Musician Archive
Thread: Poll: BF healing in Ranger camps?
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NewJedi
Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:58 pm
#1
Hi folks,
Some entertainers and Rangers have been proposing that BF healing be permitted in Ranger camps. Not any camp -- just those by Rangers, or possibly only highly-skilled Rangers. (One variant even envisions that Rangers might also be able to heal BF. Other variants include autohealing of BF, slowly, in Ranger camps.)
Without getting into all the possible details, what do you think of the general idea? Should BF healing ever be permitted in Ranger camps?Those who favor such a change argue that it might make it easier to find entertainers, that it might get us out of the cantina more often, and that it would give some much-needed love to Rangers. Skeptics argue that it will undermine the cantina (and its variants, such as the theater, hotel, guildhall, house), which is currently the only place to heal BF. This has been the traditional dev view.
What do you all think? Comments are welcome, but can you also give me a general "Yes" (favor BF healing in Ranger camps generally) or "No" (don't favor it generally).
hawkbatleader1
Thu Aug 05, 2004 7:12 pm
#2
This has been asked for by ents and rangers since about day 2. Rangers are still waiting for fixes promised back in september of last year, that affect their personal efficiency.
This would be a step in the right direction, but i'd prefer to see this come with a finalization of the ranger revamp thats been promised for over a year.
And... the real question is...would it work?
would the social entertainers who exist to entertain (and have such a stong aversion to the combat types and gamestyle) actually participate?
If not...its another halfa$$ed proposal to fix 2 groups of players that will be inneffective...
just like disabling recursive macros to end the afk bots in cantinas
Drygo
Thu Aug 05, 2004 7:34 pm
#3
hawkbatleader1 wrote:
This has been asked for by ents and rangers since about day 2. Rangers are still waiting for fixes promised back in september of last year, that affect their personal efficiency.
This would be a step in the right direction, but i'd prefer to see this come with a finalization of the ranger revamp thats been promised for over a year.
And... the real question is...would it work?
would the social entertainers who exist to entertain (and have such a stong aversion to the combat types and gamestyle) actually participate?
If not...its another halfa$$ed proposal to fix 2 groups of players that will be inneffective...
just like disabling recursive macros to end the afk bots in cantinas
As an entertainer and a combat player, I would definitely participate. I often do already and I just think it's cool when camp is set up and I can mind buff people...I think it'd be even better if I could heal BF as well.
Equatorsm
Thu Aug 05, 2004 8:00 pm
#4
I remember the days when people would hire me to come on hunting trips... We'd spend hours running around on adventure planets and we had a lot of fun. But with player cities and speeders, camps have been made obsolete, so this change would only be a novelty of a time passed, in my opinion.
Echinacea
Thu Aug 05, 2004 8:26 pm
#5
Yes, please. The ones with crafting stations should be advanced enough to heal Battle Fatigue in.
hawkbatleader1
Thu Aug 05, 2004 8:31 pm
#6
It should be available at a lower level. the camp that comes with a crafting station costs more skill points to achieve than master musician or master dancer.
these players can place a permanent structure anywhere that does the same effect as a camp...and has storage capabilites....
most rangers have given up the mastery in favor of the hunting tree only...due to the lack of benefits provided by the other three trees....
It would not be effective to have it high up on the skill trees....so it would be yet another halfa$$ed proposal to throw a bone to these classes
Angelstars77
Thu Aug 05, 2004 9:13 pm
#7
hawkbeatleader1 had this to say....
It should be available at a lower level. the camp that comes with a crafting station costs more skill points to achieve than master musician or master dancer.
these players can place a permanent structure anywhere that does the same effect as a camp...and has storage capabilites....
most rangers have given up the mastery in favor of the hunting tree only...due to the lack of benefits provided by the other three trees....
It would not be effective to have it high up on the skill trees....so it would be yet another halfa$$ed proposal to throw a bone to these classes
----------------------------------------------
Wow think before you post...
Who cares how many skill points they spend? What does that have to do with anything? And who said anything about it being a master dancer or musican. Maybe a novice wants to go on a hunt? Points have nothing to do with anything about what he is asking.
