Musician Archive
Thread: Riiight
Warplex
Mon Jul 12, 2004 2:24 pm
#14
Its interesting: Jeassa locking my post down brought all the more attention to it. If her goal was to stop us from writing letters asking for attention, or critizing some aspects of the game, then she has failed miserably. On the otherhand, someone needs to read a letter, and that person, if they find it interesting, may foward it to someone higher up in community relations, which in turn will switch it to departments (if it is really good). That is something these forums cannot do.
Tralmek
Tue Jul 13, 2004 8:27 am
#15
This is coupled with the...promotion? Reallocation?of Q-3PO. I won't go so far as to say that Q was asked to move on to a different project because he was beginning to be an advocate for the Entertainment professions, but I'm willing to bet that something he said made SOE realize his abilities would be better-used elsewhere. Who knows, this decision really could have been affected by the letter-writing.
Just a thought.
TooVeeOrahno
Tue Jul 13, 2004 2:36 pm
#16
Please do not call or write letters...
First off because people go through the mail first, and if it looks like hate mail it doesn't make it's way to us. Secondly because no matter how many letters you write it won't be able to change the course of an entire design plan. They will listen and accept your feedback, and do with it what they can but calling and mailing letters isn't going to accomplish what you want.
However the submit feedback thing and posting on the forums are viable and reasonable and probably the most effective ways to make your statements.
How does she know for sure that writing letters will no accomplish what we want? Does she handle all of SOE's mail directly? We're not trying to "change the course of the entire design plan". We're merely trying to get a little attention, and have our voices heard. For a representative to tell people that mailing letters to the company is wrong is just bad business. How ridiculous.
Message Edited by TooVeeOrahno on 07-13-2004 02:37 PM
Xyrdre
Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:31 pm
#17
I'm not sure why that thread was locked. Perhaps Jeassa only scanned the thread quickly (yes, there are a lot of threads for Jeassa to try tomonitor) and in passing mistakenly thought it was a call for hate mail campaigns. The accompanying comments in her locking postindicate to me that the intentions behind that thread were misunderstood.I think that if the intention was to censor us, the thread would have been deleted outright rather than locked.
As far as I can tell, we are not trying to change the grand design plan. We're trying to get things back to the design plan. Or, at least as much of that design plan that we can divine.
We have asked to be let in on that design plan, at least so far as our roles are concerned. The sole reason we have been asking to be let in on the design plan for us is so that we know if we're on the right track with our suggestions, requests and comments. We know that we're not going to create some upheaval that changes the whole direction of the game and forces core conceptual shifts. We only need to know if what we think of asour roles in the greater game are indeed what the devs have in mind for that design plan, so that we're not wasting our energies accidentally barking up the wrong trees. We've asked politely, repeatedly, on these forums, and there has been only silence.
These forums have been less than successful at fostering two-way communicationbetween players ofthe social playstyle and the development staff, and for a very long time now there has been a great deal of skepticism as to whether or not even one-way communication is occuring. We know that our correspondents are doing everything in their power for us - many just question nowwhether even they are being heard by the devs.That kind of prolonged silence will breed such a lack of faith in the system. That kind ofprolonged silencecomes to beinterpreted as total indifference.
When our own correspondents learn that there are new songs and dances being released by reading threads in their own forums instead of getting the heads up directly, there is something wrong. When we are asked to submit questions for the dev team, and our question is ignored and another onechosen at random, there is a problem.
There exists a chain of command, if you will, in business. As a customer, if you do not feel that your concerns are being addressed by the counter clerk, you politely ask to speak to the manager. If the manager will not address your concern, you locate their superior, and so on. Nothing new here.
These forums are the first line of communication. We have been asking that our concerns be addressed, and have essentially received a doe-eyed stare. When mywaiter stands silently and stares blanklyat me for 11 monthsas I explain that there was a razor blade in my soup, I'm asking for the manager. In this milieu, writing letters to SOE or LA is nothing more than asking to speak to the next available superior in the management chain.
It's a reasonable request.
Warplex
Tue Jul 13, 2004 5:07 pm
#18
I'm tempted to just re-post the thread detailing how to contact SOE...
TooVeeOrahno
Tue Jul 13, 2004 5:43 pm
#19
Xyrdre wrote:
I'm not sure why that thread was locked. Perhaps Jeassa only scanned the thread quickly (yes, there are a lot of threads for Jeassa to try tomonitor) and in passing mistakenly thought it was a call for hate mail campaigns. The accompanying comments in her locking postindicate to me that the intentions behind that thread were misunderstood.I think that if the intention was to censor us, the thread would have been deleted outright rather than locked.
