Musician Archive
Thread: How to solve AFK and the can't find an Entertainer problem with Inspiration buffs
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Warryyr
Mon Apr 04, 2005 1:33 pm
#1
First, how to end AFK with Inspiration buffs. Many have mentioned a UI, as did I - similar to the ID interface. My proposal:
Person comes in, listens, selects a radial menu option on the Entertainer that says "request inspiration."
The Entertainer gets a pop-up window that says "%TTasks that you inspire them. Do you wish to do so?"
The Entertainer clicks "Yes" and puts a required payment in the box, if desired. The /ui action defaultButton command by default selects "No." THIS IS CRITICAL. There should be no way to macro the acceptance of a request for inspiration. Robot musicians and dancers should NOT be considered inspirational.
The buff begins when the customer agrees to the requested amount and clicks "Accept."
Alternatively, the Entertainer may set a switch (/setinspire off?) that will automatically DECLINE any inspiration requests. When a customer selects "request inspiration" from the Entertainer's radial menu, and the Entertainer has done a /setinspire off (in essence, a /denyservice to anyone who requests buffs), the customer sees "This Entertainer does not look very inspiring. Perhaps you should try another."
The "/setinspire off" command would allow an Entertainer who is performing to perform and NOT buff (group performances, gigs, etc) has the ability to "/setinspire off" and the (eventually habitual) actions of someone to request inspiration tells the person "This Entertainer does not look very inspiring. Perhaps you should try another." The person needn't interrupt the performance, or annoy the Entertainer working on leading their group with bandflourishes.
One of the greatest problems with buffing Entertainers versus buffing Doctors is that the Doctor has a visual cue to know when they're buffing someone (the little white symbol thingy falling over the patients' head). Nobody knows if an Entertainer is buffing or not, they're just playing an instrument or dancing...with people around them....
This lets a person get in a cantina, select an Entertainer and SEE if they're buffing without any need to say a word to an Entertainer if they don't want to. The Entertainer fills in the required payment box, leaves it blank and accepts, or declines the request for inspiration. One neat, efficient interaction that can be repeated without constant spatial spam from everyone entering the cantina and yelling "IS ANYONE BUFFING PLZ!!!11!!!1!" The PLAYER has the control to initiate and request a buff without needing direct communication with an Entertainer, if they so choose. Less spam in cantinas is good(lousy spamming Stormtroop...oops, not on topic).
Now, on to the "I can never find an Entertainer because I play too late/too early/I don't have time to hunt one down/etc" problem.
Cantinas not only heal Battle Fatigue automatically (which should probably get a boost in healing rate...takes way too long now), over time, but also provide the inspirational buffs over a VERY long time. I'm think along the lines of 30 minutes for a 5 minute buff. A "natural" buff by a cantina would only last a maximum of 1 hour, and would take approximately 1 hour to apply. That is one hour of remaining in a cantina. The closer you get to the 1 hour timeframe, the more 1:1 ratio being given to the buff duration. An actual Entertainer should provide the longer duration buffs (up to 3 hours, as proposed by the Devs).
Obviously, I can understand opposition to either suggestion, andany withopposing viewpoints should feel free to post. However, I firmly believe the UI will benefit not only us, not only our customers and their interaction with us, but the game as a whole by discouraging Entertainers from AFK'ing and providing "inspiration."
I sincerely hope that Entertainers do not become totally passive. It is oxymoronic to encourage social interactionby the general public withEntertainers by completely eliminating any need to...interact with Entertainers. At the very least, a UI for the inspiration buffs will start a dialogue outside of Spatial and will allow Entertainers who play their profession to request whatever they like for their services, and have some means of controlling the transaction.
Thanks for your time, everyone.
Warryyr
Mon Apr 04, 2005 1:53 pm
#2
As for the justification of a passive Inspiration buff in an empty cantina...well...
I have, a number of times, had some great ideas come to me in a quiet environment. Consider it similar to meditating inpeaceful surroundings. The crafter has time to consider his next item he's building. The combatant has time to reflect on all he or she's "learned" from combat (thus more xp).