Since when can you place a house on Yavin4, Dath or Endor?So i'm out in the field and i'm going to have a small house on me to just place where ever? Oh wait make sure it's flat with not even the slightest wave in the ground or a hole or anything! You know only camps can turn a peaked mountain flat!
I think it should be ranger only tents. Plain and simple. They spend the skill points to be best at being an outdoorsmen. Ginving it to the scout tree or even lower in the rangertreewould be an insult to the prof.
Besides like another person said..people don't use tents anyway, but for Yavin4, Dath or endor where some like to hunt the big game. Those places don't have ents unless it's bring your own.
Anyway i'm not sure if it's even a good idea. Then when would they go to cantinas at all?
I mightgo as a master dancer, giving buffs to theguys and galsasking for maybe some hide and bone in return for my tailoring.
Flame away it's all people do on these boards. A person can't ask a simple question without a raving loon giving his two washers camoflaged as 2 cents.
Straker_Atrella
Fri Aug 06, 2004 1:43 am
#8
I vote yes.
Camps were devalued a lot a few months back when they made it possible to call a droid or a pet pretty much anywhere.
Plus with vehicles, and player cities, it's very rare you are that far from civilization. Even on Dath you can ride back fairly quickly.
Make tents usefull again.
Allow Entertainers to heal BF at ANY level of camp.
At the highest levels of Ranger camp, maybe the top 2, let them kill BF slowly by just sitting there.
JohnMarble
Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:02 am
#9
The idea with battle fatigue was to have at least ONE thing that would force people to go back to town. It's sort of a convention of RPG's, the go back to town for equipment/heals. A person could conceivably never enter a city again, except if they ever felt like leaving the planet.
Inpractice, though, I think that person would be rare to nonexistant. So I suppose I'd say yes, but only in the top ranger camp (the thing has all the comforts of home, so it does make sense). Healing should be equivalent to sitting in a medical center.
SmedleyLlama
Fri Aug 06, 2004 9:12 am
#10
I wouldn't worry too much about it. Camps have had the ability to heal everything but BF since day one and people still need doctors and medics.
Aleyo wrote:
I do fear a large exodus of customers from the static city cantinas, as a significant portion of them are those who only come to get their BF healed and go on their way. Even though these people may not be the most sociable people, it does make you feel like you're doing a worthwhile thing by entertaining in the cantina.
Springbok
Fri Aug 06, 2004 9:44 am
#11
Here is a link of the major discussion, brought up in the dancer forums:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=dancer&message.id=29380&jump=true
I would like to reiterate one thing to all the doubters: As far as I have read, and in talking with other rangers, and in my own opinion, Rangers do NOT WANT to be able to heal over time BF without entertainers present. As a matter of fact it seems that notion is being turned away. But rather the mere option of allowing entertainers, and in no other way shape or form only entertainers to be able to heal BF in camps. Personally,
I vote that you only allow it to take place in the ranger frontiering 4 (highest lvl camp there is) camp, and only Musicians / Dancers are able to heal in them, aka no scouts, no entertainers. Not only any musician either, but enable the skill at wound healing 2 or 3, this way the keepers of the professions are the ones that truly benefit, and further more no class can possibly become obsolete in this BF discussion...
This comes from someone who is a master musician / master entertainer on one server and a master ranger on another. And I am currently working on making a master ranger / master musician on the test center.
StikerRunningfly
Fri Aug 06, 2004 12:00 pm
#12
hawkbatleader1 wrote:
It should be available at a lower level. the camp that comes with a crafting station costs more skill points to achieve than master musician or master dancer. What version of math are you using where 106 is less than 92? Anyway, it's a matter of making sure that all players need some diversity in the group. 1 person is not meant to be totally self sufficient in this game (without multiple accounts) and groups were not meant to be made up of all the same template (i.e. 20 fencer/TKM/riflemen are going to have a problem having everything that they need). I can't see someone burning 92-97 skillpoints just to have the camp, so the choices are go without, or find a ranger. Gee do you think if people needed rangers for something there might be a few people taking up the slack?
