Musician Archive
Thread: How many of these folks are NOT posting about the 0040 Musician nerf?
Lantus wrote:
Dariane_Kamutsovy wrote:
He! SP wise, Ranger is still #1
Lantus wrote:
Sorta sums up the shape of 106 utterly useless skillpoints. Musician is depreciating faster than most cars.
*almost alters his sig to something like "Master Pied-piper/Nerf-herder since August '03!"* I feel for the Rangers, and the Smugglers, and the Tailors and Architects. The Armorsmiths, Shipwrights, Chefs, Politicians, Image Designers, Dancers, and those formerly- or still IN the medical professions. I already know the pain of BE's first-hand, likewise that of Merchants, and now finally Musician has taken it in the jewels with the nerf-bat. (I've always been kinda jealous of Weaponsmith profits...)
Would wecomplain less if all these professions were bug-free before the nerf-pendulum started swinging? Probably not. Then again... maybe it wouldn't *need* to swing so violently if all these systems dovetailed together, without bugs that cause the cessation of profitsin one's bread-and-butter profession. "Working as intended" might make a convenient 'out', but if we have no idea what the intention was in the first place,that statement doesn't engender any truston my behalf.I feel I'm treading on /hijack territory as Warryyr had a point to get across in this thread, it just got me thinking. A little too much, perhaps.
From the sounds of things it looks like you might want to change your sig to match mine instead.
Gknee wrote:
I agree...terrible state of the profession in my opinion. not one "drum" in music knowledge...so you can't even...get by...*sigh*
It is not only that, The droids hold at best 6 songs. being in a cantina I can not quickly switch droids. It is eaiser to record a few more tracks explaining "The bossis telling me it is break timeor something" then start another song.
I will not have the ability to even do that anymore. I can not play the same songs over and over. all the music I play has a begining and a ending all are written for specific instruments and flos. I've always had great results in the cantinas, players enjoyed something differnt then the typical looping grind music.
After the CU myself and friends we all had master entertainer and dance or music. All of us had to drop entertainment, but we did know we would unlock and I was looking forward to being back in the cantin playing when not out exploring or hunting.
I am disappointed andfeel let down. I am tired of changing and being told "take a break" "we are looking into that" "we are not healers" "It is a social profession".
Musichas always effectedthe mind, that is not healingit is relaxing! sit back recover from your fatigue.
Playing music is not socializing it is performing it is a art a profession. Why is it not here anymore?
Maisland wrote:This stupid decision will also make leveling a Musician much harder. Currently, Musicians play the highest Instrument and whatever song the entire band is capable of playing for best xp gain. When this change goes into effect, those who still want to be Musicians will be playing their highest song rather than their highest Instrument. Forget a band dropping to a lower level song to accomodate a newbie Musician, it will hurt in the xp gain of the higher levels. Even now, there are people who won't do it.
Personally, I think all certs should go in the Knowledge Line, for both Dancers and Musicians.
While I agree with other comments in this thread, I'm not sure I agree with this one...
If someone wants to level the fastest, now they will go 0004 instead of 0040. Truthfully, right now the fastest is 4000 by crafting instruments, but that will be moved to 0004 with the changes, and won't be any faster due to the placement of "entertainer" xp. That will give them their highest instrument quicker.
I've always advocated just getting rid of the "must master ASAP" mentality and actually enjoying playing musician. (It's my theory that if more people did that, there would be less AFKers.) But if someone wants to just get to master quicker, I'm not going to step in and stop them. (Though I may attempt to show them that non-master can be fun too.)
On the rest of this thread, as a 0030 musician, this change will effect me. I am going to have to re-think if I'd rather have the music or the instruments. Disappointing? Somewhat. But that character was always a musician dabbler, and as such I never expected to be able to do everything musician. The truth is, music knowledge provided most of the musician profession much the same way CHs used to be able to take 1 line to be able to control most creatures before the CH bonuses were spread out. From a logical perspective, it makes sense that instruments and new music are separate. In RL I'm a music dabbler. I can sort of play the piano and flute. I don't really know any music for the flute, but most music I know on the piano I can play the melody on the flute.
Some dabblers will drop musician certainly. Just like dabblers dropped CH when they could no longer get a good deal on usefullness for skill point investment. In general I think the CH change was good for the game. What makes the musician change different is that people don't feel like they are getting a steal in usefullness for SP investment... They feel like they are getting their money's worth by dabbling just one line for most of musician. So now having to spend up to 14 extra SP for the same level of dabbling doesn't feel like "money's worth" anymore. So the issue here isn't that the skills are being spread out. CH has shown why that can be a good thing. The issue is that musician already doesn't have much meat to it. If there were some real usefulness to musician, I doubt there would be so many upset by this change.