The Rebel has time to think more of the evil Empire and determination grows within them to end it (more faction points).
The Imperial has time to think more of the Rebel scum terrorizing the Empire, and determination grows to destroy the rebellion (more faction points).
Peaceful and quiet contemplation can lead to a lot of focused ideas/thoughts/actions. In other words, you find inspiration in your own thoughts. Just as watching a Dancer or Musician may inspire you, so can an empty cantina.
Anyways, those are what I was thinking of when pitching the passive inspiration thing.
DarkY0da
Mon Apr 04, 2005 2:52 pm
#3
Ohh ohh I know
Bots
It solves it ju... Ohh wait a minute... pfft nvm
Here is my thoughts
Pop up Interface:
If we read what they have written it would clearly appear they strongly wish (and are planning) for this to be utterly passive on both ends(other then /watch,/listen).
An interface goes 180% the other way against what they have planned. And while it would be useful for people trying to sell said buffs. It would honestly be extremely annoying for those that are chatting, or performing. And I don't think they want us "selling" anything. We are being set back to being 98% tip based(2% being missions LOL).
And I think it only serves to frustrate and depress us to keep making suggestions that they devs have no intention of doing or goes completely against what it is they are developing.
Cantinas ect.
With how hard and slow it is to aquire BF I would gladly suggest that cantinas, PC Med Centers and any building that currently heals BF... that they all STOP healing BF. Entertainers are going to need all the BF Xp they can get. And with how easy it is to avoid gaining BF it honestly doesn't hurt anyone to FIND an entertainer once a week or two.
I would also be against the passive building Buffing as if they want it they should find an entertainer or a Bot.
Because here is a thought I had with Inspiration Buffs and the Group focus of the CU...
The game is moving back to where people want/NEED to find groups... in the current live game they are extremely hard to find. BUT if people are ALL going to the cantina to get their XP buff before heading out... it then becomes the perfect place once again to find a group.
Which is GREAT!!!!!
Bots
It solves it ju... Ohh wait a minute... pfft nvm
Here is my thoughts
Pop up Interface:
If we read what they have written it would clearly appear they strongly wish (and are planning) for this to be utterly passive on both ends(other then /watch,/listen).
An interface goes 180% the other way against what they have planned. And while it would be useful for people trying to sell said buffs. It would honestly be extremely annoying for those that are chatting, or performing. And I don't think they want us "selling" anything. We are being set back to being 98% tip based(2% being missions LOL).
And I think it only serves to frustrate and depress us to keep making suggestions that they devs have no intention of doing or goes completely against what it is they are developing.
Cantinas ect.
With how hard and slow it is to aquire BF I would gladly suggest that cantinas, PC Med Centers and any building that currently heals BF... that they all STOP healing BF. Entertainers are going to need all the BF Xp they can get. And with how easy it is to avoid gaining BF it honestly doesn't hurt anyone to FIND an entertainer once a week or two.
I would also be against the passive building Buffing as if they want it they should find an entertainer or a Bot.
Because here is a thought I had with Inspiration Buffs and the Group focus of the CU...
The game is moving back to where people want/NEED to find groups... in the current live game they are extremely hard to find. BUT if people are ALL going to the cantina to get their XP buff before heading out... it then becomes the perfect place once again to find a group.
Which is GREAT!!!!!
Warryyr
Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:44 pm
#4
Which is why I suggest the creation of a "/setinspire off" command - to avoid any annoyance, if one wished to use it. Thanks for your opinions
DarkY0da wrote:
Ohh ohh I know
Bots
It solves it ju... Ohh wait a minute... pfft nvm
Here is my thoughts
Pop up Interface:
If we read what they have written it would clearly appear they strongly wish (and are planning) for this to be utterly passive on both ends(other then /watch,/listen).
An interface goes 180% the other way against what they have planned. And while it would be useful for people trying to sell said buffs. It would honestly be extremely annoying for those that are chatting, or performing. And I don't think they want us "selling" anything. We are being set back to being 98% tip based(2% being missions LOL).
