Musician Archive
Thread: Its time to revisit the Delay
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Mariki
Sun Mar 06, 2005 11:22 am
#1
Way back when there was an exploit to buff people in two minutes by stacking starts and stops and flos. The response to stop this exploit was to introduce "The Delay". Recently buff times were radically reduced and I think its time to revisit this delay.
This delay has been nothing but trouble to all the entertainers out there, musicians, dancers, bands, everyone. I also think it has caused many of the bugs we experience with /startband (/startdance)and /changemusic (/changedance). I already know I can duplicate some of these bugs. Ithasbeen a nightmare for nal and omnibox players as if they loose target they stop playing and have to wait to restart again. There are also times in arrangements you want to change an instrument for artistic expression.
I feel there are some really good reasons to eliminate this delay and the only reason it was ever introduced was to stop an exploit for a two minute buff that seems to have been solved. This delay is not the same as the combat delays and was never related. There was never an advantage with switching instruments or starting and stopping except with the buff exploiters and I think the rest of us have suffered with this terrible delay long enough.
Lets get this horrible delay that has been messing with our art removed!
Message Edited by Mariki on 03-06-2005 10:26 AM
Tiaga
Sun Mar 06, 2005 11:42 am
#2
I'd say yes I agree but the delay was mainly to stop a different exploit related to musician xp.
I'd like yo see it made less intrusive to performance, but right now I don't see it going away, as much as I'd like it to.
I'd like yo see it made less intrusive to performance, but right now I don't see it going away, as much as I'd like it to.
Esharra
Sun Mar 06, 2005 11:46 am
#3
Yup..has to be a better solution than the delay tho. It's just messed up so many things.
Mariki
Sun Mar 06, 2005 11:54 am
#4
Hey I know, make it a master thing.Let the delay decrease as you advance up the tree just like ID and have it removed completely at the master level when experience is no longer an issue. Heck, I been maxed out on music exp a long long time.
Tiaga
Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:00 pm
#5
The type of people who would use it still have a use for xp at master - force xp conversion.
I'd like to see it reduced at least, or the measure taken from start to start, not stop to start.
I'd like to see it reduced at least, or the measure taken from start to start, not stop to start.
Esharra
Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:05 pm
#6
I've always thought this a shameful example of how we're paying the price of exploits performed by players who undoubtedly have no interest in actually playing an entertainer profession. Has to be a better way.
Mariki
Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:11 pm
#7
Tiaga wrote:
The type of people who would use it still have a use for xp at master - force xp conversion.
I'd like to see it reduced at least, or the measure taken from start to start, not stop to start.
Ok, I can see this and the solution is simple. As long as you have been playing for a set amount of time already, then there would be no delay stoping and restarting. We eliminate the start-stopers and everyone is happy.
Message Edited by Mariki on 03-06-2005 11:14 AM
Mariki
Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:20 pm
#8
Also it came to me that it can be like putting on armor. That first piece has no delay whatsoever and its the second and all following that has a delay. I know they can do this as they do it with armor and weapons for combat people. After a small delay it resets and you can put on or change one piece of armor with no delay again.
Mariki wrote:
Tiaga wrote:
The type of people who would use it still have a use for xp at master - force xp conversion.
I'd like to see it reduced at least, or the measure taken from start to start, not stop to start.
Ok, I can see this and the solution is simple. As long as you have been playing for a set amount of time already, then there would be no delay stoping and restarting. We eliminate the start-stopers and everyone is happy.
Message Edited by Mariki on 03-06-2005 11:14 AM
Maisland
Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:36 pm
#9
I agree that this is an excellent solution. I see no reason for waiting a full 15 seconds after stopping before being able to start performing again, especiallyif I have been performing for some time already.
Tiaga wrote:
I'd like to see it reduced at least, or the measure taken from start to start, not stop to start.
Drygo
Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:07 pm
#10
The problem was that people kept stopping and starting instaneously in order to gain experience faster. You couldn't go into a Cantina and listen or watch anybody without seeing an insane amount of system message spam. (Some of us find it useful to keep system messages on and should not be forced to turn them off.)
So, perhaps, in order to fix this, maybe they should not allow you to start gaining experience until 20 seconds after you've started playing, but allow you to stop and start without a delay.
NJ62
Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:42 am
#11
Yeah the delay is really horrible if you're performing and want to switch instruments. 
Warryyr
Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:26 am
#12
Actually, the buff exploit of starting and stopping would buff in 30 seconds, not 2 minutes 
And not only did the Combat folks love it, I did to. It got them on their way really fast, was reliable, and people appreciated it (tipping accordingly).