ThreeTimesOneMinusOne wrote:
Lantus wrote:
Dariane_Kamutsovy wrote:
He! SP wise, Ranger is still #1
Lantus wrote:
Sorta sums up the shape of 106 utterly useless skillpoints. Musician is depreciating faster than most cars.
*almost alters his sig to something like "Master Pied-piper/Nerf-herder since August '03!"* I feel for the Rangers, and the Smugglers, and the Tailors and Architects. The Armorsmiths, Shipwrights, Chefs, Politicians, Image Designers, Dancers, and those formerly- or still IN the medical professions. I already know the pain of BE's first-hand, likewise that of Merchants, and now finally Musician has taken it in the jewels with the nerf-bat. (I've always been kinda jealous of Weaponsmith profits...)
Would wecomplain less if all these professions were bug-free before the nerf-pendulum started swinging? Probably not. Then again... maybe it wouldn't *need* to swing so violently if all these systems dovetailed together, without bugs that cause the cessation of profitsin one's bread-and-butter profession. "Working as intended" might make a convenient 'out', but if we have no idea what the intention was in the first place,that statement doesn't engender any truston my behalf.I feel I'm treading on /hijack territory as Warryyr had a point to get across in this thread, it just got me thinking. A little too much, perhaps.
From the sounds of things it looks like you might want to change your sig to match mine instead.
- I support revamping the following things: Smuggler, Ranger, The Galactic Civil War, Commando, Jedi (Yet Again), Language System, Player Cities, Droid Engineer, Battlefields, Squad Leader, The Bestine Political Quests, Armorsmith, Dancer, The Unfinished Loot Revamp, Musician, Usage XP, Politician, POI Dungeons, Doctor, Themeparks, Creature Handler, Merchant, and Pharples.
Mmmm, point. Is it the squeaky wheel that gets the grease? The evidence is depressing on that count, and I'm not going to point any (more) fingers at vocal professions. I think its pretty safe to say we've ALL had/have issues throughout the last two years. It would seem prudent to me, if I were a developer, to scour the forums for opinions - things to avoid, things to devote development resources to in a prioritized list based on community feedback, to explain concisely to the community when an idea it has just can't possibly BE coded to work the way the community wants it under SWG's current code-base (rather than ignore such threads entirely), to explain a bit of the behind-the-scenes process so the community isn't left twisting in the wind wondering why things a) take to long, and b) come entirely too fast.
We've seen at least one complete shakeup of the development staff. We still don't even know how many devs there are. I'd love to see a staff directory, broken down by department. Their RL "credits" names and their forum names. ((Here's where that idea gets smacked down -- we of the 'mundane' crowd are supposed to work with our Correspondents, and such a list would open those developers up to direct contact by players. They might not phrase it the same way, but that's the effect of refusing to tell us.)) Why do I want a staff list? Good question.
If people are making decisions behind the scenes, be it in the marketing department, among the live team developers, the top-secret 'special projects' branch, or where ever, often times we as players get the impression that those decisions are set in quick-drying cement. Maybe not quite stone yet, but close enough that we often miss an opportunity to alter the course of development before things are way too far along to change without having to contend with the reality of wasted manhours and budget. This is corporate thinking at its absolute worst, ESPECIALLY in light of working with a licensed product - a license the fans and players have "owned" long before Sony signed any dotted lines to work with it legally. No, we fanbois and fangrrls have no legal leg to stand on. We sign that EULA every time we login to the game. We know every last little word we post on these forums becomes the immediate property of Sony Online Entertainment. I dunno about you guys, but I'm a little tired of being an "unpaid consultant" in this manner. I'd like my words to have a little weight somewhere, and not just get rubber-stamped (with the "pwned!" stamp, even) and filed into some alleged 'archive' for future gaming-archaeologists to sift through.
I'm not going to comment further on this issue because it's made me far too annoyed.
I understand our changes need to be phased in, but this is the WORST way possible to be doing this. It's a nerf, plain and simple, and for little to no compensation. A new song and a few particle effects? Whoopity-doo.
Thanks for the nerf, SOE. Thanks for letting 0040 Musicians drop like flies, without even batting an eyelash.
