Musician Archive
Thread: Feedback needed Jukebox Player Event Perk
Because of consolidation into the big cities for holocraze grinding and because of the miserable and unfun atmosphere that entertainers now have to level in it HAS become hard to round up a band because the lively ones are either doing their own thing hidden away from afk-grinders and bots or because they have moved on to things that are fun - be it other professions or other games.
It frustrates me when I hear people say "we need bots because there are no entertainers!" Well no, there are no entertainers because there are bots. People are either too new, or have faded memories of what it was like before everyone and their brother learned how to exploit the Entertainer mechanics. SOETyrant is new to the game himself I believe, and so are most of the "new" developer team. I hope someone over there who has an interest in the Entertainer professions (Runesaber maybe? Wasnt he the one who organized the ID revamp?) lets them in on a little history.
The ability to do the entire profession and all of its gameplay afk and the lack of new content (until just recently with the new song and... theatrical) makes for unfun gameplay and therefore you have a lack of entertainers. It is not "there is a general lack of entertainers so we must come up with other options for people." Cause and effect must be understood in the correct order.
I hope it is true that he has something to announce for Entertainers next week. And that it is specific to entertainers. I'd like to speculate that the reason they put this in instead of added musician content is because the musician/entertainer content is still being worked on. But speculation often leads to false hope.
Sorry for the depressing post. Now back to your regularly scheduled wookiee.
/hug
- The jukebox is placed indoors, and provides ambient music to the building it is in.
- The jukebox lasts for 8 hours from purchase.
- The jukebox costs 25k credits.
- The jukebox has a very wide selection of songs that loop, including such things as the theme from the Emperor's retreat, the Lok planet music, the music you hear in ID tents, the intro music to SW movies.
- Specifically, the jukebox contains the songs that are the sources of the Entertainer songs starwars1 and starwars2.
What concerns, if any, do you have regarding the effect of the jukebox on the Musician profession?
1. Players will compare these orchastrated songs to the cacaphony of a grinding group and want to hear this ambient music in the cantinas.
2. Players will want to know why we can't play all these tunes.
3. Parties will no longer require a band, the juke box will be cheaper and provide better and known quality ambient music. Bands and musicial shows are pretty much dead since 25k is nothing for most guilds and is far cheaper than tipping 5 musicians a paltry 10k each.
4. Since it is ambient they won't have to /listen which will change expectations.
5. There is no way to compete with an 8 hour utility. The jukebox should only run an hour at most. Its hard to get enough people together to do a 2 hour gig much less compete with a new music bot that will run 8 hours for little cost while providing a long list of well orchistrated songs.
6. Do the devs not realize how borked the economy is? Where do they think that 25k will be considered a sum that is only spent for very special events?
On a different note. I thought this is what the speaker was supposed to give us, the ability to become ambient music for a venue. Why don't they fix the speakers instead so a band can provide true ambient music? If they have long enough segments of all these songs to provide a jukebox that isn't looping in tiny little annoying segments then why can't we get these as new songs for musicians?
The devs have been doing some nice stuff for us lately, they actually seem to be interested in these social professions. However they need to realize that creating a game supported, purchasable bot to replace us in the entertaining space while not stopping the player provided bots for the buffing space leaves us with nothing.
Aleyo wrote:
On Test Center right now, you can purchase a Jukebox from the player events promoter NPCs.
- The jukebox is placed indoors, and provides ambient music to the building it is in.
- The jukebox lasts for 8 hours from purchase.
- The jukebox costs 25k credits.
- The jukebox has a very wide selection of songs that loop, including such things as the theme from the Emperor's retreat, the Lok planet music, the music you hear in ID tents, the intro music to SW movies.
- Specifically, the jukebox contains the songs that are the sources of the Entertainer songs starwars1 and starwars2.
What concerns, if any, do you have regarding the effect of the jukebox on the Musician profession?
Well, I have no concerns about reprecussions to the music profession as far as our healingand buffing go. I do have a major problem with them giving this device to an NPC instead of making it a craftable device for Musicians. We've often tossed around the idea of craftabe "recordings" usable by other people for ambient music. Giving this to an NPC is on par with giving a 25% buff bonus to people wearing the AFK tag. 
It's an ability real musicians should have, not NPC's. (Heck, I wouldn't have a hugeproblem with a DE or Master Artisan needing to craft the box itself....but Musicians should at least be required toactivate/create/record the music.)
Lytefoot's concerns also hold true....
Message Edited by Tralmek on 02-21-2005 10:30 AM
Aleyo wrote:
On Test Center right now, you can purchase a Jukebox from the player events promoter NPCs.
- The jukebox is placed indoors, and provides ambient music to the building it is in.
- The jukebox lasts for 8 hours from purchase.
- The jukebox costs 25k credits.
- The jukebox has a very wide selection of songs that loop, including such things as the theme from the Emperor's retreat, the Lok planet music, the music you hear in ID tents, the intro music to SW movies.
- Specifically, the jukebox contains the songs that are the sources of the Entertainer songs starwars1 and starwars2.
What concerns, if any, do you have regarding the effect of the jukebox on the Musician profession?
*sigh*
Ok, I held off on complaining about this, but you've made a thread, so I'll voice my concerns.
