Musician Archive

AFK To your hearts content! Perhaps if it was MORE FUN to sit there and play music people may stay in their seats. But as it is it is one of the most humdrum things in the game in my opinion. I don't ask for tips. I actually have gone to the areas where they are lacking musicians just so I could heal, converse and actually see where the healing was doing some good. But then again I also go afk to read, to watch Robot Wars etc... I don't just yank their healing out from under them.

Think Proactive not Punitive please!

Elizbeth

Okay, my thoughts on this issue:

For people that want to punish those with the AFK status:
It has been said that this status can be fooled. I'm unsure as to the validity of that statement. If it is true, then all those suggestions all pretty much wasted time. Also, will this punish people with an AFK tag up who are out actively playing? Many popular crafters have an AFK tag up while they want to go hunt and not deal with customers.

The issue of AFKing itself: It is against the EULA, and bad form. Sony does not have to offer proof of the condition to ban someone because of it. They simply would be hard pressed to do so because of the PR aspects.

To those who say we need them, as there are not enough entertainers to go around:
Are there not at least 50 people with the 'novice entertainer' skill on your server? That's all you would need to man every city on each planet. There is just little incentive for entertainers to go where no one hangs out, since entertaining is all about hanging out with people. Those planets are tough. Rough it a bit, or create some incentive for entertainers.

To those discussing the popups:
Artisan popups I found useful when I was an artisan. I was guaranteed to get a sample if I took the option it gave me. So far as a popup for musicians, you need to look at the design of the artisan popup. Sampling yields resources as a primary product. XP is a side effect. What would a popup for entertaining yield? The product of entertaining is entertainment and healing, and sometimes a buff. XP is still a side product. If popups were to be integrated, the reward should be either: added entertainment (a hidden flourish/light show/effect/sound), added healing (e.g. extra boost of 50 for the next cycle), or a buff bonus (if already buffing, a boost of speed, or a special buff just for watching for everyone. Now that's a reward.) These events should always yield better results if the option is taken, because success as an entertainer is guaranteed as it stands now. As an artisan, there is the incentive that the sample event will always yield something, as opposed to a chance of failure. With our consistent success in healing/buffing/etc, we need a guaranteed boost in healing/buffing/etc.

For those suggesting a /dump command be issued:
Macros are handled by the client, not the server. I'm assuming the suggestion is a server-side /dump, rather than altering how the client handles macros. A server would not be able to issue a /dump command, since the macro is not loaded into the server, only the client. Even if I'm wrong, think about any effects on artisans being AFK as I brought up before.

My suggestions: Don't worry about this problem. I have yet to see a proper, elegant solution. Any of these suggestions would have an effect on gameplay, but I am not convinced that the overall effect would be positive. I am intrigued by my take on the popups, but am worried about the timing good entertainers use in their flourishes/lyrics/music changes/costume changes/etc. How would a popup affect this timing? It can't stop the song of an AFK player to solve that problem and not stop the song of a legitimate player, if the model of sampling popups is followed. I do not like AFK players, and I wish they wouldn't, but I'm going to have to say that this problem is more of a battle vs. player intent that a simple gameplay fix. Let's concentrate on the gameplay options many of us as musicans/dancers/entertainers want.

Thanks for reading this far.

---Kaiye
Kettemoor

I afk'd all the way to Master Muscian and will prob. afk to Dancer. Dancing in one spot for hours and hours on end with the same boring conversation and same scenery isn't fun, but I did it so my scout on my 2nd account can get buffed for free with no hassle. Plus i can get my laundry done, and dishes too Its fun to socialize for a lil while, but it gets tiring after a while. My 2 cents.

There must be a difference between AFK macroing and someone who has written an entire song and plays using a macro.............

In a good group, you can run from Hunting I to Hunting IV in about 2-3 hours of game play... Try this with Musicianship....

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I did. I made a new char on a european server to see if we really have a better ping and if this matters any ( it doesn't, lags are the same and probably don't result from ping spikes ). I went though three boxes of musician and heal xp in under two hours with attended macroing.

