Musician Archive
Thread: Either the Buffbots go or our profession is doomed.
There was a time when a buff was a nice thing to have but it certainly didn't stop you from playing if you didn't have one. Now people justify these buff bots and feel they can't even play without them. No need to drink down a 10k brandy over the course of a few hours when a buffbot is available thats free.
These buffbots are having devestating effects on our cantinas. Cities and fighting guilds see these things as a draw so they don't really care of their effects on the entertainers proffessions.Each buffbot is drawing aways hundreds of customers a day and that number is growing as more buffbots are put into service.
I suppose SOE is torn because each buffbot is also another account but at the same time, the draw for female players in SOE is also being syphoned away by these buffbots, at least the females into the more social RP aspects of SWG.
Its a double edged sword. As an entertainer I will not go into an establishment that has a buffbot running. At the same time, they would not run a buffbotif they had real entertainers. Of course they would want you to be there 24-7 and since that is impossible, the buffbot isn't going anywhere. So its become a buffbot or go elsewhere.
Iam an entertainer and the city in which I live has a buffbot in one of the city cantinas. It leaves me feeling that I am not even needed in this city, why even bother, they don't deserve me exerting any kind of creative energy, let them go to their stinking bot. These bots will put us out of business, what will be left for us?
Although I didn't like the speedbuff, it at least took a live entertainer and allowed us to compete with the buffs.With it removed I have now noticed less people again in the cantinas, they are being drawn back to the bots as we offer no advantage to peoplewho couldn't care less about us, they just want thier buff so they can go get back to their game. These are the same people who resented us because they accumulated battle fatigue and had to come to us, but now the stakes are much larger.
SOE gave us the ability to buff to enhance our profession, not to create buffbots. As it stands now we are better off if the buffs were removed from the game as it would remove the buffbots and drive people back to the cantinas at least for heals... When entertaining becomes purely an RP venture, it will be the end of our field as no one is going to expend all the skill points needed for a purely RP thing that provides no form of income.
Either the buffbots go or it is the end of our profession as we know it. If it is not done soon, it will be too late as more and more buffbots are put into service. We need to make this loud and clear to SOE or it will be too late, we are being replaced at an alarming rate.
Warryyr wrote:
There is a problem with this. First of all, I think you're being just a tad melodramatic. In general, in large city cantinas, people ignore (no matter what) AFK entertainers.
Second of all, so many entertainers seem in denial that the profession they are playing is a service profession. You're providing a service through buffing.
I would say cities have every right to run buffbots as a draw, they're providing a service. It's as simple as that. Does it mean the end of the entertainer because RandomCity, Naboo has a buffbot running 24-7? Will everyone on the server run to RandomCity, Naboo just for a free mind buff? No. Buffs are very much a matter of convenience. Sure, the new players might take advantage, they have no money. as they get more cash, they'll visit the live performers closest to them at a given moment because it's convenience and time vs. cost - and convenience usually wins. This is the concept that's kept convenience stores in business for decades - you could go to the grocery store to save $1 on that milk, or get it in 2 minutes at the gas station - when you want it, waddya do?
AFKmacrotaining and buffbots do destroy the profession. We are a service-oriented people, but we have to stay in business too. When the buffbots and macrotainers are in cantinas it lowers not only respect for entertainers, but it also directly affects our income.
I don't know what you're talking about with the whole convenience thing, I happen to be a person who peruses the shopping ads obsessively. I figure in whether it will cost me more in gasto drive across town and save 5 cents on something I need. I am always looking for the lowest price, best deal, etc. I'm the type of person who will go buy ten Big Macs when they're on sale for $1.00 and then I'll freeze them and eat them later when the price returns to 2 or 3 bucks whatever they cost now. If people did put convenience ahead of money as you say, then they wouldn't have nearly as much money as they do. Even in this overinflated in-game economy we have I'll always go for the deal over the convenience. Browsing the bazaar I might see a crate of stim b's for6000 credits in the same city I'm at but at a planet 500 credits away there is an identical crate of stim b's for 5000 credits. If I'm in the market for stim b's I'll defenitely head over to the other planet.