these players can place a permanent structure anywhere that does the same effect as a camp...and has storage capabilites.... Sure, as long as you're not on Yavin, Endor, or Dathomir, and as long as you're on a 100% flat area. If my choices were to go to a different planet, walk 500-2000 meters till I could find a spot to drop a house, or drop a camp right where I'm standing, guess which I'm going to want to do? Besides, even the small house costs 800 to redeed each time where the camp just cost the metal you used (the rest you harvested from creaturesand there is a free, endless supply all around you)
most rangers have given up the mastery in favor of the hunting tree only...due to the lack of benefits provided by the other three trees.... I'm a ranger, and guess what? I've masterd it and kept master. Most of the other rangers I know are either a master or on their way to master. The ones who just have the TRACKING (not hunting) branch are mostly the bounty hunters who want the ability to track jedi when they get closer to their marks. If you don't believe me, take a look at the ranger forum, at the thread named "The complete ranger by galaxy list". Look at all those sigs that say master ranger.
It would not be effective to have it high up on the skill trees....so it would be yet another halfa$$ed proposal to throw a bone to these classes As someone who has both a ranger, and an entertainer, I don't see it as a "halfa$$ed proposal". I see benefits in this. People have to understand that there's no magic "fix my BF now button". The dev team will definately need to make considerations, and this proposal sounds like a reasonable one. A bad choice would be to throw BF healing into all camps (unless it's EXTREMELY minimal on the lower levels**), thus taking away the role of the entertainer completely. Besides, the more you take from the entertainers who are trying to grind their ways to dancer and musiciannow, the longer it's going to take to master their professions, which means that the void that everyone is afraid of with dancers and musicians not being present in any kind of force will be very real.
My comments are in green.
Vandilar Darkwave
Master Carbineer/Ranger
Kettemoor
Klayton
Master Entertainer/Musician/Dancer
Shadowfire
** The reference to slow BF healing in smaller camps is as follows:
Basic camp - heals 1 BF per cycle
Multiperson camp - heals 2 BF per cycle
Improved camp - heals 3 BF per cycle
High Quality camp - heals 4 BF per cycle
Field Base - heals 5 BF per cycle
High Tech Field Base - heals 6 BF per cycle
This proposal would allow BF to be healed in all camps, similar to the way wounds are now, but still give a bonus to the higher level camps. But as you can see, in any case, it would still be a better benefit to visit an entertainer. This was proposed by me on a similar thread in the dancer forum. Currently, BF will heal in a player city medical center, but it is only 3 per cycle (similar to the camp able to be crafted at survival 4 in my proposal), however it is not severely out of balance because it would literally take hours to heal up a couple hundred BF. Similarly, BF could be healed by entertainers in all camps as long as they take the camp's healing modifier into consideration (0.65 in basic would mean that an entertainer can only heal 65% as fast as he would in a cantina, and 1.0 in a HTFB would mean that an entertainer can heal at the same rate as he can in a cantina. This is the same way healing works in camps by medics and doctors without the use of droids (no, entertainers should not have droids like medics do, you'd see cantinas empty out faster than the medical centers did, with every "I wanna get rich" personality hitting the road charging 15k per mind buff by the starports). I really don't think everyone is going to start burning 97 skillpoints just to not visit cantinas).I'd also like to hear any thoughts on this particular idea.
Then there's the modular camp idea, which is given in detail on the ranger forums.
Message Edited by StikerRunningfly on 08-06-2004 12:15 AM
StikerRunningfly
Fri Aug 06, 2004 12:29 pm
#13
NewJedi wrote:
(One variant even envisions that Rangers might also be able to heal BF. Other variants include autohealing of BF, slowly, in Ranger camps.)
Just to make it clear, it's not suggesting that rangers replace dancers and musicians:
1) BF auto heals in camps, slowly, over time. But if an entertainer is present, it works the same as in a cantina. The main problem I see with this proposal is that it's suggested that BF would heal faster than it would if you actually visited a novice entertainer. "and never let it heal faster than what you would get from a novice musician/dancer (but higher than a novice entertainer, based on level)"
2) BF does not heal over time, but if an entertainer is present, the camp will work the same as a cantina.
(Please see the footnote of my above post for my ideas)
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