Musician Archive
Thread: *Sarcasm* The sky is falling! The sky is falling! *Sarcasm*
Page 1 of 2
Bronski113
Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:18 am
#1
To me it sounds like we have a lot of Chickenlittles running around screaming because of the jukebox.
I'm a master musician/entertainer/dancer. Every single bit of it done at the keyboard and did the ID part of entertainer after the timer was added in for ID.
Personally, I have no problem with the jukebox. It doesn't play the same music as me, it can't buff, it has to be inside a structure unlike me, and i'm a lot more interesting than it. The only ability that it has that i would like to have is the ability to do the ambient music i.e. you walk into a room and you hear me playing.
Actually, I like the idea of the jukebox. While I love playing music I really don't want to have to do it at every single party I go to. I could always say no but i'm not one to turn down a friend.
Basically what I am trying to say is that this isn't the end of the world. I originally became a musician because it was a style of play I had never experienced before and I wanted to try it. Then I met some great people and I kept doing it (well, after a stint as a smuggler before mastering).
I don't do this because of the music. I do this because of the people, my friends and everyone else.
Yes, the entertainer professions have their problems. We have a lot of problems.
I beg the entertainer community to take a deep breath and take things into perspective. Right now we are becoming what the majority of the players think we are: Just a bunch of whiners.
I've done my share of whining, mostly about buffbots and such but i have figured out that dwelling on such things makes my playtime unhappy. So now i concentrate on my guild, the events we put on, my cantina, my city and just having fun.
Express your feelings and concerns in a constructive way to our correspondents. Their job is to pass that stuff along to the devs.
Otherwise if you aren't having fun you should try something else for a while. This is a game, not life, we have the luxury of being able to change ourselves on a whim.
Most likely I'll probably just stop reading the forums for a while because this place is ruining my fun with the game more than anything i experience in game.
I'm a master musician/entertainer/dancer. Every single bit of it done at the keyboard and did the ID part of entertainer after the timer was added in for ID.
Personally, I have no problem with the jukebox. It doesn't play the same music as me, it can't buff, it has to be inside a structure unlike me, and i'm a lot more interesting than it. The only ability that it has that i would like to have is the ability to do the ambient music i.e. you walk into a room and you hear me playing.
Actually, I like the idea of the jukebox. While I love playing music I really don't want to have to do it at every single party I go to. I could always say no but i'm not one to turn down a friend.
Basically what I am trying to say is that this isn't the end of the world. I originally became a musician because it was a style of play I had never experienced before and I wanted to try it. Then I met some great people and I kept doing it (well, after a stint as a smuggler before mastering).
I don't do this because of the music. I do this because of the people, my friends and everyone else.
Yes, the entertainer professions have their problems. We have a lot of problems.
I beg the entertainer community to take a deep breath and take things into perspective. Right now we are becoming what the majority of the players think we are: Just a bunch of whiners.
I've done my share of whining, mostly about buffbots and such but i have figured out that dwelling on such things makes my playtime unhappy. So now i concentrate on my guild, the events we put on, my cantina, my city and just having fun.
Express your feelings and concerns in a constructive way to our correspondents. Their job is to pass that stuff along to the devs.
Otherwise if you aren't having fun you should try something else for a while. This is a game, not life, we have the luxury of being able to change ourselves on a whim.
Most likely I'll probably just stop reading the forums for a while because this place is ruining my fun with the game more than anything i experience in game.
Message Edited by Bronski113 on 02-26-2005 08:21 AM
Mariki
Sat Feb 26, 2005 10:03 am
#2
My first reaction was negative. But then it dawned on me that they are no more competition as the TV set.
Its just canned music. I would have liked to see it implimented where a master musician was actually involved in providing other music content to the game. Perhaps it could have been a type of music synthesizer for a droid. Might be a nice thing to play between sets... Actually I see these more as a radio then a jukebox. Would be nice for a house, not a cantina.
Bronski113
Sat Feb 26, 2005 10:08 am
#3
Exactly, the jukebox is no big deal.
Entertainers should focus not on negative thoughts but on thoughts and ideas that can make our profession better.
I'm not so sure about having something like the jukebox in a droid but I would like to see people be able to hear the droid when i'm not playing.
Entertainers should focus not on negative thoughts but on thoughts and ideas that can make our profession better.
I'm not so sure about having something like the jukebox in a droid but I would like to see people be able to hear the droid when i'm not playing.