The only time I do not choose a deal over convenience is when it comes to people who are exploiting the system with game-ruining play. (for example people who are duping credits, macrotaining, or camping static spawns) I will never utilize these peoples services regardless of how strapped for credits I am. Since some people don't have the same ideas I have about dealing with exploiters, they will indeed go for the deal over the convenience. If its a question between paying a live entertainer 5000 credits for a buff or waiting 5 minutes to catch a 150 credit shuttleride to a buffbot I daresay (sadly)many people will choose the buffbot.
First off i would like to say i dont think he is being melodramatic at all. Its the real state of affairs at this point. And its not just in Cantinas in player cities. Its spilling into NPC locales too. Coronet...theed Yavin....Dathomir....endor...Dantooine. ITs am epidemic. Go check out some of the galaxies forums.
Some people are even advertising on the galaxies forums that they have a buff bot running at a location. I even read somewhere that some are even setting up camps now near POI's to get traffic to the bots. Its getting far to out of hand now. Even people that were die hard atk entertainers are now buying second accounts and having there entertainer account as a personal buff machine.
Frankly its gotten to the point where alot of master entertainers just give up.How do you compete with an automaton? Sure for purely entertainment value a live performer wins hands down. But this whole buffing issue what is ruining this portion of the game for alot of people.
Frankly imo it was much better for entertainment industry in this game when we couldnt buff. The fact that we can now has just made it easier for people to exploit the game mechanics in their favor without stepping over the line of an actual cheat.
Now people buying second account just so they can have a buff whenever they feel like it wherever they feel like it. This alone causes problems, thats why orginally the devs decided to make it single character per server on a single account. To get rid of "Mules"
But because of the current game tools people are creating the worst kind of mules. Ones that actually break down the game as it was intended to be played. I really dont think when the system was designed that the developers actually sat down in a meeting and said "Hey...lets create a character profession thats only function is to go afk for days at a time so people can get buffs where ever they want"
Somehow i doubt this discussion ever took place. You know why? Cause the way entertainers are being treated as a whole now. When someone makes a buff bot..or any kind of afk automaton what the community is really saying is...i really dont value this profession except for what it can give me so i can push the envelope in combat. Well frankly this line of thinking really makes me irritated, sure we buff...but we arent just there for buffs. We were meant to entertain. Both of these things were supposed to go hand in hand. But somewhere along the line the game mechanics..and the intent the developers had for these professions got lost. Its been degraded into nothing of what it was supposed to be.
The idea that you can find an afk buffbot almost anywhere in the game should tell you that there is problems. The system just wasnt intended to be exploited in this fashion. People argue over and over that well its there so use it. Its a game tool that the devs gave us it must be ok. Well my friend there are alot of tools the developers gave us that werent being used correctly in the scheme of the design documentation. So in the end it got hit with the nerf bat quick and hard. This influx of afk buff bots is no different sure the tools are there, but they are being used in a way that the developers never ever intended...so sooner or later the nerfbat is gonna be taking a swing. I just hope it doesnt take to long, or its gonna be really hard on the combat classes. Cause there wont be enough REAL entertainers to go around until the next batch of entertainers comes thru the ranks. We will be spread so thin that it will cause even bigger problems.
I just hope that with the Jedi Revamp alot of the afk entertainers and buff bots will dissapear, but i know thats just wishful thinking The only way to truly deal with this problem is two ways.
1) Remove the ability to buff from the entertainer profession entirely. That way there is no reason for a buffbot to exsist. OR
2) Remove the tools that afk buff bots use to afk buff. That way they cant have bot mules.
