Musician Archive
Thread: recursive macros.. a good thing?
Are the entertainers whoare demanding arecursive macro ban really thinking this through? Don't you guys want to be able to talk to other peeps in the cantina while playing music? Do you guys really want to turn the entertainer professions into combat professions where you have totap buttons every other second? The entertainer professions are meant to be social --they're for a more laid back playstyle. Let's keep it that way.
I understand that people are angry about buff bots, but there are many other ways to tackle that problem without taking a huge ability from not only us but from the rest of the player base.
Why do entertainers hate buff bots? They take money out of our pockets. Let's think of creative ways that would bring us more money in a system where buff bots could still exist. I think the easiest way (and probably the least creative of ways) for the devs to counter this money issue is to raise the pay outs of entertainer missions.
Please don't make the devs nerf us anymore!
Jimi Hendrix
Tarq
- it is quite often accompanied by spam, which is harmful to the cantina experience, and there's no way to convince the person to stop (since they're not there).
- it gives the impression that all entertainers are AFK, which leads to things like players treating live entertainers as if they aren't there and are part of the problem (and not worthy of tips).
- it gives the impression that the profession is cheap, since it can be done without any actual work. This is contrary to anyone who *does* master live, as it is one of the professions that has traditionally taken the longest to master in terms of actual time played (obviously the CU has changed a lot of things). This leads to lack of respect.
- many other things.
In any case, the "great Satan" of entertainers is actually AFK play, and long ago, that was what you'd see the posts focus on. However, since the devs have made posts saying that they intended to remove recursive macros, as a means to removing AFK play, many posts have now focused on the dev-'approved' version of attaking the problem, as it would presumably be the one that has the most possibility of actually happening. You'll see many posts, probably some responses here, saying that many entertainers would love to keep recursive macros and have some other means of getting rid of AFK play. It's just a matter of it being what was proposed to be done about it that we support it (and often reluctantly).
To address some of your concerns though, in case it does come to pass that recursive macros disappear, just because macros can't be recursive doesn't mean they can't be long, meaning that you'd have to tap buttons probably only every half hour or so, not every other second as you fear. This wouldn't be harmful toward being laid back or chatting.
As for mission payout, we certainly do want it to be increased, and missions made more interesting, but due to the fact that mission payouts were recently increased a few months ago, and they were only raised to the levels they are at now, my *guess* is that we won't see more changes there until something more drastic is done to the entertainer mission system. It is on our issues list though, so maybe they'll be bumped again, who knows.
Thanks for responding so fast, Aleyo!
Why not just add those buff bots to ignore? I realize the ignore lists are only so big, but why not petition the devs to add more slots to our ignore lists?
I guess a lotof you don't singwhile you rock, but I do. My songs take up more space then what is alotted, so I have to break the songs up. So when I sing "Hey Joe", there's actually 4 macros at work. 1 for the song (which plays a few bars and repeats) and the other 3 for different lyrics in the song. Without recursive macros my music won't work. Would you have that on your concience? 
I've never come across people assuming I was afk when I wasn't so I can't really comment on that. But, if tips (credits) are what you're concerned about then how about that mission pay out idea? (which I've seen posted before but not nearly enough)
And about that thing about other professions thinking we're cheap because we can afk through musician... Who cares what they think??? Seriously, you're willing to get rid of such a useful skill because of other professions' preceptions!?! If they give you sass about it, just tell them that they're more than welcome to join the entertainer community if they think it's easy. The more the merrier!
The overall theme I'm going for is: why don't we ask for things to be added to our profession instead of asking for things to be taken away?
And NJ62, I believe this is the right forum. My postis talking about how the recursive macroban would affect me as a musician, although I did refer in a sentenceto everyone having something to lose in the instance of a ban, that wasn't the focus. And as for the idea about contributing to the buff bot thread, I don'tthink it belongs there either for the same reasons above.If you still feel like those other forums/threads would benefitfrommy post, you're more than welcome to repost it there!
IcePirate840 wrote:
I guess a lotof you don't singwhile you rock, but I do. My songs take up more space then what is alotted, so I have to break the songs up. So when I sing "Hey Joe", there's actually 4 macros at work. 1 for the song (which plays a few bars and repeats) and the other 3 for different lyrics in the song. Without recursive macros my music won't work. Would you have that on your concience?
That really is not correct. You should look into using a alias file and do away with the macros.
The song I write I need to flourish each instrument and writing that out in game would be a pain. I can not remember where a good guide is for alias files, I am sure if you use the search (on a less forum laggy day) you can find them.
I do not loop any songs I play to me it seems when doing that there is no begining or ending. I also try to use a flourish to mathc certain words in the song. So I take days sometimes weeks to write out a song I like. But the finished product is much more entertaining then just looping a few repeating musical bars then macroing the words.
IcePirate840 wrote:
Tammylynn, you just made it on to my Christmas card list! Thanks for tipping me off on thealias stuff! This will be alot easier to add more songs -- plus I no longer fear the recursive macro ban.But you guys will find that a cantina full of afkers is better than an empty one! They'll feel as cold as those horrible image designer tents...
haha. I will not get into that argument.