As far as I can tell, we are not trying to change the grand design plan. We're trying to get things back to the design plan. Or, at least as much of that design plan that we can divine.
We have asked to be let in on that design plan, at least so far as our roles are concerned. The sole reason we have been asking to be let in on the design plan for us is so that we know if we're on the right track with our suggestions, requests and comments. We know that we're not going to create some upheaval that changes the whole direction of the game and forces core conceptual shifts. We only need to know if what we think of asour roles in the greater game are indeed what the devs have in mind for that design plan, so that we're not wasting our energies accidentally barking up the wrong trees. We've asked politely, repeatedly, on these forums, and there has been only silence.
These forums have been less than successful at fostering two-way communicationbetween players ofthe social playstyle and the development staff, and for a very long time now there has been a great deal of skepticism as to whether or not even one-way communication is occuring. We know that our correspondents are doing everything in their power for us - many just question nowwhether even they are being heard by the devs.That kind of prolonged silence will breed such a lack of faith in the system. That kind ofprolonged silencecomes to beinterpreted as total indifference.
When our own correspondents learn that there are new songs and dances being released by reading threads in their own forums instead of getting the heads up directly, there is something wrong. When we are asked to submit questions for the dev team, and our question is ignored and another onechosen at random, there is a problem.
There exists a chain of command, if you will, in business. As a customer, if you do not feel that your concerns are being addressed by the counter clerk, you politely ask to speak to the manager. If the manager will not address your concern, you locate their superior, and so on. Nothing new here.
These forums are the first line of communication. We have been asking that our concerns be addressed, and have essentially received a doe-eyed stare. When mywaiter stands silently and stares blanklyat me for 11 monthsas I explain that there was a razor blade in my soup, I'm asking for the manager. In this milieu, writing letters to SOE or LA is nothing more than asking to speak to the next available superior in the management chain.
It's a reasonable request.
I could not agree more, Deila. One of my characters is a master image designer and I look at that forum every once in a while. I am fairly sure that the correspondent, Kwee, has direct dealings with developers. We get our information second hand, if at all. Things have got to improve.
ShadowProject
Tue Jul 13, 2004 9:25 pm
#20
You guys still write letters?
Look, I'm disapointed in a few things in the game too. Yes, we need more songs, coming soon by the way.
But look at all the other profs:
Jedi still needs a LOT of help!
Smugglers still need something to smuggle, plus they need to fix it so it doesn't require ANY brawler skills to get novice smuggler sense we get no unarmed skills with smuggler.
But the devs are making HUGE strides. We have mounts and vehicles, we get new quests, we've got buffs, so on and so forth.
My point is this: Why send a letter if you feel your opinions and feedback is getting lost on the boards? What's stopping the devs from just throwing away any letter they get, or sending a generic response letter back to you?
Do you really want to hurt the game development MORE by bogging down the devs with paper letters? Keep posting, pray and hope the devs read and and change it, but if it isn't in the cards to get what you want, either move on in the game, or stop playing.
Sending letters won't do any good, it can only do bad. I side with the Devs. And if you restart a thread cloning the one that was closed, hey, the force be with you with what ever happens.
There, I've said my 2 cents. Go back to griping if you want.
rebus_ks
Tue Jul 13, 2004 11:02 pm
#21
Thank you, ShadowProject, for coming in here and telling us to stop complaining. I'm not denying that other things need to be fixed; they do. However, unlike the things that are being fixed right now and the new content added or not, what have the devs done for us? Try, well what was there? We got entertainer droids which were partially for us and partially for the droid engineers. We got a fix for the thirty-second buff exploit; well, two actually when one would have been enough. Um, can anyone help me here?
You see, there has been no communication at all with us except for Pex apologizing for the buff-bot badge. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Yes, we have vehicles and mounts, buffs, which have turned out to be a mixed blessing, and the promise of new quests dances and songs. We don't have a dev coming to the forum and saying, "Sorry we've ignored you for so long, now what can we help you with?" We have buff-bots breaking the profession, an apparently inattentive development team, buffing problems, and no real user interface for buffs or healing. They announced that we were getting new songs and dances? Where? Certainly not here.
And as to why write when they can just as easily throw the letter away as ignore a forum post? Despite this being the fantastic and wonderful internet age, with electronic communication whizzing over the wires, a real paper letter still carries weight with almost any company that I've ever dealt with, and SOE ignores any real letters at its own peril. It's a wonderful game, really it is, but I feel, and many other people feel, that we have been ignored for so long that it's time to stand up and say, "hey, we don't like this." We have not seen any dev interaction at all, so it's time to take the next step. If you feel that it won't help and will actually hurt then that's your opinion. My opinion is that it can do no harm, so we might as well give it a shot.