You'd better have one HELLUVA payoff for all of this.
)My Musician is currently "on leave", keeping his respec token to come back to the musician profession (you know, to be able to actually survive some deep exploration of Kashyyyk and stuff)... I hope they don't manage to destroy what's left of envy to get my mandoviol back to buziness heh
A) Drop a line of TKA, bringing my Combat Level down below 60 so I can no longer meditate or use Instant Stim D's. I may as well drop all Combat if I do this, as I am mostly a solo player at the moment in combat, and this will make it four times as hard to kill anything my level.
B) Keep my current template and lose the ability to use the instruments I love.
Either way, my template is ruined, and neither side of myself (Combat or Entertainer) reaps ANY reward. In fact, one half of my ability list is neutered as an Entertainer, with the "promise" that something more MAY be coming. Sometime. Not now. But eventually.
I want the ten songs Julio Torres told Wired.com about, and I want our new buffs, and I want the "can't watch because the devs are too busy fixing more combat bugs" bug GONE.
I am spiteful and confrontational because the developers did not hold true to the "Please give us 30 days and we will address all of your CU concerns" that Tiggs told us the night before the CU went live. It's been over 90 days now, and my favorite profession and in game activity continues to be lowered...and lowered...and lowered.
Can we get an answer to why BF was removed now? Honestly, did they just need a new Publish and decided to fluff the patch notes with our demise? I just want to know why this was even an option they CONSIDERED.
There's also the two-sounds-between-six-horns issue. Yeah, you'd lose the ommni box, bandfill, chidinkalu horn, and traz (maybe), but you'd still have the kloo, fanfar, fizzz, and slitherhorn. You lose drums/bass completely, but losing the horns is no big deal - you get the same sounds from the entertainer ones. UNLESS (how much stuff do you have HIDDEN in your behind, Warr?) they're actually giving every instrument its own individual sound at some point in the future. Again, its too soon to be nerfing everything else with only the 'promise' of future payoff - we remain in the same dinky little boat, with only nerfs to plug the holes.
As things stand at the moment, there's a long stretch of barren instrument schematics that are unneeded (except for cosmetic reasons). For MUSICIANS at least (Master Entertainer's another matter entirely), you get the slither and fizz at Novice Ent and Musicianship 1 Rock (entertainer). Beyond that, you "need" none of them until you get to Musical Knowledge IV and Master Musician for the ommni box and nalargon, respectively. For the instruments, everything else in between isn't necessary to have access to the SOUNDS. I don't know anybody that prefers to play the ommni when the bandfill spits out the same sound due to the targetinghassles involvedwith ommnis (and nalargons), so that one's up for debate. The rest though.. Hey, i have hope. The fixed exotic1-4 AFTER TWO YEARS. Maybe we'll get all ten instruments sounds to actually BE all TEN instrument sounds.... one of these days.
*wanders off to get 'Real Soon Now' tattooed to the insides of his eyelids*
Warryyr wrote:
You'd better have one HELLUVA payoff for all of this.
Im my role of forum pessimist I need to now interject......
Ya, right!
I would make predictions, but I fear some dev would see that as a request.
Fragpuppie Uber
Master Entertainer, Master Musician
Founding Member - Frag's Puppies
President and CEO - Fragpuppie Enterprises and Uber Instruments
Coronet, Corellia, Chilastra
Honestly, I wouldn't recommend dropping your combat skills. As you said, you're gonna want meditate and stim use.
You'll just to choose between limited instrument use, but more song access - or less songs, and more instruments to choose from.
It's not an easy decision, but apparently it's one the Devs feel they must subject us to.
Of course, you could also completely drop Musician and put those skill points into something else.
The ONLY reason I can see why this would be necessary - and I'm TOTALLY pulling this out of my behind right now - is that maybe, just maybe, instrument and song combinations could factor into buffing in the future, and having all of those certs in only one skill branch would be too valuable for too little skillpoint investment.
However, if they were really doing that, the time to move the instruments over would be when the new buffs are READY, not this early, so that people flip out when they just see and out and out NERF and just drop all Musician completely. And I think a lot of people took the flip out route, or just said it's not worth it anymore.
Message Edited by Warryyr on 07-08-2005 02:22 PM
Fragpuppie wrote:
Warryyr wrote:
You'd better have one HELLUVA payoff for all of this.
Im my role of forum pessimist I need to now interject......
Ya, right!
I would make predictions, but I fear some dev would see that as a request.
/secretlyAgree
/lurk