Musician Archive
Thread: Why I'm AFKing my way to master
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Aleyo
Fri Jun 11, 2004 3:28 pm
#1
First things first, I'm not defending or attacking afk entertainers in this post. I'm merely explaining why I personally have been afking, and what I think would have prevented me from doing so.
The simple reason is this: levelling up is boring. In order to become a master in a time period less than half a year, you've gotta play with the groups in frequented areas. In doing so, you don't have the freedom to really create a unique band with special performances. For one, you aren't levelled up enough to play some of the instruments or songs (you're always limited by the lowest level member of the group as to which song to play). Secondly, since the process of levelling is so boring, everyone wants to get it over with as quickly as possible, so bandflourishes are scolded, and everything reverts to the lowest common denominator that will give the most xp.
The biggest problem is that there's no variety. Once you get a skillbox, you maybe get a new song to play, which you probably won't play because you want to keep levelling till you can play that omni box or the nalargon, so you stay with the group in Coronet and stick to rock or starwars1. Combat characters don't necessarily gain many new abilities with each skillbox either, but they have 100s of species of enemies to encounter, each with different resists and AI, leading to much more variety than the same exact cantina on one of two planets. When I levelled up my combat medic, I was having fun from the very beginning because I could go with my small group of friends on their hunting trips, take potshots at enemies, and heal the members of the group. Each fight brought a unique experience of trying to stay alive while keeping my friends alive too, since the enemies would attack in different ways. And all the time I gaining lots of XP while enjoying myself.
My post title is probably misleading. I've levelled up my music knowledge so that I can play all the songs and instruments apart from the master musician box. I'd be more than happy now to use this variety to form a band and start playing for the sake of playing and listening to the music, gaining xp however slowly it comes. It's too bad I couldn't have done this on my way to where I am now, gaining xp at a reasonable rate so that I wouldn't feel like it'd be months before I could play the bandfill.
I think the solution is this. It is more important that lower level players be able to have fun than it is for higher level players. Higher level players will be happy because of the sense of accomplishment, and the access to better opportunities. But if the only fun in the game comes when you become a master of an elite profession, you're asking everyone to find the cheapest fastest way to get there, wasting their time to reach that level before they can even start to have fun.
Sorry for the long post. Just my thoughts.
-Scipionus Mentus
The simple reason is this: levelling up is boring. In order to become a master in a time period less than half a year, you've gotta play with the groups in frequented areas. In doing so, you don't have the freedom to really create a unique band with special performances. For one, you aren't levelled up enough to play some of the instruments or songs (you're always limited by the lowest level member of the group as to which song to play). Secondly, since the process of levelling is so boring, everyone wants to get it over with as quickly as possible, so bandflourishes are scolded, and everything reverts to the lowest common denominator that will give the most xp.
The biggest problem is that there's no variety. Once you get a skillbox, you maybe get a new song to play, which you probably won't play because you want to keep levelling till you can play that omni box or the nalargon, so you stay with the group in Coronet and stick to rock or starwars1. Combat characters don't necessarily gain many new abilities with each skillbox either, but they have 100s of species of enemies to encounter, each with different resists and AI, leading to much more variety than the same exact cantina on one of two planets. When I levelled up my combat medic, I was having fun from the very beginning because I could go with my small group of friends on their hunting trips, take potshots at enemies, and heal the members of the group. Each fight brought a unique experience of trying to stay alive while keeping my friends alive too, since the enemies would attack in different ways. And all the time I gaining lots of XP while enjoying myself.
My post title is probably misleading. I've levelled up my music knowledge so that I can play all the songs and instruments apart from the master musician box. I'd be more than happy now to use this variety to form a band and start playing for the sake of playing and listening to the music, gaining xp however slowly it comes. It's too bad I couldn't have done this on my way to where I am now, gaining xp at a reasonable rate so that I wouldn't feel like it'd be months before I could play the bandfill.
I think the solution is this. It is more important that lower level players be able to have fun than it is for higher level players. Higher level players will be happy because of the sense of accomplishment, and the access to better opportunities. But if the only fun in the game comes when you become a master of an elite profession, you're asking everyone to find the cheapest fastest way to get there, wasting their time to reach that level before they can even start to have fun.
Sorry for the long post. Just my thoughts.
