Musician Archive
Thread: How many of these folks are NOT posting about the 0040 Musician nerf?
Warryyr wrote:
Nevermind.
Message Edited by Warryyr on 07-07-2005 09:44 AM
/hug Warryyr
"Its our lot in life..."
Sorta sums up the shape of 106 utterly useless skillpoints. Musician is depreciating faster than most cars. I'm fairly certain the Dancers aren't 100% pleased with what they're getting out of this deal, but as musicians, we get even less. Bitter? Well, yeah. The sum total of skills between the two of my characters I play most includes Bio-Engineer, Architect, Musician, Merchant, and Pistoleer, with all the prerequiste bits filled in as necessary. The only one(s) of the above in "alright" shape at the moment are Merchant and Pistoleer. And yeah, I survived the Merchant nerf/de-nerf earlier. Suffered with broken pistol specials from the start. Shook two balled up fists at SOE for all the damage they've been doing to BE for over a year and a half. Complained bitterly about the lack of color options for furniture (the only branch of Architect I still have). And Musician? ....
Master Musician was my first mastery in SWG.A long timeago, in a galaxy far, far away from being recognizable as the one I started playing on two years ago. That said, I'll never drop MMusician. Imperial decrees or no. Cantinas staffed with zombies or no. Un-used beautiful venues in NPC cities or no. Spamming factional NPC's we can't /addignore or no. All the rest of the stuff I grumble about or no. Musician's FUN, and I for one am just gonna keep plugging away at my bandfill, come what may. I don't have to LIKE it. And I don't have to DROP it either.
Perhaps my posting style's just a little too abrasive at times for any of our Devs to feel comfortable replying. Maybe I just write too much for my peers to bother reading it all to respond. "Words... wordswordswords, great, another Lantus/Rankin post..." I'd like to think my empassioned pleas show a love for my chosen professions. A desire to make them better, more functional. The reality is that I just feel like I'm wizzing into the wind a lot of times after posting some 6k text-bomb on the forums and hitting refresh over and over in the hopes that somebody of like-mind bothered to reply. That frustration stays put more times than not, needless to say.
So I've wasted a chunk of screenspace by listing professions I've played, professions I've grumbled about, and complained that nobody replies to my posts. Its fine if people read me that way, they're entitled to their opinions just as I am. We all pay the same fee every month, and we all have the same rights and responsibilities on the forums. I'd *like* to see more developer responses in our profession forums, but I know there aren't enough of them to keep up with all of us. What I'd *really* like to see is issues-threads broken down by 'section' for each of these Test Center patch notes posts. Why? The signal-to-noise ratio, as seen in any patchnotes that involve jedi or bounty hunters. There are a bunch of relevant posts by players of professions that AREN'T jedi or bounty hunters in the patchnotes for TC-Publish20, but I have a feeling they're *all* wizzing into the wind due to the righteous indignation of the very vocal jedi/bh combat-base. As entertainers we don't stand a chance against that sort of amplified volume, and THAT distresses me. Would entertainer professions be any better off if we actually could get heard? Our Correspondents do their level-headed best with us, and its still not enough. And I don't blame the Corrs for it.
Its really hard to not *want* to blame the messenger, but I realize these fine people are working with what they're given. They're probably not given timetables, the same as the rest of us. We've read enough "they didn't listen!" posts from out-going Correspondents to begin to gain some insight into how broken or non-functional even the Correspondent system is. I think what it comes down to is that we're all just along for the ride, and SOE's just going to plow on ahead with whatever plans they have. They'll give us lip-service that our opinions matter, but in the end... do they? I wouldn't be calling it lip-service if I felt otherwise.
Yankees fans and Red Sox fans. Cubs fansand White Sox fans. Democrats and Republicans. Bounty Hunters and Jedi. Entertainers and Combatants. Imperials and Rebels. Northand South. Redand Blue...
This smells all too familiar in the end. Its time for a little 'Reconstruction' on the forums, or have I gone completely off the deep-end yet again? 
He! SP wise, Ranger is still #1
Lantus wrote:
Sorta sums up the shape of 106 utterly useless skillpoints. Musician is depreciating faster than most cars.
Dariane_Kamutsovy wrote:
He! SP wise, Ranger is still #1
Lantus wrote:
Sorta sums up the shape of 106 utterly useless skillpoints. Musician is depreciating faster than most cars.
*almost alters his sig to something like "Master Pied-piper/Nerf-herder since August '03!"* I feel for the Rangers, and the Smugglers, and the Tailors and Architects. The Armorsmiths, Shipwrights, Chefs, Politicians, Image Designers, Dancers, and those formerly- or still IN the medical professions. I already know the pain of BE's first-hand, likewise that of Merchants, and now finally Musician has taken it in the jewels with the nerf-bat. (I've always been kinda jealous of Weaponsmith profits...)
Aleyo wrote:
I brought it up earlier when these were showed to us as "in development," and I'm definitely bringing it up now. As someone said elsewhere, while props are more extra and not needed for a dancer to dance, instruments are instrumental (ouch, hurt to type that) to our being able to do our music at all.