First of all, a similar thing was done in Image Designer salons, with their ambient music. I got riled up by that, in the notion that if Image Designers want music for the salons they're in, they should get Musicians. And, some ID's do get Musicians,but we end up fighting against the ambient music - and if anyone listens to us we essentially sound like garbage with 2 music pieces playing at once (see/listen toJabba's throne room). Anyhow some ID's basically side calm down, it's not music playable by any player, so we're not being replaced or diminished in our role.
Now, with the jukebox......grrrrr.
Here we go again.
I think it's a cool idea (and one that several players have asked for, to have music in their shops/homes).
If we complain and it's taken out now, we'll get a horrible backlash. Too late, we lose. This thing's going in the game. Glad we got asked how we feel this could HURT our profession AFTER everyone falls in love with it.
We've been replaced in a lot of RP situations with a machine that costs 25k, and that offers more interesting music in-game than we do. Such is the sorry state of the Musician profession.
Due to our dull, lifeless, stagnant music situation (both instrumentally and musically) we're easily replaced by a 25k machine that is actually a better Musician than we are.
Very, very sad.
These things will be THE choice for ambient music at events. Hell, I know a lot of RP'ers who just have Player Music turned completely off, since they're not interested at all in hearing starwars2 or ballad or whatever for the 10,000th time, as they've been playing for over a year now.
With the addition of the jukebox to the game, we are now NOTHING but set dressing.
HELL, even I might set one up for events, and just have some Musicians stand around playing instruments, to give the impression that they're playing the music. God forbid someone /listen to them, since they'll get a headache-inducing nightmare of garbled notes listening to the two songs at once.
You tell me - will Joe ShmoSWG pay 25k for the jukebox, AND hire set dressing Musicians, or just pay the 25k. Take a wild guess.
So, in closing, I think the Jukebox pretty much says it all - due to our stagnant state, repetitive songs, the addition of 1 song, just ONE, in almost two years of this game, we're been replaced by a 25k terminal that plays better music than us.
SAD.
There, I've said my piece. Can't wait to have some way of hearing good music in this game. Just wish it was MUSICIANS playing the good music, go figure. Next we'll have purchasable dancing NPC's, that do all sorts of neat dances that no Dancer is able to perform. *rolls eyes*
Message Edited by Warryyr on 02-21-2005 09:43 AM
Moonkat wrote:
Since they won't be playing music that's better for parties and dancing, I don't think it will have an effect.
The Mos Eisley cantina music is included..definitely party music. My greatest concern is that the jukebox is ambient and we aren't. For a player to hear us they have to /listen. The jukebox requires no effort for a player to hear the music (other than being in the vacinity). Do I think this will impact the number of requests I get to play at weddings, parties and events? Most definitely..yes.
What I'd like to see: Make us ambient. Players should be able to hear us if they are near where we are playing. Maybe make this happen through the use of microphones and speakers (while it has been suggested that the microphones and speakers in Coronet, Theed & Bestine are for this purpose and some have claimed to be able to use them for such, as many times as I've turned them on, I've yet to be able to make it work).Players should have to target and /listen in order to get the benefits of our mechanics..but not just to hear us at a party.
Give us more context appropriate music. Oh what I would do for something..anything..that worked better for weddings than Ceremonial! Give us more music period. Players are getting tired of us playing the same old thing time & again. Even Western has lost its charm after hearing it so many times.
LyteFoot wrote:
I see a number of issues.
1. Players will compare these orchastrated songs to the cacaphony of a grinding group and want to hear this ambient music in the cantinas.
2. Players will want to know why we can't play all these tunes.
3. Parties will no longer require a band, the juke box will be cheaper and provide better and known quality ambient music. Bands and musicial shows are pretty much dead since 25k is nothing for most guilds and is far cheaper than tipping 5 musicians a paltry 10k each.
4. Since it is ambient they won't have to /listen which will change expectations.
5. There is no way to compete with an 8 hour utility. The jukebox should only run an hour at most. Its hard to get enough people together to do a 2 hour gig much less compete with a new music bot that will run 8 hours for little cost while providing a long list of well orchistrated songs.
6. Do the devs not realize how borked the economy is? Where do they think that 25k will be considered a sum that is only spent for very special events?
On a different note. I thought this is what the speaker was supposed to give us, the ability to become ambient music for a venue. Why don't they fix the speakers instead so a band can provide true ambient music? If they have long enough segments of all these songs to provide a jukebox that isn't looping in tiny little annoying segments then why can't we get these as new songs for musicians?
The devs have been doing some nice stuff for us lately, they actually seem to be interested in these social professions. However they need to realize that creating a game supported, purchasable bot to replace us in the entertaining space while not stopping the player provided bots for the buffing space leaves us with nothing.
Yeah, what the Christ happened to speakers and microphones? Jesus, only myself and many other Musicians have asked the same question countless times.
Then again, who wants to hear a rendition of Folk for the umpteenth time in ambient music. Why not hear something NEW.
Again, goes back to the machines now being better Musicians than us. Very sad.
Tralmek wrote:
I have no problem with people getting Jukeboxes if they want a full 8 hours of music and they don't want to pay the price to bring in a live band. All I ask is that those of us who make up the Music industry in Galaxies have a majorrole in the creation of the jukeboxes. It seems pretty low of them to add musical content without having it be Musician content.
Yeah, you know - you're right.
If we could at least craft these things or something, it would be acceptable.
Having an NPC sell our skills at 25k is really what insults me the most, with the fact that a terminal plays music better than us coming in at a close second.