Ravanne_Esi
Sat Feb 26, 2005 11:11 am
#4
Bronski113 wrote:
Entertainers should focus not on negative thoughts but on thoughts and ideas that can make our profession better.
We have worked on many ideas to make our profession better, you can see many of them in game right now. In the jukebox.
Bronski113
Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:02 pm
#5
Besides the ambient music i'm not quite sure about what ideas are implemented in the jukebox.
Only thing i could think of is the movie music, which, really isn't something I'd want to play. I'd rather have more original music personally.
Only thing i could think of is the movie music, which, really isn't something I'd want to play. I'd rather have more original music personally.
SakeO
Sun Feb 27, 2005 12:42 am
#6
Admittedly, my master musician has been on the shelf for a while but, these jukeboxes look more like possible tools to me than any kind of real competition. I haven't heard them, soI don't know if they can't be worked into performances but, how do they even steal work from entertainers. They seem like a nice tool for social events which most entertainers seem to enjoy and also provide some drama for events where an entertainer might not be appropriate.
SakeO
MusicalDina
Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:06 am
#7
I have to disagree with you on this one, not directly about the jukeboxes but about other things in your post.
I really dont think anybody in here is screaming that they are mad solely because of the jukebox. Lets put it in other terms.
If you get whacked in the head, it hurts but it isnt the end of the world.
If you then got an arm cut off, it hurts but it isnt the end of the world.
If you then ask for a prosthetic arm and they chop off your other arm to put in the prosthetic, it hurts - doesnt help you in any way, and is by no means the end of the world.
If you then go to work and find out you have been replaced by a more efficient robot, that does everything you can do, sometimes better, and for 24/7, it isnt the end of the world but it sure sucks.
If you then find out your significant other has left you and taken the kids and is divorcing you, it isnt the end of the world either.
if you then get shot hobbling to the unemployment office and robbed of the 20 bucks you had left, it isnt the end of the world.
At some point it WILL be the end of the world. You can only bleed so much before you die.
That is how i and apparently others view our state of our profession. The jukebox is by no means the end of the world. it certainly isnt a positive for musicians in its current form. It IS competition, as would be anything besides a musician playing music. The fact that we can buff/heal and the jukebox cannot im not concerned with. What I am concerned with, and where the negative of the jukebox comes in, is that at parties where the ONLY thing we are doing is playing the background music, we are no longer needed, and there is a better alternative then us.
Why should somebody hire a musician for a gig now? The jukebox can play more/better songs, is cheaper, can play ambiently, and can play for 8 hours straight no stopping.
To answer why somebody should hire us, it would be just for aesthetic reasons. We would be there solely to look like we are playing.
To the point more, this could have been implemented a lot better had they given some thought. they didnt. Really ALL player event decorations should be architect made save NPCs, which could be given to other professions.
Give SL the ability to get the NPCs, give arch all the decorations, give DEs ability to summon a droid decoration, give us the jukebox with perhaps help from arch and DE.
All of our bitching, all of our whining, comes down to us not wanting to be forgotten. We like the concept of what SWG has provided, and it appears to be going away from that original model. We are seeing a trend that in the end looks like it is the end of the world for us.
picklesSW
Sun Feb 27, 2005 8:26 am
#8
"Express your feelings and concerns in a constructive way to our correspondents. Their job is to pass that stuff along to the devs."
You might consider the same advice. Calling all your peers "a bunch of whiners" when they express their opinions about an addition to the game that affects them will not endear you to them. Hey, I'm not a musician. This change won't affect me. But I stand by the musicians and if they perceive a legitimate beef with this, I'm not going to judge them or call them whiners for their opinions. No matter what my personal opinion may be on the subject, I have enough respect for others here that I would NEVER put a post like you have on this or any other forum.
In my opinion, this post is out of line.
You might consider the same advice. Calling all your peers "a bunch of whiners" when they express their opinions about an addition to the game that affects them will not endear you to them. Hey, I'm not a musician. This change won't affect me. But I stand by the musicians and if they perceive a legitimate beef with this, I'm not going to judge them or call them whiners for their opinions. No matter what my personal opinion may be on the subject, I have enough respect for others here that I would NEVER put a post like you have on this or any other forum.
In my opinion, this post is out of line.
LyteFoot
Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:05 am
#9
Ravanne_Esi wrote:
Bronski113 wrote:
Entertainers should focus not on negative thoughts but on thoughts and ideas that can make our profession better.We have worked on many ideas to make our profession better, you can see many of them in game right now. In the jukebox.