The problem with image design tents is stat migration is no more, and they removed the time penality so basicly they (the tents) were made usless. It is too bad I hope they make them usefull at some time, example race changes.
I'm afraid I have to disagree...I'd rather be in a deserted cantina than one full of spamming zombies. Even adding them to Ignore doesn't make the sea of bodies go away, and it's just creepy when you know they're not interacting with anything.
The alias file directions were written by Tiaga, the former Entertainer Correspondent. I believe it's in that forum. Searching yields the result that "there are too many searches in progress" so I can't say exactly where. I think it was stickified at one point in the Ent forum.
I found this in a post when I searched for "alias" and "file", does this look right to you alias users?
>>>
Check out the fansites on the main webpage here, links to great guides... here's a snippet on the how to, written by Applejack <--- not me, not taking credit, Applejack
***I'll try my best to clarify how to load in a macro text file and run it in the game. This method lets you create very complex, very long macros. Much longer than the ones you can create in-game. However, it DOES NOT allow you to create looping macros. Looping macros are now impossible in the game, FYI.
If you follow these directions exactly, you should be able to load and run macros from text files.
STEP 1: CREATING THE TEXT FILE
Run notepad or any other text editor. Begin by typing in the following macro text. Don't just cut and paste from this posting, because it's possible for you to unknowingly copy special characters, which will cause SWG to not read the file correctly. So type. By hand. I'll surround the text with a line to indicate the beginning of the file and one to indicate the end of the file, but DON'T TYPE THESE LINES. These are just for your reference here, and shouldn't appear in your text file.
----< BEGINNING OF FILE - DON'T INCLUDE! >----
testmacro: /wave;/pause 10;/cheer;/testmacro2
testmacro2: /wave
----< END OF FILE - DON'T INCLUDE! >----
Make sure you type this EXACTLY. Note the spaces, punctuation, etc. If it's not exactly right, SWG won't understand your file. Now, save the file somewhere you'll be able to find it. The desktop, or whereever. Save it as "test.txt" - the .txt extension is important.
STEP 2: MOVING THE TEXT FILE TO THE RIGHT DIRECTORY
Now that you've created a text file, it's time to move it to the directory where SWG can access it. Normally, this is C:\Program Files\StarWarsGalaxies. But you may have installed SWG in a custom directory, so you'll have to determine this yourself. It's the same directory that contains the file SwgClient_r.exe. So if you search for this file, you'll know you've got the right directory. Copy the test.txt file into this directory.
STEP 3: LOADING THE TEXT FILE INTO SWG
Start up SWG. If you're already running it, quit and restart. Now in the chat/command entry field where you'd normally type commands or chat, type:
/load test.txt
No quotes, just like above. Make SURE you include the ".txt" part. You should get a response:
Aliases loaded from: test.txt
If you get any other response, you've probably accidentally done something wrong. Go back to the beginning and double check all your steps. It's also possible that there's some unusual issue with your particular machine, in which case all I can say is sorry
Once you get the "Aliases loaded" response, your macros are now loaded into SWG. What's happened is that SWG has read your text file and learned two new commands: /testmacro and /testmacro2. These will now be treated like normal commands just like any other command (until you quit the game, at which point it'll forget them).
STEP 4: RUNNING THE MACRO
At the command line (where you'd normal enter chat or commands), type:
/testmacro
Your character should wave, pause for 10 seconds, cheer, and then wave again.
What's happened is that /testmacro has issued the /wave command, then the /pause command, then the /cheer command, then the /testmacro2 command. /testmacro2 is a new command you just loaded in, and when executed will issue the /wave command. Here's the text file again for your reference:
----< BEGINNING OF FILE - DON'T INCLUDE! >----
testmacro: /wave;/pause 10;/cheer;/testmacro2
testmacro2: /wave
----< END OF FILE - DON'T INCLUDE! >---- ***
Using alias files is the only sane way to put real world songs ingame. Get the lyrics from the internet, paste them into a text file, insert /sing, /pause, whatever /emotes you want, any timed special effects, whatever your heart desires.
This is also a great way to create and test duets. two alias macros, one for each singer. Make a guess at the pauses you need to get them to mesh, then load them both into your game. set up a command line to kick off both of them, and then watch your spam. Increase or decrease pauses in the text files as needed until you sync up the duet. Once you have it down, email the text file to your singing partner and voila! All you need to do is be able to start the song within a second or two of each other, and it should work great.
Another HUGE advantage is, the text files are separate from the game, if you've ever had one of those nasty wipes and lost all your commands and macros, you know how much it can stink, well these alias files will all still be there for you, and you can also back them up on other hard drives to be doubly safe.
Last, I learned all of this from the most wonderful playing partner I could ask for, my girlfriend. May seem sappy to bring it up here, but she teaches me lots and doesn't even know it, so I'm saying it for all to see. Love you, sweet.
Orew wrote:
I am sorry to say but this is a bad solution to the problem and won't fix anything.
Using aliases I could write a non-recursive macro that would run for days. In 5 minutes I can find on the internet a program that will press buttons on the toolbar all day long.
The only good solution would be for SOE to specify in the ToS that being afk is illegal and then enforce this.
Using any 3rd party program is a ToS violation. If legit players can't use ingame recursive macros, it will be a lot easier to catch and punish violators.