This change is hurting more than helping because it's very out of place with what we're seeing right now. Just as BF removal doesn't seem to be getting us anything for it's removal - it just seems like a huge nerf. And people are reacting accordingly.
Unfortunately, I think it's too late now, and this should have been thought about morea couple weeks ago.
Reversing this change won't let the people who dropped 0040 Musician get it back.
This was a very poor decision, and I fear it has permanently affected the Musician community at this point.
Don't mean to be all doom and gloom, but honestly - I think this was a HUGE mistake for us.
This stupid decision will also make leveling a Musician much harder. Currently, Musicians play the highest Instrument and whatever song the entire band is capable of playing for best xp gain. When this change goes into effect, those who still want to be Musicians will be playing their highest song rather than their highest Instrument. Forget a band dropping to a lower level song to accomodate a newbie Musician, it will hurt in the xp gain of the higher levels. Even now, there are people who won't do it.
Personally, I think all certs should go in the Knowledge Line, for both Dancers and Musicians.
Warryyr wrote:
Here is just one person this is affecting.
I find changing the 0040 Musician content to requiring 0044 to be a HORRIBLE decision. We deserve NEW content in that branch the Devs have decided to make useless now.
This is insulting. And it's hurting those who had 0040 Musician.
I want answers. Scip, get someone in here to address this bizarre series of changes.
Tiaga wrote:
Maisland wrote:This stupid decision will also make leveling a Musician much harder. Currently, Musicians play the highest Instrument and whatever song the entire band is capable of playing for best xp gain. When this change goes into effect, those who still want to be Musicians will be playing their highest song rather than their highest Instrument. Forget a band dropping to a lower level song to accomodate a newbie Musician, it will hurt in the xp gain of the higher levels. Even now, there are people who won't do it.
Personally, I think all certs should go in the Knowledge Line, for both Dancers and Musicians.
While I agree with other comments in this thread, I'm not sure I agree with this one...
If someone wants to level the fastest, now they will go 0004 instead of 0040. Truthfully, right now the fastest is 4000 by crafting instruments, but that will be moved to 0004 with the changes, and won't be any faster due to the placement of "entertainer" xp. That will give them their highest instrument quicker.
I've always advocated just getting rid of the "must master ASAP" mentality and actually enjoying playing musician. (It's my theory that if more people did that, there would be less AFKers.) But if someone wants to just get to master quicker, I'm not going to step in and stop them. (Though I may attempt to show them that non-master can be fun too.)
On the rest of this thread, as a 0030 musician, this change will effect me. I am going to have to re-think if I'd rather have the music or the instruments. Disappointing? Somewhat. But that character was always a musician dabbler, and as such I never expected to be able to do everything musician. The truth is, music knowledge provided most of the musician profession much the same way CHs used to be able to take 1 line to be able to control most creatures before the CH bonuses were spread out. From a logical perspective, it makes sense that instruments and new music are separate. In RL I'm a music dabbler. I can sort of play the piano and flute. I don't really know any music for the flute, but most music I know on the piano I can play the melody on the flute.
Some dabblers will drop musician certainly. Just like dabblers dropped CH when they could no longer get a good deal on usefullness for skill point investment. In general I think the CH change was good for the game. What makes the musician change different is that people don't feel like they are getting a steal in usefullness for SP investment... They feel like they are getting their money's worth by dabbling just one line for most of musician. So now having to spend up to 14 extra SP for the same level of dabbling doesn't feel like "money's worth" anymore. So the issue here isn't that the skills are being spread out. CH has shown why that can be a good thing. The issue is that musician already doesn't have much meat to it. If there were some real usefulness to musician, I doubt there would be so many upset by this change.
Tiaga, I hear you on all counts. I think though that the issue of XP is a little overstated as people will be going up knowledge and instruments at the same time because one takes Music XP and one takes Entertainer XP. That and both accrue at a much faster rate. XP costs on Entertainer are a little over half the costs for Music XP, but they now accrue at half the rate (or a little less). In my opinion, people will be going up faster now, not slower.
As to the CH comparison, yes that is very true that CH had to deal with a similar change and spreading of skills, however, CH is ....how shall I put this.....Not quite as worthless as musician is with these changes. Yes critters got nerfed a while back, and god knows I lost my favorite pet due to the CU critter level changes, but at least they can do SOMETHING in the greater game. We'll be sitting in the cantina RPing and wondering what ther rest of the game is like. Oh and those 14 extra points for a "dabbler" to keep the same skills are very important when you are also trying to play SOME of the (main) combat game also. We completely agree, we need somehting to compensate....for losing BF healing...and wound healing, and Mind buffs. We have lost and lost and lost......and gotten nothing in return except inspires.....which are only about half useful.
Fragpuppie Uber
Master Musician/Master Entertainer
Message Edited by Fragpuppie on 07-07-2005 04:25 PM
Aleyo wrote:
I brought it up earlier when these were showed to us as "in development," and I'm definitely bringing it up now. As someone said elsewhere, while props are more extra and not needed for a dancer to dance, instruments are instrumental (ouch, hurt to type that) to our being able to do our music at all.
Scipionus, you make me proud. *sniff*
*passes Scipionus some c0f33b33r*