Macroing Is fine the way it is for us who only have few hours of play on any single day.

Ican come in and choose who I want. Iselect someone who is their so I can chat. Oh what if they are not their. Who Cares. I have 1 or 2hours of game play for that morning I want my 600 or 1000BF healed quickly. I dont want to waste my 2 hours healing Mind damage. BTW. 1000 is max BF you can generate.

Full groups. Never seen it. Most I have seen in any one group is 12, on my server. 6 Dancers, 4 Musicians and this one had 2 medics. They were Healing them. Hmm.. Guess you will have to Nerf it for the Medics to. Yep I have seen it many times. Medics Love AFK Enterainers/Dancers/Musicians. That is Free Healing xp they can generate, which they can even macro. Seen that a Macro medic Healing Macro Dancer.

So far Most Fighting classes and Medical Classes will argue that, hmm...I would rather have an AFK Enterainers/Dancers/Musicians then not one at all. Now if your server has a problem with AFK Enterainers/Dancers/Musicians filling up your rooms you need to go to YOUR Server board and do something about it. But on the less populated servers this is a benifit that we like.

Oh and the suggestion of Booting someone who is afk....that is already in system, if you are not running a Macro. So if you want to stop Macroing Ask SOE to remove Macro Engine from game.

OOPS Can't !! cause all of those Wonder buttons you usein game....Those are Macros.

My apologies if I offend anyone, but until you can say you Played Entertainer through to Master Dancer or Musician and never use a macro once you cannot say that AFK macro is ruining anything. 80% of the players in this game will agree to this.

Lastly I will say that when you chat it up and interact with people who come in, they will listen to you and tip you well. But if you stand there and just play, like your are macroing and say nothing, then you are just macroing. Cause you have to use those buttons to Flourish,you are just macroing manually and will not go afk. There are many other Majors issues in this game that need to be fixed then this REALLY Minor issue, in relation to the server I am on.

Please do not put pop up boxes in....

But rather make healing only work in hotel certain times, and cantina other times.

Big city AFK issues solved.

Now as for the 'service' provided by ghost town afk's, well if you call devalueing a service provided by others a service, then you are misdirected.

The first profession I have mastered was musician. Now I use AFK tip spamming as a joke. But then now I joined a guild and most of my playing is done for guild members.

The state of the musician profession. The bigest problems is that not only canit be played by people that are not even at their computer, a large number prefer to do it when not at their PC. How can anyone say it is right or fun. Cmon the AFKers are admitting that it is not fun for them, so they ruin it for the rest of us. Is that playing?

This is stupid. SOE included an ingame macro system, now you're trying to find ways to make people not use it... Why?
I am fully aware that there is a sentence in the EULA speaking against unattended gameplay. However, if I run a macro and just sit at my desk and watch xp flowing in, it's NOT unattended gameplay, I AM paying attention to the game, just not pressing any buttons on my keyboard...

Anyway, I should be done macroing my musician xp this evening so I shouldn't really care, however I am concerned about what will the poor holo entertainers do if what you're proposing will really come true (though I doubt that very much, even SOE can't be THAT stupid).

Fixes for AFKing... what is unattended gameplay ? the second you stop typing or clicking your mouse and your avatare keeps doing something and gaining xp ?

Is it 30 seconds of you not hitting a key or clicking your mouse... A minute ? 2 ?

My suggestion is this... if you are AFK for an hour you get logged. An hour is longer then I would like but it's a compromise and certainly better then having someone afk for days on end.

Macros are good. Macros are great and lovely. Macros help players. Macros make the game more enjoyable.

macro's and AFKing are not the same thing. I do not want the DEVs to nerf macro's in a extremly flawed attempt at fixing AFKing.

I do not want pop ups. I don't want to be in the middle of talking to someone or putting on a show and have a pop up show up as I hit enter and screw me up.

So if we log people off after a certain time of being AFK... those that wish to do things afk will simply not put up an AFK tag... what do we do then ?

checking for keystrokes can be gotten around.