-Scipionus Mentus
NewJedi
Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:04 pm
#2
I had fun leveling up to Master at the keyboard at launch. It took me about 3 or 4 weeks, I think. I had no macro function at all; I barely knew it existed. I chatted with fellow performers and audience members, flirted with the dancers,andinsisted on experimenting with the music rather than just playing Rock for 10 hours straight. It was fun.
MusicalDina
Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:23 pm
#3
why are you a musician?
if leveling is boring to you so too will master.
I leveled to master ATK, and had tons of fun. Met all kinds of new people i wouldnt have had i not been atk, and did it in 2-4 weeks.
Forgive me for ranting yet again on this subject, and i mean no disrespect, but being 'boring' still isnt an excuse to do something afk. If it is boring, dont do it.
Being master changes gameplay in NO way. You get a new instrument and a new song, but as you said before that doesnt change the 'boredom'.
Master Musicians that keep Master are one of two things.
a. a buff bot - an alt for a main character so there is access to free buffs
b. a social person who is master who doesnt play for anything but fun. The fun doesnt come directly from the music (well for some it does) but from the interacting from the people being entertained.
Anybody else that makes master, doesnt keep it long because it is as you said 'boring'.
FYI Musicians have NO content that is not player-made. If you are looking for solo-fun, money, respect, or stuff to do, musician probably isnt the profession to do.
We make the least money, cant do anything solo (cant even self buff), and well most people treat us like we are npcs.
Wendelius
Fri Jun 11, 2004 5:57 pm
#4
Aleyo,
I have to agree with the replies you got. My first SWG char went up the Music and Dance trees up to the novice level not long after launch and I had a ton of fun doing it. I would get to meet higher level performers who would teach me new tricks, chat with the audiences (who weren't as tired of hearing the same old songs as now) and tour the Galaxy. For 2 weeks, I was the only musician on Lok in my Galaxy and I made tons of cash and had tons of fun meeting hunters there. Sure my XP wasn't shooting up during those 2 weeks but it was nice to be the centre of attention. Then that character branched back to her main profession and became a Master Doctor. It must be said that the part I prefer playing my Doctor is interacting with the patients I heal, not selling buffs outside a starport.
Anyway, fast forward nearly a year and, after having taken a break from the game for 6 months, I restarted a new char 10 days ago and an making that char purely an entertainer (ID, music and dance, to then take music and dance to master level). And you know what? I'm still having a blast. Sure I was disappointed to see that during all the time I had been away the profession had basically remained unchanged (despite promises by the devs) and that AFK'ers were everywhere. But I can still go into a cantina or into the player city's cantina where I live and entertain an audience. I've joined a few larger bands in Mos Eisley. But if macroers spam, I tend to leave quickly and go entertain somewhere else. I'm only 1 ID, 3 Music, 3 Dance, 3 Ent Haling right now so I'm not rushing up the treesbut I'm having fun doing it.
As has been said, if you can't enjoy the way to master and be bothered to learn the best flourishes for each song and have fun interacting with audiences as well as getting to know other entertainers, it seems unlikely that being able to display the "Master Musician" title is suddenly going to make you enjoy the profession more.
Just my 0.02$
Wendelius
NewJedi
Fri Jun 11, 2004 10:02 pm
#5
Glad you're having fun, Wendelius. Good to see you posting here again. 
Aleyo
Sat Jun 12, 2004 9:29 am
#6
I was anticipating the "if it's boring now it'll be boring later" responses, which I tried to cut off by describing my plans as a higher level musician.
I don't believe this is true in my case. Now that I've reached a high enough level, I don't intend to just sit my char down in the most populated cantina and wait for whatever fun people come by while I'm levelling up. As I stated, I like the idea of forming a band with coordinated acts, and as a low-level entertainer, a) I wouldn't feel like I was an asset to the band (which I'm sure could be untrue.. to be fair, I didn't inquire about this when I was low-level), and b) I personally wouldn't like the songs I'd be able to play. Starwars1, rock, starwars2 just don't do it for me. I'm on the verge of designing a new city with some of the friends I've met, and intend to be part of the local band, with performances that will knock your socks off.
But besides that, I do have fun with the social aspect of the game when I am at the keyboard. There are various regulars at the Theed cantina who will tell you I've become their friends, and that I like to have fun conversing with the passers by. The fact is though, I can be social with any aspect of the game, and it's just the fact that my character has to stay put in the same type of location, not even being able to use animated emotes to interact with other people.