And I think it only serves to frustrate and depress us to keep making suggestions that they devs have no intention of doing or goes completely against what it is they are developing.
Cantinas ect.
With how hard and slow it is to aquire BF I would gladly suggest that cantinas, PC Med Centers and any building that currently heals BF... that they all STOP healing BF. Entertainers are going to need all the BF Xp they can get. And with how easy it is to avoid gaining BF it honestly doesn't hurt anyone to FIND an entertainer once a week or two.
I would also be against the passive building Buffing as if they want it they should find an entertainer or a Bot.
Because here is a thought I had with Inspiration Buffs and the Group focus of the CU...
The game is moving back to where people want/NEED to find groups... in the current live game they are extremely hard to find. BUT if people are ALL going to the cantina to get their XP buff before heading out... it then becomes the perfect place once again to find a group.
LyteFoot
Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:46 pm
#5
Just make it so everyone can apply the buff to themselves. Just as healing has no skill point requirements now why should your ability to contemplate and improve your focus? Lets just remove entertainers, the eye candy is too expensive to maintain anyway.
JazzHands
Mon Apr 04, 2005 11:45 pm
#6
LyteFoot wrote:
Just make it so everyone can apply the buff to themselves. Just as healing has no skill point requirements now why should your ability to contemplate and improve your focus? Lets just remove entertainers, the eye candy is too expensive to maintain anyway.
Lol, however much we may feel like that at some of... well, most of... the time, I think the OP is a step in the right direction.
If we ended up with something like Warryyr's suggestion, I'd be ecstatic.
lobber
Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:14 am
#7
I think your idea is a good one Warryyr. I have one of my own which I have suggested in the Concept thread:
1. Remove group passive buffing. (Wait for it! Read on to see why!)
2. Keep the /setp command, but no longer make it macroable.
3. When a player comes in to the cantina and asks for a buff, the entertainer targets the player and types/setp.
4. This then adds the player to a separate 'buff group' for that musician.There should be no limit to the number of people the entertainer can add to this 'buff group'. The buff group is basically like a private chat channel that only the entertainer can add people to. It could display a separate little window listing all the people currently in this buff group.
5. Once the buff is complete to the maximum time, the players name turns green in the window, and the entertainer informs the player it has complete, and clicks 'remove' to remove them from the buff group.
The 'Buff group' should be a separate 'virtual' group to the normal entertainer band groups. This allows individuals in the entertainer group to buff whole groups of people, without leaving the band group and the ability to play with lots of instruments, and therfore sound better.
The /setp command allows the entertainer to agree a fee before issuing it to the player if necessary. Perhaps the /setp command could be modifed to allow the entertainer to issue a /setp 5000 which would prompt the player 'A charge of 5000 credits is required for this buff. Do you agree?'. The player could then accept and the money is transferred to the entertainer, and the player added to the buff group. The amount could be an optional parameter which could be set andremembered so that all future /setp issued will have a charge of 5000cr.
It also prevents AFK play as it requires the entertainer to issue a non-macroable /setp command to invite them to the buff group. The higher the entertainer, the longer the buff should last. I have no qualms with a novice ent buffing for 30 mins, but a master should give a far superior buff of say 3hrs.
Looking at this, I can see ways of using ideas from yours with mine to come up with a good all round system.
Anyone else have suggestions?
psikobunny
Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:20 am
#8
I'll repost what I put there here as well.
Why can't there be a passive mechanic involved that would encourage tipping?
If the game can trigger the beginning of the buff by noticing a /watch or /listen, then why can't a bonus to the buff be triggered by the presence of a /tip command?
Have a reasonable descrease in the amount of time it takes to Inspire ( up to 33% ?)and an increase in the amount of Inspiration (add up to 10% of the bonus)tied to the amount tipped.
Just to toss out numbers, let's say 1k=1%bonus and 3% time decrease.quickly sets up a 10k per buff mechanic.
or, give Entertainers a /rate command, and players an /askrate.Then people who want to buff for free can, and people who want to charge can. the /askrate would return a sysmsg that says "Peasleblossom plays requests for Xcredits"
Did that make any sense?
