Musician Archive
Thread: Riiight
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rebus_ks
Sun Jul 11, 2004 3:21 pm
#1
In the thread (now locked) Disgruntled? How to properly inform SOE of your feelings Jeassa wrote:
I don't think that my letter to them looked like hate mail. Most people who have read it and commented to me about it liked it very much. Secondly, I hope they will listen and accept my feedback, so if that is the case I don't see how mailing them "isn't going to accomplish what you want." The reason that we want to send them mail is precicely because these forums are not the most effective way to make our statements.
The only red name post in recent history on any of the entertainer boards was Pex's post apologising for granting the buff-bot a badge. We have been given no indication that the devs read our posts or care about our professions, and you're telling us that we can submit feedback on these forums. I'm sorry, but the reason for writing letters is to get them to take notice. Many of us feel disheartened, downtrodden, and, in fact, ripped off that we pay to play this game and we are not seeing our $15/month going to do anything to help us.
You want feedback? Read the forums. No, really read them. If the devs actually read these forums we wouldn't have bothered to try to start a letter-writing campaign in the first place.
Please do not call or write letters...
First off because people go through the mail first, and if it looks like hate mail it doesn't make it's way to us. Secondly because no matter how many letters you write it won't be able to change the course of an entire design plan. They will listen and accept your feedback, and do with it what they can but calling and mailing letters isn't going to accomplish what you want.
However the submit feedback thing and posting on the forums are viable and reasonable and probably the most effective ways to make your statements.
I don't think that my letter to them looked like hate mail. Most people who have read it and commented to me about it liked it very much. Secondly, I hope they will listen and accept my feedback, so if that is the case I don't see how mailing them "isn't going to accomplish what you want." The reason that we want to send them mail is precicely because these forums are not the most effective way to make our statements.
The only red name post in recent history on any of the entertainer boards was Pex's post apologising for granting the buff-bot a badge. We have been given no indication that the devs read our posts or care about our professions, and you're telling us that we can submit feedback on these forums. I'm sorry, but the reason for writing letters is to get them to take notice. Many of us feel disheartened, downtrodden, and, in fact, ripped off that we pay to play this game and we are not seeing our $15/month going to do anything to help us.
You want feedback? Read the forums. No, really read them. If the devs actually read these forums we wouldn't have bothered to try to start a letter-writing campaign in the first place.
Drygo
Sun Jul 11, 2004 3:32 pm
#2
rebus_ks wrote:
You want feedback? Read the forums. No, really read them. If the devs actually read these forums we wouldn't have bothered to try to start a letter-writing campaign in the first place.
Exactly. We've been feeling as if there has been no indication whatsoever that the devs read these forums. As nice as it was to get an official apology from Pex, I suspect it was because a ruckus was caused on the Corre forums. Do they read these entertainer forums? Will one of them actually post here to let us know that they understand what our issues are?
Until that happens, and because it *hasn't* happened in...gee, I don't think it ever has since I rejoined the game this past February, then people have felt the need to try to find other methods to be heard. We've gotten no indication whatsoever that they're hearing us in these forums, so it's logical that people will try to find another way. Letter writing appears to be effective when I've done so with other companies, it's natural to think it might be effective with SOE unless we're given proof that these forums are effective.
Warplex
Sun Jul 11, 2004 3:48 pm
#3
Ifyou want to read hate mail, read mail from the GCW fourm. We haven't been changed since beta, except for buffs. No devs have posted in this fourm in months. Notice how my steps call for fourm posts, which are unlikely to get noticed (because the devs never read here!). I also was told by a CSR the mailing address and phone (doubt anyone would use that, but it is nice to have), and he agreed that it was a good way. I find it offensive that you would close a thread which correspondants approve of, and not let us rebuke it. This has proven the only way that SOE would pay attention to us, since they just don't pay attention to our fourms.