You see, there has been no communication at all with us except for Pex apologizing for the buff-bot badge. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Yes, we have vehicles and mounts, buffs, which have turned out to be a mixed blessing, and the promise of new quests dances and songs. We don't have a dev coming to the forum and saying, "Sorry we've ignored you for so long, now what can we help you with?" We have buff-bots breaking the profession, an apparently inattentive development team, buffing problems, and no real user interface for buffs or healing. They announced that we were getting new songs and dances? Where? Certainly not here.
And as to why write when they can just as easily throw the letter away as ignore a forum post? Despite this being the fantastic and wonderful internet age, with electronic communication whizzing over the wires, a real paper letter still carries weight with almost any company that I've ever dealt with, and SOE ignores any real letters at its own peril. It's a wonderful game, really it is, but I feel, and many other people feel, that we have been ignored for so long that it's time to stand up and say, "hey, we don't like this." We have not seen any dev interaction at all, so it's time to take the next step. If you feel that it won't help and will actually hurt then that's your opinion. My opinion is that it can do no harm, so we might as well give it a shot.
MusicalDina
Wed Jul 14, 2004 6:30 am
#22
shadow you are missing the point here and saying that our profession is less important than others.
jedi need help? they just got 1.5 publishes for them
smugglers need help? they have a publish slated for them
combatants need help? they have the combat balance coming up
entertainers need help? um...
We arent asking to be revamped in the next publish. We arent asking to take all the time from the devs. We dont want the world.
What we want is to be able to say that we havent been neglected for the full year of live p2p. We are slated to get new song, and dance in publish 10. Well, that is really cool, and is very exciting to many players that play the entertainment professions. But think about that for a second. 1 or 2 new songs/dances in a full year of p2p.
So why should we continue playing this game when no dev comes near our board except to admit that afkers dont deserve a best of the profession badge, and there has been no real improvement to our profession for 12 MONTHS. Not to mention the devs royally screwed up our profession with hologrinding.
(as a note, hologrinding is ending, but the afkers will not leave. People have figured out that it is easier and cheaper for them to have a musician/dancer alt, then to go to a entertainer. Until SOE changes something with recursive macros our profession will forever be a bot profession)
So I ask you again. Why should we NOT write letters to SOE? These forums dont get read by devs. We want attentionjust as the rest of you want attention. I apologize if I am taking your post wrong shadow, but it sounds to me as you think jedi, or smugglers are more important than we are. They are not. Likewise we are not more important than them. We are equally important. So why should we not want attention? Why, like every other profession ingame, should we not want to see a dev post on our forums more than once a year? Why, like every other profession, should we not get a bit of attention from the devs?
Currently we are getting none. Many of the players that once played this profession have moved on. Ever wonder why you cant find an ent to buff your mind? well this is why.
Stop treating us as fourth class citizens. We have the same right to get our profession changed as the jedi do.
Kreistor
Wed Jul 14, 2004 7:25 am
#23
ShadowProject wrote:
Jedi still needs a LOT of help!
And the Devs post in their boards and ask how they can help.
Smugglers still need something to smuggle, plus they need to fix it so it doesn't require ANY brawler skills to get novice smuggler sense we get no unarmed skills with smuggler.
And the Devs post in their boards and ask how they can help.
We've been asking for months, Shadow, and have gotten no response what so ever. That's the biggest complaint.
But the devs are making HUGE strides.
Huge strides are great, and it's fantastic that so much has been done to improve this game as a whole. But, being entertainers we'd like some of our issues addressed. Not because we're more important than the others, but simply because there are issues that need to be addressed
My point is this: Why send a letter if you feel your opinions and feedback is getting lost on the boards? What's stopping the devs from just throwing away any letter they get, or sending a generic response letter back to you?
Because in order to throw away the letter it has to be read by someone first. There's no reason for anyone at SOE to read these boards, but someone at SOE has to determine whether our letters are to be passed on or not. Someone knows.
There, I've said my 2 cents. Go back to griping if you want.
Thank you Shadow, and you can go back to trolling 
TooVeeOrahno
Wed Jul 14, 2004 5:28 pm
#24
My problem with this is that a company should encourage it's customers to get in contact anyway they can. We should not be told not to write letters.
Warplex
Fri Jul 16, 2004 5:02 am
#25
Recent events (i.e. JTL being pushed ahead of everyone else) have infuriated me enough to repost my thread of SOE contact information. lets all keep that thread at the top of page 1, shal we?
Tarnak_Archvold
Fri Jul 16, 2004 2:55 pm
#26
Maybe this is why the old thread was locked. Imagine all the unhappy players writing letters to SOE and LA. They would have had to hire extra mail staff.