I can see how my idea wouldn't overly discourage bots, but I think in combination with something like Warryyr's, it might work well.
Warryyr
Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:11 am
#9
lobber wrote:
...
Good stuff!
I like your group idea a lot - it'd be great to just get folks in a big group and take care of 'em. The /setperform command would need to be removed as a macroable command, as you said, but the group idea is really cool.
Warryyr
Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:16 am
#10
psikobunny wrote:
I'll repost what I put there here as well.
Why can't there be a passive mechanic involved that would encourage tipping?
If the game can trigger the beginning of the buff by noticing a /watch or /listen, then why can't a bonus to the buff be triggered by the presence of a /tip command?
Have a reasonable descrease in the amount of time it takes to Inspire ( up to 33% ?)and an increase in the amount of Inspiration (add up to 10% of the bonus)tied to the amount tipped.
Just to toss out numbers, let's say 1k=1%bonus and 3% time decrease.quickly sets up a 10k per buff mechanic.
or, give Entertainers a /rate command, and players an /askrate.Then people who want to buff for free can, and people who want to charge can. the /askrate would return a sysmsg that says "Peasleblossom plays requests for Xcredits"
Did that make any sense?
I can see how my idea wouldn't overly discourage bots, but I think in combination with something like Warryyr's, it might work well.
Yeah, I really like having a game mechanic encourage tipping the Entertainers. It's not as if a lot of folks won't be tipping us already, and this way it'd be even more of a bonus for them for tipping. A win-win situation for both sides of the "transaction." It would also encourage tipping by people who stiff Entertainers frequently, as they'll get a bonus if they tip.
I think this coupled with a good buffing interface and sound mechanics could improve our situation greatly. I'm all for anything that encourages tipping, because I feel bad when I tip some folks around the cantina a few thousand credits...and they're REALLY grateful...and it really isn't much. Just shows you how long some of those folks have been without any kind of tip 
Nifty
Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:17 am
#11
I'd much rather have a UI interface than have to target, /setp, deal with some separate buffing group, etc.
Warryyr's idea is straightforward and simple.
lobber
Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:49 am
#12
The reason I suggested the /setp solution is simply because thats what we have now. Its a solution with minimal dev time required and seeing as this is a combat upgrade and not a ent revamp, you can be certain thats what we will get.....minimal dev time. My suggestion takes what we have now, removes the passive group buffing which is what allows buff bots to work, stops the /setp command being macroable,and puts the whole buffing procedure in the hands of ATK entertainer.
Heres another suggestion: if you dislike having to manage the buff group, then perhaps we can use existing codethat isin game to handle that. Currently if you are listening to a player and you walk out of range, the music stops, and if you have been listening less than a minute you get a message saying so. Perhaps, when the buff is done, then the name goes green in the window and you tell the person the buff is complete. When the player issues a /stoplisten or /stopwatch, or walks out of range, then they are automatically removed from the buff group. This removes the need for you to manually remove people from groups and means the whole 'buff group' is automated. All you do is /setp on the person wanting a buff just as you do now with the added bonus of a window to show you who you are buffing and when it is complete.
I'm not saying my idea is the only right solution, just one I came up with. It can be improved, it can be changed, it can be thrown in the bin if we as a community think another way is better.
I do like Warryr's idea (even though I don't like thethought of all the pop-ups that you could get in a busy cantina, much as you dislike the idea of targetting and /setp), but I don't think they will spend the time to develop an interface for us. They have already stated the mechanics will be much as they are now.
Message Edited by lobber on 04-05-2005 05:51 PM
Nifty
Tue Apr 05, 2005 5:04 pm
#13
Obviously, if they won't make a UI, then your method is workable, lobber. I just think it would be easier on both the patron and the entertainer if the patron can easily let the entertainer know about the desire for the buff. Going off /setp the patron has to /tell the entertainer to be sure the entertainer gets the message, as spatial can be lost in a busy cantina pretty fast.
I can see where popups could irritate some. It's just a matter of personal preference.
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