Bingo thats the whole problem. We have asked for more songs, more starwars centric songs, the speakers to work so we can be ambient, etc. The non-ents have also asked for these same improvements. Where does SOE meet those requests? In an NPC purchased jukebox. No player interdependencies, no enhancements to a single profession, no improved game play for the professions based on entertaining. That is why it is not only a poor choice on the devs part but a very serious blow to our profession. They felt the time was better spent meeting those requests with a non-player utility than spending time on our profession.
Warryyr
Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:52 am
#10
Chickenlittle or not, the Jukebox plays that Modal Nodes song from the Mos Eisley cantina way better than I can.
That was just one of a few songs I was really hoping to play when I first became a Musician in SWG.
It comes down to this: when new content is added in the game, it is usually profession-specific. Each profession has it's specialty, and when new stuff is put in, it's usually to add to the content of various professions. That's why, with the recent loot schematics, you have to find various professions to get it made. Music is our specialty, and it's being dished out by an NPC to anyone with money. It's like buying a Swoop from an NPC, or a Tanned Hide, or a bottle of Vaserian Brandy, and so on.
Music is our thing - now it's just partly our thing. Now, people walk in and hear a Jukebox playing, and if we're playing onstage - we compete with it, instead of get enhanced by it. Player Music Volume and Background Music Volume fight each other now.
I wouldn't be nearly as frustrated over the Juke if it hadn't improved on some our songs, rather than just adding songs that were never available before. And it does it ambiently, which is nice for cantinas or other structures during a party.
kirah_ashlin
Sun Feb 27, 2005 10:20 am
#11
picklesSW wrote:
"Express your feelings and concerns in a constructive way to our correspondents. Their job is to pass that stuff along to the devs."
You might consider the same advice. Calling all your peers "a bunch of whiners" when they express their opinions about an addition to the game that affects them will not endear you to them. Hey, I'm not a musician. This change won't affect me. But I stand by the musicians and if they perceive a legitimate beef with this, I'm not going to judge them or call them whiners for their opinions. No matter what my personal opinion may be on the subject, I have enough respect for others here that I would NEVER put a post like you have on this or any other forum.
In my opinion, this post is out of line.
My thoughts exactly when reading the original post, Javy. It's akin to the poster in the dancer forum who not only praised the merits of the jukebox over musicians but actually crowed about a profession other than dancergettingthe shaft. . . . There is no place for such disrespect or disregard. We are all entertainers. If you don't see the harm of the jukebox, fine - just don't try to rub it in the faces of the (majority of)musicians who feel otherwise.
If you don't think this really affects players who have chosen to be musicians, think on this one - there is a prominent musician who is so disappointed over the implimentation of the jukebox after more than a year of trying to get the devs to give musicians more songs and instrument sounds that he has pretty much had it with the SWG. Which is saying alot . . . and that is the real harm.
Bronski113
Sun Feb 27, 2005 12:50 pm
#12
I guess I didn't do a very good job with my first post about getting my point across. I tried to get too creative.
This is what I am trying to say:
1. I do not percieve the jukebox as a threat to my profession.
2. We get a better response from the devs when we constructively present our ideas to them.
3. When we get a change many people have the "Its about time" mentality. Even if the change was overdue we should at least thank them and then proceed to do what I said in number 2 about what would make the change better.
4. I said WE are becoming whiners. Myself included. I complain just as much as everyone else. I'm trying to get past that.
This is an opinion, my opinion. This is my response to the posts that I have been seeing in the forums. Yes I could have worded my post better and in a more constructive way. I should have taken my own advice. But this is not an apology for what I said.
Thats it. Like it or not that is what I think. Maybe my opinion doesn't hold much weight because I'm not a regular in the forums but I am a fellow entertainer.
Now I am going to go be an entertainer, not just another name in the forums.
P.S. I should have also been more clear that this thread wasn't a shot at everyone discussing the jukebox, merely the ones who apparently quit because of it or acted like this was the end of the world. Actually, when writing this thread I was not thinking about the longer threads discussing the issue, mostly a few smaller ones that just hit me the wrong way.
This is what I am trying to say:
1. I do not percieve the jukebox as a threat to my profession.
2. We get a better response from the devs when we constructively present our ideas to them.
3. When we get a change many people have the "Its about time" mentality. Even if the change was overdue we should at least thank them and then proceed to do what I said in number 2 about what would make the change better.
4. I said WE are becoming whiners. Myself included. I complain just as much as everyone else. I'm trying to get past that.