NewJedi
Sun Jul 11, 2004 7:54 pm
#4
I have to admit, I don't understand why SOE is discouraging snail-mail correspondence. If I were running the company, I'd want as much market information as possible about what my customers do and don't like. That's why I endorsed the original idea.
I do agree with Jeassa, though, that pure rants are unproductive. The devs pay no attention to them. You catch more flies with honey than with flyswatters.
rebus_ks
Sun Jul 11, 2004 8:07 pm
#5
NewJedi wrote:I have to admit, I don't understand why SOE is discouraging snail-mail correspondence. If I were running the company, I'd want as much market information as possible about what my customers do and don't like. That's why I endorsed the original idea.I do agree with Jeassa, though, that pure rants are unproductive. The devs pay no attention to them. You catch more flies with honey than with flyswatters.
Very true, NewJedi, but I don't recall anywhere where we were encouraging sending rants and raves to SOE. Sure, we do it on the forums occasionally and possibly too often, but a person who takes the time to write a letter to SOE will almost certainly take the time to write a proper one. That the thread was closed with a comment about posting here instead when we have not seen anything come of posting here at all is a huge slap in the face.
DarkY0da
Sun Jul 11, 2004 9:53 pm
#6
I am also very surprised at the locking of that thread. What mail does nothing ? Or is that some people just don't want us sending mail. Because as far as I know mail IS the most effective way of getting a view point or a complaint across to a company. ( apart from just putting your money some where else that is). Mailing Lucas Arts is a good way to let them know that Star Wars fans thing SOE is screwing up their world. To say that these broken and bugged forums are the most effective way of getting anything across to those in charge is a joke and an insult.
As for the honey comment you catch more flies with Rotten meat in a jar then you do with honey.
Warplex
Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:53 am
#7
The beauty of snail mail is that it almost always requires a written response. You'll notice i said make sure that your have a well written letter (i.e. it gets the point across without being to bitchy).
On the other hand, it would be an interesting occurence if we found the address for the community relations manager and complained about a certain moderator... lets leave that for another day.
Warryyr
Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:41 am
#8
Umm, it's ridiculous that anyone would suggest that writing a letter to a company would be unproductive. What is this, the digital mafia, telling us writing letters won't do any good and locking a thread discussing a letter writing campaign? What the hell is wrong with the people running this game/moderating these forums.
The day that writing a letter to a company is unproductive is the day the world ends.
No digital media in any form will ever have the impact that a personal letter has to a company. ESPECIALLY with the prevelance of digital correspondence in this age, when someone takes the time to really WRITE a letter, I would say it bears more examination than a random email that gives you an auto-reply response.
Who exactly do these people think they are? This is the saddest forum moderation I've ever seen, as well as a disgusting policy (it would seem) of discouraging letter writing. What is it that they're afraid of by us writing letters? Oh, and if they think that saying "you're not likely to change anything in the design cycle, so don't bother writing letters" then I'd say....well, how exactly is it that the design cycle is decided? Oh right....priority. Have enough folks being vocal about something, priority goes up. Those who remain quiet don't get the attention. It's not rocket science.
Write the letters, people. There's some reason why want to specifically discourage letter writing, and maybe it's because then they'll have to pay attention to us, instead of pushing us further into the cantina to toot away on our little horns like trained monkeys.
WHO IN THIS DAY AND AGE DISCOURAGES WRITING LETTERS - WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE...
Gknee
Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:17 am
#9
Warplex wrote:
The beauty of snail mail is that it almost always requires a written response.
More likely you'd get a canned letter from staffer.
FarmerDozee
Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:43 am
#10
I read the locked down post last night, and I had no idea hot I should react. So, I took a night to sleep on it and have a somewhat clearer mind. Iam very perplexed as to why they told us to not write letters. I thought that we have made the point that the forums are nothelping us, so we are resorting to methods that will.
