Musician Archive
Thread: Mandoviol and Ceremonial
i'll apologize now for the snarky tone of my post ...
Imcus' idea of moving all the special effects to Master Entertainer isa good one. here are some others that i've seen suggested:
- party favor schematics for one-use special effects that anyone could use
- animations for tumbling (cartwheels, backflips, tumble-to-kneeling etc.)
- Tell Joke which makes the targetted character animate laughter
- Dance Invitation which allows the invited character to dance even if they have no dancing skill
i'm sure we can think of more : )
there is a very specific reason that those coveted Master Brawler skills are not included in Master TKA, and why they cost more skill points to get. it has to do with game balance. the basic idea is that if a player invests a certain number of skill points in one area they should have about as much "power" as a different player who spends the same amount of points somewhere else. the "power" might be in different areas ... Master TKA and Master Weaponsmith, for example ... but should be about the same in terms of in-game results and the experience of the players.
so it was decided that the Master TKA line should not include Lunge 2, Warcry 2, and Berserk 2 because that would make the class *overpowered for the amount of skill points invested*. it would unbalance the gameplay because other players who invested the same amount of skill points would not be as powerful.
so i have to ask ... why is a Musician who can play all the songs and instruments *so* overpowered that it requires the mastery of two full classes?
answer: they aren't. there is no critical game balance issue being addressed by putting musician and dancer skills on Master Entertainer.
another player who learns *one* line of Artisan and *one* elite profession (Weaponsmith) can make the most powerful weapons in the game. Master Weaponsmiths are the true rock stars in SWG, they are celebrities, they have their own fan bases that pour money on them until they scream *stop*.
Musicians have to learn *two* lines of Entertainer to get started on their elite profession, and then after they finish Musician that they still don't have all the musical abilities.
why?
unless you can answer that in terms of *game balance*, then there is no good reason.
"sure, the mando is kickass, and ceremonial is nice too, but if you replace it with something else, then what have you?"
you have *something else*. i know people are resistant to change, but this change makes sense. Master Entertainer should have its own rewards. there is no good reason it should have Musician rewards.
"Why should a particular class get everything just from mastering one elite profession?"
because it is intuitive. it is logical. it makes sense. ask Weaponsmiths. or Droidheads. or Tailors or Chefs. or Image Designers. or Armorsmiths.
i asked my Master Weaponsmith friend how he would like it if they put some really cool weapon on Master Artisan and not within the Weaponsmith tree. he turned pale and gagged. i explained that it was wrong for a particular class to get everything from mastering one elite profession. he chased me with a baseball bat but i was able to outrun him.
the real question is not why Master Musicians should get all the instruments and songs ... it makes perfect game design sense that they would ... the real question is why they should *not* get all the instruments and songs.
the only good answer is that if they did get all the instruments and songs, they would somehow be overpowered.
but they wouldn't.
"Be happy that the 2 lines of entertainer you need to fill are both in the entertainer profession. You could be, for instance, like a BE and have to use one line in medic and one in scout."
please don't ask me to explain the current game design of Bio-Engineers. personally, i think they are about as powerful as other crafting classes and the added skill point requirement is unnecessary.
I would like to see the ability to place a cantina and theatre be put in Master Entertainer exclusivly. I would like the Master entertainer to be able to craft Speakers, Microphones, and other special furniture pieces that fit those 2 buildings.
I would like to see a new skill (/hush)given to ME that allows them to target a rude customer and give that playeran effect that does not allow his /say or /shout commands to show up for 15 minutes, or until they leave the building.
In effect make ME the well rounded cantina owner and theatre owner. Then give the dance and music specials to the specialists.
because it is intuitive. it is logical. it makes sense. ask Weaponsmiths. or Droidheads. or Tailors or Chefs. or Image Designers. or Armorsmiths.
i asked my Master Weaponsmith friend how he would like it if they put some really cool weapon on Master Artisan and not within the Weaponsmith tree. he turned pale and gagged. i explained that it was wrong for a particular class to get everything from mastering one elite profession. he chased me with a baseball bat but i was able to outrun him.
This is true, crafters get to make the best stuff, but some of them need to rely on another profession to get subcomponents. Combat types and crafter types are different in this regard. Elite crafters get all the perks, whereas combat types don't. Entertainers are in a different world than both of these.
the real question is not why Master Musicians should get all the instruments and songs ... it makes perfect game design sense that they would ... the real question is why they should *not* get all the instruments and songs.
Actually, its doesn't make perfect game design sense in the way that SWG is designed. Almost all professions have to give on something, except for crafters. As to why they should not get all instruments and songs, well someday there will be a total revamp of entertainers and you may get your wish. Most likely, they had no idea how to make master enterainers viable, so they threw in a couple of things from musicians and dancers. ID was totally left out. Makes you wonder a bit.
the only good answer is that if they did get all the instruments and songs, they would somehow be overpowered.
but they wouldn't.
No they wouldn't, because entertainers are a breed of their own. I don't think anyone would complain about this. Those musicians who have mastered entertainer could save a lot of skill points. Master entertainer is such a bum profession that only the die hard entertainers ever get this. Imagine if they took out the most important reason (mandoviol/ceremonial) and put in even some of the suggestions people have been saying here. How many people would actually want to master it? Dancers might say the same thing. "We want all dances in the dancer tree. Now what does master enterainer have? More colored lights, firestorms...boring. This is why someday, not anytime soon, Entertainers will be revamped to some degree.
please don't ask me to explain the current game design of Bio-Engineers. personally, i think they are about as powerful as other crafting classes and the added skill point requirement is unnecessary.
I didn't ask you to explain. You seemed slightly upset that musicians had to fill 2 lines of entertainer, whereas in the post about TKA, they only have to go up 1 line of brawler. I just happened to mention BE having to use 2 different professions to get to novice BE. There are several other professions that also have to have 1 line in 2 different starter professions.
Naphtoe wrote:
I would like to see the ability to place a cantina and theatre be put in Master Entertainer exclusivly. I would like the Master entertainer to be able to craft Speakers, Microphones, and other special furniture pieces that fit those 2 buildings.
I would like to see a new skill (/hush)given to ME that allows them to target a rude customer and give that playeran effect that does not allow his /say or /shout commands to show up for 15 minutes, or until they leave the building.
In effect make ME the well rounded cantina owner and theatre owner. Then give the dance and music specials to the specialists.
That is a nice idea, but keep mando and ceremonial in ME. Why? because it is common sense. All masters get something for everything. "ooh but we are MASTER musicians" So? even master musicians like uhhhh John Williams, cant play a rockin Aerosmith song on an electric guitar. Vice Versa too. ^^^^^ that up there would make it more worth while 
Also i wasted a lotta time getting it, and if they change it, all who did dance and Id will be POed........