This is an opinion, my opinion. This is my response to the posts that I have been seeing in the forums. Yes I could have worded my post better and in a more constructive way. I should have taken my own advice. But this is not an apology for what I said.
Thats it. Like it or not that is what I think. Maybe my opinion doesn't hold much weight because I'm not a regular in the forums but I am a fellow entertainer.
Now I am going to go be an entertainer, not just another name in the forums.
P.S. I should have also been more clear that this thread wasn't a shot at everyone discussing the jukebox, merely the ones who apparently quit because of it or acted like this was the end of the world. Actually, when writing this thread I was not thinking about the longer threads discussing the issue, mostly a few smaller ones that just hit me the wrong way.
Message Edited by Bronski113 on 02-27-2005 12:06 PM
MusicalDina
Mon Feb 28, 2005 5:37 am
#13
Bronski113 wrote:
To me it sounds like we have a lot of Chickenlittles running around screaming because of the jukebox.
I'm a master musician/entertainer/dancer. Every single bit of it done at the keyboard and did the ID part of entertainer after the timer was added in for ID.
Personally, I have no problem with the jukebox. It doesn't play the same music as me, it can't buff, it has to be inside a structure unlike me, and i'm a lot more interesting than it. The only ability that it has that i would like to have is the ability to do the ambient music i.e. you walk into a room and you hear me playing.
Actually, I like the idea of the jukebox. While I love playing music I really don't want to have to do it at every single party I go to. I could always say no but i'm not one to turn down a friend.
Basically what I am trying to say is that this isn't the end of the world. I originally became a musician because it was a style of play I had never experienced before and I wanted to try it. Then I met some great people and I kept doing it (well, after a stint as a smuggler before mastering).
I don't do this because of the music. I do this because of the people, my friends and everyone else.
Yes, the entertainer professions have their problems. We have a lot of problems.
I beg the entertainer community to take a deep breath and take things into perspective. Right now we are becoming what the majority of the players think we are: Just a bunch of whiners.
I've done my share of whining, mostly about buffbots and such but i have figured out that dwelling on such things makes my playtime unhappy. So now i concentrate on my guild, the events we put on, my cantina, my city and just having fun.
Express your feelings and concerns in a constructive way to our correspondents. Their job is to pass that stuff along to the devs.
Otherwise if you aren't having fun you should try something else for a while. This is a game, not life, we have the luxury of being able to change ourselves on a whim.
Most likely I'll probably just stop reading the forums for a while because this place is ruining my fun with the game more than anything i experience in game.
Message Edited by Bronski113 on 02-26-2005 08:21 AM
you are right you did a very poor job of getting your point across.
Not to mention your point is very arguable.
You say the Juke box does not harm us. It wont compete.
Thats what you said about the jukebox. the rest was all about us whining and taking it in chin. We should be good citizens because nothing will get changed if we say negative things. Thats BS. If you dont like something and you critize some idea, it will come across negative.
saying " I dont like that idea, lets try this instead." have fallen upon def ears for almost 2 years. saying " i have this really good idea!...' has fallen on def ears for two years now. heck even saying 'THIS IS BS THIS SHOULD BE THE WAY IT IS.' has fallen on def ears for 2 years.
Our whining is for a reason. To be honest I rarely see a real whine on this board. The majority is complaints. There is a HUGE difference. A complaint is generally constructive, a whine is not. If you wish to see an example of a whine go to the jedi boards.
IE. "We should have this, not an npc." and giving no reason is a whine. saying 'We should have this, not an npc because, blah, blah, blah...' is not a whine it is a constructive complaint. The vast majority of negative posts on our boards are the later type.
Now to get back to your thoughts on the jukebox....
I highlighted above all you said about jukeboxes in red. You gave two reasons why you thought these were a good idea, and wont compete with us.
1. they cant buff/heal.
2. you didnt want to play music the entire time anyways.
#1 has no real reason to be ina thread about the jukebox. It is not the healing/buffing that we are generally hired for events. We have no fear it would replace us in those issues - we have buffbot npcs to replace us there.
#2 thats ok. if you didnt want to play the whole time simply decline the request and state you would rather have fun. if you are not having fun playing your profession, always turn down the gig. There is ALWAYS other musicians that would be glad to take that spot at a gig and make some money. In fact you support EXACTLY why these jukeboxes WILL replace us at player events. I will bold and capitalize this to make it very clear:
YOU GOT THE JUKEBOX TO REPLACE YOURSELF!
So if it can be done to replace you because you didnt want to play the entire time, what makes you think people wont replace us with them as well?
Page 1 of 2