I did this in one of the other forums.. maybe it was here not sure.. but

How about the DEVs focus on fixing the things that cause someone that enjoys a class and the game to start to AFK.

1. Grinding.... right now heal xp sucks.. I currently need 200k + healing xp... it comes at an extremely slow pace... It is tempting at times to just go AFK go to sleep so that I can maybe gain an extra 20k xp while I'm sleeping.

2. Adventure planets... what great fun it is to sit around wait for hours on end for people to stop by the cantina(that you can't register at to let them know your there). Sure I can bring a group of entertainers to sit around waiting for hours on so that it's not as boring but still...

3. Missions... if missions were worthwhile or entertaining... I would do them.(aka more incentive to be ATK)

4. NPC's in cantinas as content...(have them ask people to play certain song for them or a dance or something but NO popup)

5. Content involving enterainers in the GCW.

6. Give entertainers some sort of camp ability or battle ability. I know some people don't like this but you know what it will give those people that AFK because they can't stand sitting in a cantina all day some place else to go...(it would also allow them to be useful in a group setting for those large pay out missions)

I think AFKing for the most part is a content/lack of issue+holocrons. You give people a slight downside to being afk for long periods of time. And some more entertainment and content for being ATK and a good portion of AFKers will disappear. If you simply try and nerf afking you will get people using third party programs and not using AFK tags causing even worse problems then if they were to wear the tags. If you Nerf macros... then youhurt everyone except those who want to afk as they will go with a third party program.

Something does need to be done. But nothing should be rushed into. And I don't want to see anything done with out first informing all entertainers what they are thinking about doing to fix it. So that we can then give them feed back.

1.) missions that requier you hit specific flourishes inorder to compleat

2.) one on one healing sesions that you can perform with a client, that also requier specific *random* florishes to compleat

3.) realize that whatever you do to 'kick' or 'unxp' an AFKer you WILL get people working around it, and all you'll be doing is hurting people who are in a distant cantina that no one else will ocupie and providing a valuble service during the day by leaving the computer on and providing some healing.

this 1, 2, 3 punch against AFKers will give the actual musicians much more game, and not atack people because they arn't "doing as much work" as you. end the sour grapes! ASK FOR BETTER GRAPES!

Gahh.. the AFKers vs. The Real Entertainers again.

If I read what the correspondent asked; the devs don't want to nerf entertainers or make it MORE boring and pointless (like popping up random boxes like the sampling skill does), they'd like to give players an incentive to voluntarily be at the keyboard. Not torture them...

I posted this suggestion at the end of my Cantinas -vs- player houses question...

Add a command, like /setperform. Perhaps call it /recognize, or /welcome that only works in an actual cantina. You target a player, then use the command. Provided they listen to you, you get a small amount of credits for however much wounds/BF you healed. Say... 1 cr for every 4 wounds/BF. It's a small amount, but if you're NOT AFK, you get yourself some cash... call it your pay from the cantina. Then, a /tip would actually be a TIP too. Not your sole ability to make money.

Voila... AFKers are happy. Their beloved XP flourish macro isn't harmed.

Voila... The Real Entertainers are mildly happy. They get the cash they've been whining they never get. For a player that cloned in the wrong place, coming to you with 100 mind wound & 100 BF, that's 50cr for you, even if the miserable ingrate can't be bothered to tip. From ONE player. This still doesn't give as much as a mission, nor as much as I used to be able to get from whacking those wussy NPC gangs, but over time it would help.

I'm sure the Devs could figure out what the average amount of healing an entertainer does per day, and come up with some reasonable cash figure per point healed.

Just FYI, on my server at least, I'd guesstimate that less than 20% of the players tip me, even when I'm not AFK, and I talk to them. But then, I'm not a half-nekkid ho writhing around in their lap. =) Maybe they get more...

ATTN: Devs -- you left in the original name of the 'entertainment district' in your advanced guide to player cities. =)

Okay, I've read through this entire thread. Be afraid simply on that level. I'm that bored at work. I'd never read something like this at home, I'm busy playing SWG.