Either of these two above will work, which will the devs choose down the road? I dont know. I am hoping its number 2. But if it isnt i will still play an entertainer and still have fun doing it. Regardless
Ceta
Kip1 wrote:
This shows how out of touch I am right now, but Buffbots? What is a buffbot? I had no idea you could get free buffs (though it doesnt matter, my guildy buffs us)
A buffbot is a LAMer (Long-term AFK Macrotainer) who has discovered how to exploit the in-game macro system in order to perform entertainment buffs while AFK.
This term was coined by the professional entertainment community to quickly describe these computer-driven buffers.
It is not normally intended for people to receive free buffs from a buffbot and most of them spam a series of directions including one demanding payment.However, since the buffbot has no way of knowing whether or not credits have been dropped into its slot, there is no way for it to enforce payment.
Message Edited by Tralmek on 04-29-2004 12:41 PM
Civil_CH wrote:
I don't mean to ruffle and feathers, however I can't count the number of times Ive been to a non-buffbot city and couldn't find a Master Dancer or Musician in order to get a buff. When I did finally find one, they wouldn't return any of my messages. I'm sorryto those of you who aretrying to earn a living and finding it difficult due to buffbots, howeverI for one am extremely thankful they are there.
Civil_CH, of course you are happy they are there. Why wouldn't you be? They are convenient for you. They are convenient for a lot of people. They never get tired, they never get cranky, they are reliable and you know they will be there whenever you need a buff. In short, they are everything a live entertainer cannot be. And that is why I can't compete with them.
I was not exaggerating, I see buffbots completely replacing our profession as they are already doing for hundreds of players a night already. And like the example I stated with the buffbot in my home town, no, I'm not going to play in a cantina with a buffbot. Some of us take our chosen proffesion serious enough to still have some self respect. Why would we bother to entertain in a cantina with a buffbot running? The buffbot shows total disrespect to live entertainers. AFK entertainers is one thing, but a buffbot takes away the bonus SOE gave us when they gave us the ability to buff. To a lot of people, a buffbot is a godsend, there is no need for a live entertainer anymore, we have been replaced by a machine. Who even needs to attract an entertainer to a city anymore, someone will just let their lot mule go afk as a buffbot. And don't even start with it not effecting our business, it has and its replacing us.
As an entertainer I am running out of options. There is no need for me in my home town and even running to Theed thinking there would be some business there was disappointing as demand for live entertainers has taken a sharp decline. And its getting worst as more buffbots are coming on-line on a daily basis with no end to them in sight.
Personally I am not happy being driven out of a profession I chose to play in this game. But there will always be people who will defend the buffbots and feel the ends justifies the means, and just don't care if it hurts the people who actually wanted to play these entertainment professions. I have talked to them and they don't care, period.
Message Edited by Mariki on 04-29-2004 01:32 PM
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Sylune_heart wrote:
I just hope that with the Jedi Revamp alot of the afk entertainers and buff bots will dissapear, but i know thats just wishful thinking The only way to truly deal with this problem is two ways.
1) Remove the ability to buff from the entertainer profession entirely. That way there is no reason for a buffbot to exsist. OR
2) Remove the tools that afk buff bots use to afk buff. That way they cant have bot mules.
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I have to start out by saying that I am not an AFK entertainer in general, and I have never run a buffbot. Now having said that, I think that posts that give drastic ultimatums like this are way off base.
First off, the buff is a valuable and often necessary part of the game. It allows me to be compensated for the time I spend in the cantina (heaven knows I don't get tipped for actual healing), and gives the players a stronger desire to come in and listen. Chef foods are easier to obtain than buffs, and although expensive, are quick. I give something that is durable and relatively cheap for roughly three minutes of thier time. Hopefully in that amount of time I can crack jokes or make them laugh. Without actively denying service to everyone in the room, I have no other hope or means of getting paid to entertain.