I didn't like it a lot because 1) it sounded like garbage music-wise, 2) it spammed the combat queue, and 3) it became a commonly requested service rather than the usual process (can you speed buff? Not right now? Ok, i'll go find someone else).
Once that was taken away (once people started using it to exploit the xp system), they set the artificial 2 minute minimum watching/listening requirement to combat that. This was recently changed to 1 minute, if you notice the system message when you stop listening/watching someone in less than one minute.
The "stopping then starting again" time limit NEEDS to get toned down, it really does. It's been a constant annoyance since it was put in to combat the xp exploit. I don't care if it's a few seconds, just so long as it's toned down. Right now, if a Musician wants to stop playing, record a new track on their droid, start again, and get their droid to play with them, there's a LOOOOOOONG awkard pause of stopping music, starting playing again with the instrument to record on the droid, recording, stopping playing, then restarting again and finally you can play with your droid. If you have people listening to you, they very quickly have no idea what you're doing or why it's taking so long, so that in the end your fine duet with your droid isn't even listened to, because of how long it takes for you start playing to record, then play for a minute, then stop and wait again to start.
Ugh, it just needs to get reduced, if they refuse to get rid of it altogether. It's been an issue since it was first put in, and the Devs never budged an inch. So, I expect no less from them this time around. It was one of those things they put that really screwed up Entertainers, then took this apparent attitude of, "Phew, finally dealt with that Entertainer issue - never touching THAT code again! Now, on to more important Jedi things..."
So, with any changes we have coming our way - I'm with Mariki. Fix the stupid timer thing, or at least reduce it. It's really annoying when performing.
omadnay
Mon Mar 07, 2005 11:02 am
#13
I couldn't agree more.
Another one of those exploit fixes that really messes up legitimate players.
It needs to be toned down if they cannot remove it completely.
Absolutely!
The performance aspect of this exploit-fix needs to be acknowledged better.
/change is nice and all, but sometimes it's nicer to actually /stop, end a song and start up another, but the timer is way too long for artistic purposes.
They could make it worse... While the delay timer is running, they could have us make sounds like we're tuning our instruments inbetween songs or some feedbacks and whatnot.
That'd go perfectly with the long delay we deal with
Omadda: "Just one second and we will continue the show..."
*Omadda makes sounds on his instrument, trying to match notes and get it in tune*
*Sam, the omnibox player, accidentally creates a loud feedback before he quickly turns the volume down*
Omadda: "Just a couple more seconds"
*Tiira, the chidinkalu player, begins matching Her tuning to Omadda's instrument (Oops, She's way out of tune)*
Tiira: "Heh, must be the humidity"
Heckler: "Humidity?!?! On Tatooine????"
*Taanya, the dancer, accidentally knocks over a Bandfill, resulting in a loud crash and feedback*
*Tiira is now in tune with the band*
Omadda: "Okay, This next number has a little story behind it... I had to spend 400k xp after going through a quest in order to learn it. So, please unequip your weapons and give a /listen to what I call, 'Western'."
- Omadda Szool
Kauri
May the force be with you.
Another one of those exploit fixes that really messes up legitimate players.
It needs to be toned down if they cannot remove it completely.
Absolutely!
The performance aspect of this exploit-fix needs to be acknowledged better.
/change is nice and all, but sometimes it's nicer to actually /stop, end a song and start up another, but the timer is way too long for artistic purposes.
They could make it worse... While the delay timer is running, they could have us make sounds like we're tuning our instruments inbetween songs or some feedbacks and whatnot.
That'd go perfectly with the long delay we deal with
Omadda: "Just one second and we will continue the show..."
*Omadda makes sounds on his instrument, trying to match notes and get it in tune*
*Sam, the omnibox player, accidentally creates a loud feedback before he quickly turns the volume down*
Omadda: "Just a couple more seconds"
*Tiira, the chidinkalu player, begins matching Her tuning to Omadda's instrument (Oops, She's way out of tune)*
Tiira: "Heh, must be the humidity"
Heckler: "Humidity?!?! On Tatooine????"
*Taanya, the dancer, accidentally knocks over a Bandfill, resulting in a loud crash and feedback*
*Tiira is now in tune with the band*
Omadda: "Okay, This next number has a little story behind it... I had to spend 400k xp after going through a quest in order to learn it. So, please unequip your weapons and give a /listen to what I call, 'Western'."
- Omadda Szool
Kauri
May the force be with you.
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