I totally respect those for whom hanging out in the cantina is enough to stay happy. For me personally, it's very fun, but not quite enough. I just wish I felt I had some opportunity to explore different ways of using the profession when I was a lower level. I still think the devs are not focused enough on creating content for the novice professions.
I don't believe this is true in my case. Now that I've reached a high enough level, I don't intend to just sit my char down in the most populated cantina and wait for whatever fun people come by while I'm levelling up. As I stated, I like the idea of forming a band with coordinated acts, and as a low-level entertainer, a) I wouldn't feel like I was an asset to the band (which I'm sure could be untrue.. to be fair, I didn't inquire about this when I was low-level), and b) I personally wouldn't like the songs I'd be able to play. Starwars1, rock, starwars2 just don't do it for me. I'm on the verge of designing a new city with some of the friends I've met, and intend to be part of the local band, with performances that will knock your socks off.
But besides that, I do have fun with the social aspect of the game when I am at the keyboard. There are various regulars at the Theed cantina who will tell you I've become their friends, and that I like to have fun conversing with the passers by. The fact is though, I can be social with any aspect of the game, and it's just the fact that my character has to stay put in the same type of location, not even being able to use animated emotes to interact with other people.
I totally respect those for whom hanging out in the cantina is enough to stay happy. For me personally, it's very fun, but not quite enough. I just wish I felt I had some opportunity to explore different ways of using the profession when I was a lower level. I still think the devs are not focused enough on creating content for the novice professions.
KwoTon
Sun Jun 13, 2004 2:47 pm
#7
If you think levelign up is Boring, dont make Musician your proffession choice, cause master is the same thing, you just dont need the XP. Im having a lot of fun leveling (stilllNoviceMusician! woohoo! Took me 3 weeks, cause i only went to theed and joined a zombie group once, lol.)
I admit I use a looping macro, but its only because I love to chat, if I need to go AFK I stop playing and sit down while im gone. You miss out on a lot while AFK imm sure. And there are usualy nice people AK in a zombie Group. 
MoJoShadowsoul
Sun Jun 13, 2004 5:53 pm
#8
Master Musician is a bajillion more times fun than leveling.I ground parts of Musician myself, and now that I'm master, I'm having the time of my life. I'm in a band, we play gigs, and it's awesome. Evil places like Coronet and Theed (which isn't as bad as Coronet) will be gone forever

Laelaus
Sun Jun 13, 2004 7:30 pm
#9
I will NOT be sitting at the computer while im leveling musician.
Does it make you mad? Well there are an awful lot of people who **edit** about it here, but when im in a 20 person group and i ask /g can someone please teach me music 1, nobody responds out of 11 musicians. Why the hell should i sit in a cantina FULL of afkers? Nobody talks, people who need healing come in, watch, leave. No chat, no nothing. If you honestly think that people should sit here and dance while everyone else is AFK/not talking, i dont know what to say to you. It sucks that its designed this way, but it is. Sure correspondant, you did it in 3/4 weeks, but nobody really knnew about macroing. It wasnt widly used or understood how detalied your macros could actually get. Also there were no hologrinders, so people who were dancing WANTED to be dancing, legitimatly leveling. People couldnt walk in, watch an AFKer, and leave like they can now. This and dancer are completley borked, and need to be fixed. AFK macroing in a profession based on socilization is a joke. You can hate AFKing all you want, but until they fix the problem, i'm going to be doing it. Frankly its unfair you can macro it to master without sitting here, if you can do it, why cant every other profession?
Just laying a few things out i guess.
MajorCurt
Sun Jun 13, 2004 7:42 pm
#10
I have to say leveling in this day and age with AFK bots would be quite boring (but I found fun in it for a few hours, until people stopped comming) , however, I remember leveling up way back with Ricky, and those were FUN, some of the most fun days of my SWG life. I really got my musical tentacles out there, experimenting with gigs (my first gig was with Ricky and Odoro at Ami's Place. I still remember that awesome first night there), and just have fun.
I do have to comment though...people who find leveling up boring may enjoy Master and playing with other Masters, but I'm not promising anything.
JohnMarble
Sun Jun 13, 2004 9:36 pm
#11
Laelus, that reminds me of somebody looting TVs during a riot. Everybody else is looting TVs, why shouldn't I? Well, you're one person looting a TV, and everybody else could look at it the same way, blaming the guy next to him to justify themselves. YOU are part of the problem. I love going to Mos Eisley these days, where the noobs don't realize they should be AFK yet. I love it when they say they're having a blast. Maybe entertainer sucks because you've all made it suck?
