so the player can check
the scene for 15 seconds being still invisible and has a additional 5 sec period
to be fully operative. If someone tries to use this to evade a NPC/player enemy
one is still "punished" with a 5 sec period vulnerable while own weapons are disabled.
=> fixed a major source of griefing ! The rest of so-called griefing is simply
game mechanics of a true non-consensual PvP area and for that i would say, leave
it as it is. People who do not like non-consensual PvP should just keep out
of the Kessel system ! period !
But even if my idea is all non sense, Tiggs please state about the future of
the of the Kessel system!
Is this nerf going to be permanent, or is it a true "hotfix", because SOE
decided to relocate the master pilot to another system and eventually re-
establish the old Kessel rule set? We all understand that the relocation
of content takes time and that the "hotfix" was the easiest way serving as
a interim workaround.
Unfortunately,from the last decisions of the Dev team (solo-group-nerf), i am
not sure anymore, if its just another expample of stupid, sick-minded game
nerfing or a interim hotfix for something that just takes a little bit more
time to be implemented.
Message Edited by NewEco on 11-15-2004 03:03 PM
Message Edited by NewEco on 11-15-2004 03:07 PM
Message Edited by NewEco on 11-15-2004 03:09 PM
DMSL
Mon Nov 15, 2004 5:29 am
#24
Ellos wrote:
HEY DMSL!!!
- No more exclusive content! Sunglasses, flashspeeder etc all of these should be available to everyone! Just make all of them veteran rewards. Better yet, can we get craftable sunglasses?
I don't normally comment directly on someone's post in here in a negative way, but I'm gonna semi flame the hell out of that one...
I paid extra for it. In the event that sony would like to hand out sunglasses to everyone they can refund me 40$$
I paid extra for the collecters edition in real world dollars, I pre-ordered jtl with real world dollars to get my flash speeder. It's not exclusive content, it's marketing content and I like mine. If you missed the boat that is fine but don't complain that it needs to be made available to everyone. If they do make it avalable to everyone I will expect my check in the mail...
Oh yeah on the point of the post. Where exactly do SA pilots declare overt? Is there some strange space station that I haven't heard about?
Yeah so you paid extra (can't be more than 10 bucks extra, get over it)for the collector's edition, but we didn't get it here in Europe.
As for JTL, same price everywhere, only problem is i didn't get the Flashspeeder. I want unlimited vehicle calls too!
Btw, to get back to the topic, can you PLEASE fix the game SOE, runtime errors and client crashes are happening all the time.
Message Edited by DMSL on 11-15-2004 04:59 AM
gravatai
Mon Nov 15, 2004 7:56 am
#25
The reason it was implemented, as stated, was because of certain players intentionally stopping others from attaining the master box. Fortunatelly I didnt see any of this on Chimeara, but as been proven thats not the case with other servers.And its THEM you should point the finger at for this change.
One, i dont know if viable, solution would be to make kessel like the normal space/tier 1 space. Where as with new pilots there missions are set in noob space, they could set the same sort of system with kessel, that if members of the group have the master box missions, then they go into this "alternative" kessel that is pve only, yet if a group goes there without anyone holding a master mission they jump into the full blown pvp kessel.
But that would take, i imagine, a lot more programming to implement. So lets see if this update is a temp fix and the permenant solution will be implemented into the game at a later date, when it's ready.
GreatWarrior
Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:23 pm
#26
-Smokey- wrote:
How about cloning the sector, renaming it and making it pure pvp, then implement random spawn points to stop griefers.
Best of both worlds.
They need to do something as pvp is dead in space. I have yet to find one overt since this patch came through and Deep Space is abandoned. With overt taking up too much time to setup for some people and Deep Space being too lagged, people have given up on attempting to pvp. A lot of people went to space for the xwa experience and you can't have that without interacting with players in combat.
And the question pointed at me before.... should I blame "griefers"? No. I blame whinning people who should be more tactically minded, get people to help them on their missions and learn from mistakes. You don't deserve an ace badge if you wimper away from a challenge.