Speaking of work, let's apply a little basic troubleshooting logic to this issue. The whole basis of fixing computer problems boils down to figuring out what caused the problem in the first place and fixing THAT, so it doesn't happen again.

Why do people AFK macro in the first place?

1. It's a seriously long-arse grind through Entertaining. Whether you're going after Master Entertainer, Musician, Dancer or all of the above...that's a lot of time listening to a very limited number of sounds or performing a limited number of movements. It gets boring as hell.


2. Which brings us to the next problem. I couldn't ever have made it through Master Entertainer and Composer the first time I did so without turning my sound off. That just strikes me as something fundamentally wrong...I'm playing a Musician, with my sound off. The music is that bad when it's repeated that much.


3. Because I can.

Solutions:

1. Tremendously increase the amount of xp granted from being in groups with other performers. I mean a lot! Then being grouped would really mean something, like it does for combat. In a good group, you can really rack it up. The only times I've ever gotten comparable xp performing were the times I played in the Coronet Cantina to a full house with a full group. It doesn't take that much for combat, and don't give me that old line about combat being overpowered. It's been that way for too long now for that to wash. Bring the other things up to combat's level.


2. Same things so many others say...put in more songs and instruments. I don't expect this to happen, as it would involve a lot of new sound & graphic files and animations.


3. Remove the /ui action toolbarSlot## command from the game and/or enable an auto-disconnect after a set period of no keyboard/mouse activity. Macros would still work just fine, but you could still get in abouta 1.5 hour music macro...I know, I had one before I knew about the recursive command. That can only be fixed by an auto-disconnect.

Until the /ui action toolbarSlot## command is removed, and an auto-disconnect is enabled whereby non-interaction via keyboard or mouse for XX minutes boots you from the game world, I will continue to macro. If the parts of the game that I macro through weren't so **edit** boring, I wouldn't feel the need to macro, now would I? Pop-ups aren't the answer. It doesn't stop AFK sampling, it's easy to get around.

I really think the only answer is an auto-disconnect. If someone resorts to 3rd party software methods to get around that, that is actionable. Using in-game tools is merely frowned upon...and y'all can frown all you want. Make it interesting and I'll have a reason not to do it. Until it's more interesting to be at my keyboard doing some things than it is to do housework (!) there will be times I'll be AFK. I put the tag up, put myself in an out-of-the-way spot and am there for healing if no one else is. When I am at my keyboard, it's easy to tell. I emote darn near constantly, talk to other players and try very hard to greet/welcome/nod/wave/smile at every person who comes into the Cantina...most of whom /listen to me, sit down...and go AFK.

Either you think it's an atrocious phenomenon, or you don't. Those of us on either end of the spectrum aren't going to change the minds of our opposites. I really don't see any point in posting long rants about how much you hate AFK macroing, or even why it needs to be an option. Post a solution or get off the soapbox.

My apologies if I offend anyone, but until you can say you Played Entertainer through to Master Dancer or Musician and never use a macro once you cannot say that AFK macro is ruining anything.

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I can't ? Well, I am. How does my buffing macro concern you when I'm at the keys ? What does my macro have to do with egoistic exploitive cheating ? Yes, from the outside Macrotaining might not be a problem. I tell you something, critical assembly failures don't concern me either.I buy a finished product, I don't care if you crit fail while creating it. For Architects, maybe Macrotaining is not a problem. But this is the entertainer board, and for entertainers, this is a problem.

This is stupid. SOE included an ingame macro system, now you're trying to find ways to make people not use it... Why?

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This is stupid. God included a system to make weapons in his creation, now you're trying to find ways to make people not use it... why ?Get real, just because there is a way to do something doesn't make it right or even legal.

Post a solution or get off the soapbox.

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Simple. Enforce the rules. Warn offenders. Ban offenders when caught by a CSR repeatedly. This happens in other games, it cannot be so hard here.