I'm just pointing out your logic, I could care less if you hologrind. Actually,I don't think many entertainers actually had a problem with the people being AFK itself, the complaints have always been about the spam, or the AFKers crowding the front or center stage, or buffboting. I've known many hologrinders, made some friends, who were quite cool, and played mostly AFK. These weren't idiots screaming "PLZ INVITE ME TO GROUP IF I'M NOT IN GROUP AND PLZ HEAL IF I NEED HEAL AND REMEMBER TO TIP THX!" every 5 seconds.
Cudayn
Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:11 pm
#12
Not sitting at the computer while you are leveling your character in any profession is, IMHO, the cheap and easy way out. You do not "learn" about your class and its almost as if someone has handed you something that you don't deserve, yet you will take it anyhow. It cheapens all of our entertainer classes and its the equivilant of an "I WIN" button. If you want to be more than a Buff-bot, there are places where people are still ATK. You can find some very good player cantinas in some of the more popular towns that are located by, interestingly enough, major hunting areas. You can even find good ATK players in the big NPC cities, but I agree its hard.
And if you think people are hard on AFKs now, you should have been in some of the first groups that formed in the major cities when this game was still new. If you were AFK for much more than 10 minutes without a good excuse, you got the boot.
You hit the nail on the head however, about the Hologrind. It was the catalyst that was the demise of the entertainer professions. I used to could make 50k tips a night. Now if I am lucky I can get that in a week, unless I have some very generous patrons. Whats very sad, is that a person actually told me the other night, after I had told him since he had very high BF, that I could have him fixed up in no time, "no thanks, I will listen to these people (AFKers) because they need the xp".
The SWG team realizes their great folly, and have said so, in regards to the hologrind and have taken the steps to remove it. I would highly recommend to anyone that "wants" to be an entertainer, to wait until after publish 9, perhaps even publish 10. Then we should start to return to a semi-normal state since there will no longer be any need to hologrind.
Yes the game has the mechanics to be AFK in the entertainer classes, with the exception of ID, which is still being tweeked. Will you derive pleasure from your character, whom you never had to do anything other than start a looping macro and go to bed and awake ready for training? If someone gave me a brand new car and I went and wrecked it. Oh well, I didn't have to pay for it. But if I had paid for it.....oh no, its the end of the world. See what I mean?
SWG does cater to varied playstyles, but most true entertainers don't play their characters as if this were a single player game and you can get all the hints and cheats on your local games website. We truely care about our characters and the time and effort it took to get where we are, and most of us will not settle for the easy way, especially when it has been said that AFK macroing was never intended to be a part of the game.
And in parting, you pay your 15 / month just the same as I do, so you have the right to play your character however the game will permit you to do so. But for those of us who wish there was not a macro system, or at least no way to make a looping macro, don't hate us. We are not trying to ruin anyones fun, but rather enrich everyones enjoyment. And if being an entertainer is not what you would normally be, except for the, hey I can make this guy a Master and do nothing but let the PC run, please go play another profession.
Durney Kova
Master Entertainer / Master Musician / Master Image Designer / Novice Dancer
Lowca Server - Bestine Area
Aleyo
Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:10 am
#13
Cudayn wrote:Not sitting at the computer while you are leveling your character in any profession is, IMHO, the cheap and easy way out. You do not "learn" about your class and its almost as if someone has handed you something that you don't deserve, yet you will take it anyhow.
I agree with many of your sentiments Cudayn, but I have to take issue with one statement. I'd argue that, unfortunately, there's not all that much to learn about the musician profession. Don't get me wrong, I'd *LOVE* for there to be more to learn. But as it is, you don't learn much more from the X number of hours between skill boxes than you do from the first hour per skillbox.
I very much enjoy what I can learn, and what I have learned. I just took the approach that when I'm home, at the computer, I'll play around with things, and when I'm asleep or at work I'll let my character continue progressing. What I miss in the meantime I'll learn when I get back.
I did make Master Musician last night, and have no plans to ever leave the profession behind. I'll be enjoying what there is left to learn, and how to work with bandmembers to put together some great shows. Maybe even start up my own cantina.
-Scipionus Mentus
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