Secondly, even when I am live, I run macros for music. I spend a lot of time getting my macro to sound good for a particular song, and I set up band macros and solo macros (mostly band macros now that I have a backup droid). I rarely let the music hit blue notes, which is something I can't do manually and still hold a conversation. How can you possibly get rid of any kind of macro without ruining my fun? Don't ever ruin my fun!
The problem truthfully stems from the fact that we produce no tangible goods. We don't have a means to employ entertainment without letting everyone have it (no easy way, anyway). So how do they solve this in the real world?
1) Marketable items -- Bands or individual performers sell CD's, shirts, hats, and other goods commonly referred to as "merchandise". We should have this.
2) Cover Charge -- when you buy a ticket to a show, or you pay the doorman a cover charge, this lets you get your live entertainment, and you pay before you get it. You pay or you don't get in the door.
Now these things in and of themselves don't fix the problem just yet. But if our services were tied to some sort of tangible property, then you couldn't AFK it. If we had to manufacture CD's to give buffs (holograms, if you will), then we would be on a closer level to doctors in that regard. If we had to accept a cover charge each time someone was to listen (you have to stamp thier hand when they give you the money), then you can't AFK it.
This in my opinion gets rid of AFK and at the same time lets us get more income, and I daresay if it was done right, it would be fun. If "merchandise" were something that you got rights to by doing entertainer quests, then it could be fun. What if we got to "license" shirts for tailors to make, for instance (we make an item that tailors use in a special shirt, and we determine colors or something), and maybe that gives a bonus to healing when they listen to us?
All I am saying is that there are surely some methods of fixing the problem without making it worse for those of us who are musicians just for the chicks.
Sinjen, I don't think Sylune was saying we should do away with the macro system entirely...no entertainer wants to see that happen (to my knowledge anyway) because we almost all use it to enhance our performances. I have lots of macros for various instruments and songs, flourishes and effects, and the removal of the macro system would mean I'd have to be able to type these in real time and hope that I was counting seconds correctly to be prepared for the next one--my audience interaction would be greatly affected. Macros are our tools, they are like electric saws...if you're good, you can do beautiful things with them.
The problem comes when people AFK macro. This is something not intended by the Devs and which is also game-breaking. Unfortunately, the only solution may be to "nerf" macros and remove the ability to loop them. After all, when you leave the electric saw from the previous illustration running, there's no telling what harm can come. It may be somewhat inconvenient, but overall the safest thing may be to make it so you can no longer keep the tool running long-term.
To twist a popular phrase of the times: Macros don't kill entertainers, macrotainers kill entertainers.
Civil_CH wrote:
I don't mean to ruffle and feathers, however I can't count the number of times Ive been to a non-buffbot city and couldn't find a Master Dancer or Musician in order to get a buff. When I did finally find one, they wouldn't return any of my messages. I'm sorryto those of you who aretrying to earn a living and finding it difficult due to buffbots, howeverI for one am extremely thankful they are there.
I completely agree here. I cant tell you how hard it is to get mind buffs from people on my server. If I knew these buffbots were out there, Id have been using them lol. Unless it is truly and exploit, which I dont think it is. Get more musicians and dancers buffing, and I will agree to get rid of the buffbots.
So, the Coronet Cantina isn't as wholesome a place as it used to be? Well, tough luck. Things change, game mechanics change, and different people are playing the game.
You want live customer interaction? You want to be appreciated? Then get off your mandovial and head out to one of the outer planets. Go to one of those seedy run-down cantinas, and play your heart out to the noobies that went out there, and now don't have the credits to get back home, and think that a 100 credit tip is extravagant, because they only have 200 credits to their name. Or play to the groups that are coming through, that didn't want to take the time for a mind buff, because by the time they got out there it would be almost a quarter gone. After all, you're not doing it for the credits, because you are complaining about the purity of the profession, right? Are you musicians, are you artists, are you plying your craft? Or are you just complaining because you aren't making as many credits as you used to?
AFKing isn't the evil. Lack of imagination is the evil.