Jeassa seems a bit ill-informed about Warplex's post. The purpose of the letters is for a formal way for the Devs to receive our feedback. The forums are not serving their purpose, and "are not going to change the course of an entire design plan." Writing letters will be the first step, because the Devs will actually listen and accept our feedback, unlike the current situation (and Jeassa confirms that the Devs do listen to the mail in the post.)
So Jeassa theCommunity Relations Manager mightnot even be aware of our current plight.It seemsthat he/she is discouraging us writing letters because she believes that the forums are serving their purpose, strengthening our beliefs that we are ignored by the Devs. Jeassa is obviously not aware of our issues. (This theory of course is if Jeassa had good intentions. IF Jeassa had bad intentions, then they are officially shutting Musicians out of all responses. Heavy emphasis on IF! I do believe Jeassa had good intentions here.)
I then want to encourage everyone to continue writing letters. Follow Warplex's post, and be sure to be polite with your writings. If this is the only way for anyone to hear us, then let us be sure we're heard. Snail-mail will be sure that we're heard, and this is exactly what we want to accomplish. It IS the most effective way for us to make our statements.
(My apologies in advance if this thread gets locked down too. I just think that snail-mail seems to be the only solution that will work.)
Warryyr
Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:43 am
#11
Gknee wrote:
Warplex wrote:
The beauty of snail mail is that it almost always requires a written response.
More likely you'd get a canned letter from staffer.
True, however - an actual physical letter demands that something be done with it. You may get a canned response, but that letter you sent goes somewhere. Sure, maybe you're saying, it goes in the trashcan. Well, if that's the case, how would any company stay in business by just throwing away feedback from someone driven enough to actually write a letter? That's market research you don't HAVE TO PAY FOR! Focus groups are nothing compared to feedback from folks who write letters. Letter writers are one of two kinds of people - someone extremely pleased with service, or someone extremely displeased with service. It blantantly tells you where your strengths and weaknesses are.
With an email/forum post, it can all very easily get mistakenly deleted, or forgotten about in an inbox, or lost in the sea of forum posts, etc. There's no guarantee that electronic message goes anywhere useful. At least with a letter, people need to deal with it in some way or another.
Warryyr
Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:50 am
#12
First off because people go through the mail first
rebus_ks wrote:
In the thread (now locked) Disgruntled? How to properly inform SOE of your feelings Jeassa wrote:
Please do not call or write letters...
First off because people go through the mail first, and if it looks like hate mail it doesn't make it's way to us. Secondly because no matter how many letters you write it won't be able to change the course of an entire design plan. They will listen and accept your feedback, and do with it what they can but calling and mailing letters isn't going to accomplish what you want.
However the submit feedback thing and posting on the forums are viable and reasonable and probably the most effective ways to make your statements.
People read our letters? Reason #1 why I'm writing more, then!
if it looks like hate mail it doesn't make it's way to us
Tread very lightly on (essentially) accusing us of sending hate mail. You have no right to judge us, nor what we're writing about and suggest we're all inclined to send hate mail to SOE or Lucas. You seem to have a very negative viewpoint of the people who post on the forums you moderate. If anyone sends hate mail, of course they deserve to have their stuff ignored. It goes without saying that those who are working on this game don't deserve to read some disturbing ramblings of someone who's got anger management problems. Contrary to your (apparent) viewpoint of our letter writing, Jeassa, we LOVE our profession. We do not HATE the devs. This is why we're compelled to do everything within our powers to keep this style of gameplay alive and well DESPITE the attempts by this Dev team to ignore us and let us fade to black.
Groovymarlin
Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:58 am
#13
Keep writing letters! If anything, this lockdown and "advice" from Jeassa makes me more committed to sending a snail-mail letter.
AlsoDranon - read your letter and was very impressed. Well done!
We all know we're not sending "hate mail." If Jeassa had bothered to carefully read the thread and comprehend the intent, she'd know we're not sending "hate mail" either. So by all means, post on the forums, submit feedback via the link provided, and WRITE LETTERS! 
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