Musician Archive
Thread: From your Correspondent: inviting suggestions on AFK'ing
sleepdepzombie wrote:
Ok, I know I've posted on this thread a couple of times before but here's an idea i can't think i've seen anywhere else. On a rancom interval between 30 & 90 min have the server /dump every macro currently running in the game. Each of the servers are actually broken into several subservers so it wouldn't have to happen all at once just each server within a few minutes of the others. Only people still at thier keyboards would know to restart a macro the rest would just wind down naturally. It woldn't be a particularly jarring moment because it wouldn't stop anyone from actually playng initially. Keep it reasonably infrequent so as to not be really annoying but it would kill all of the AFK macroing in the game. Of course, this can still be circumvented with 3rd party stuff. However, just about any solution short of making AFK macroing a bannable offense (something I don't ever see happening nor do i think i would want to).
Ouch, this would really be a bad idea, especially if other professions found out that musicians were the ones that suggested it. I admit that this would work if, and only if we were the only profession using macros, but we are just one of them. People use macro's to just switch armor and weapons during combat, can you imagine this being dumped midstream?? How about mid performance with a band, say at a wedding?? I think the idea that someone put out of providing incentive to people at the keyboard is by far the best idea. Provide a benefit to sticking around and people will, but don't nerf a useful system.
Miidas wrote:
...Just because you've invented rules for your own behaviour ("I must be present while performing") don't inflict them on me, I'm not interested in your rules or your whining.
7. You acknowledge that you are bound by the terms and conditions of the Software License and Limited Warranty that accompanies the Game. You acknowledge and agree that you have not and will not acquire or obtain any intellectual property or other rights, including any right of exploitation, of any kind in or to the software, artwork, music, and other components included in the accompanying CD-ROM (the "Software") or the Game, including, without limitation, in any character(s), item(s), coin(s) or other material or property. You may not use any third party software to modify the Software or to change game play. You may not create, facilitate, host, link to or provide any other means through which the Game may be played by others, such as through server emulators; additionally, you may not engage in matchmaking for multi-player play over unauthorized networks. You may not decrypt or modify any data transmitted between client and server; you may not use or distribute macros or other programs which would allow unattended game play. You may not take any action which imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load (as determined by us) on our infrastructure. You may not buy, sell or auction (or host or facilitate the ability to allow others to buy, sell or auction) any Account or any Game characters, items, credits or copyrighted material or any other intellectual property owned or controlled by us or our licensors.
Sounds to me like SOE "invented" the rules for our behaviour. It's a little thing called EULA that you agree to every time you log in.
Now, my solution, based on one that's been mentioned before: The "Musician Event" pop-up box. Like the sampling box, but instead of stopping your music/dance, it just stops any XP gain until you make a choice. Flourishes still go off, healing still occurs. Performances are not interrupted, just XP gain. After you click the appropriate box, you gain XP once more.
The content for these boxes and the frequency are up for discussion. Personally, I'd like to see events similar to the sampling boxes, "Do flourishes 7, 3, and 6 for a bonus 250xp". Hit "Okay!", do the flourishes and get your bonus. Don't hit Okay!, and you get no XP until you do.
This is a little late but oh well......nvoigt so what you are saying is hospitals shouldnt be able to heal you either huh? I'm sorry but there just arent enough entertainers to go around I dont want to have to come back to all these populated cites to GET HEALED im not talking about buffs or pets or camps etc. This is just to get me back to fighting condition.
Please think before you post next time I wasnt asking for the world just for healing. And maybe I am out of touch I'll admit that now but everytime I go into a bar I first go to anyone who greeted me personally and tip all the live entertainers at least 500 even if I didnt listen or watch them....Im not against you guys but with the way this game is set up at this point I still need those afk entertainers in those ghost towns to heal me every so often. Being a CH is dangerous business and I dont want to go back to bestine or coronet everytime I get DB without cloning.
I can agree with all of you about the problem with musicain, dancer and enterner going AFK while playing . I for one go AFK rarely and I do tell everyone in the group or in the cantina that i am going. I do not use marco setup to run my character in automatic. I find most of the character like to the dancer ,musician to be active. For me personnel i like greeting everyone that come into the cantina onless a large crowd come in for healing.
name: Llehoge
Sever: Naritus
FOO007 wrote:
Miidas wrote:
...Just because you've invented rules for your own behaviour ("I must be present while performing") don't inflict them on me, I'm not interested in your rules or your whining.
7. You acknowledge that you are bound by the terms and conditions of the Software License and Limited Warranty that accompanies the Game. You acknowledge and agree that you have not and will not acquire or obtain any intellectual property or other rights, including any right of exploitation, of any kind in or to the software, artwork, music, and other components included in the accompanying CD-ROM (the "Software") or the Game, including, without limitation, in any character(s), item(s), coin(s) or other material or property. You may not use any third party software to modify the Software or to change game play. You may not create, facilitate, host, link to or provide any other means through which the Game may be played by others, such as through server emulators; additionally, you may not engage in matchmaking for multi-player play over unauthorized networks. You may not decrypt or modify any data transmitted between client and server; you may not use or distribute macros or other programs which would allow unattended game play. You may not take any action which imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load (as determined by us) on our infrastructure. You may not buy, sell or auction (or host or facilitate the ability to allow others to buy, sell or auction) any Account or any Game characters, items, credits or copyrighted material or any other intellectual property owned or controlled by us or our licensors.
Sounds to me like SOE "invented" the rules for our behaviour. It's a little thing called EULA that you agree to every time you log in.
Now, my solution, based on one that's been mentioned before: The "Musician Event" pop-up box. Like the sampling box, but instead of stopping your music/dance, it just stops any XP gain until you make a choice. Flourishes still go off, healing still occurs. Performances are not interrupted, just XP gain. After you click the appropriate box, you gain XP once more.
The content for these boxes and the frequency are up for discussion. Personally, I'd like to see events similar to the sampling boxes, "Do flourishes 7, 3, and 6 for a bonus 250xp". Hit "Okay!", do the flourishes and get your bonus. Don't hit Okay!, and you get no XP until you do.
Very old argument, and since a) SOE designed the macro system, b) they added the toolslot command, c) they allow you to call macro files off your computer, and d) the burden of proof is on SOE, which is impossible to prove, you get e) an unenforcable clause that has no legal ramifications whatsoever. SOE didn't invent the EULA, thier lawyers did, with the intent of sueing people/companies that infringe on thier ability to make money. Since a player pays to play, using in game systems, the EULA is absolutely worthless in this argument andin fact, the EULA is there to protect their gameplay.
Next, what you are proposing is still nothing more than an inconvience to people at the keyboard. Like I have said, the /survey pop-up box did nothing to stop people from /afk play, it just gave additional headaches to people actually at the keyboard. Do you think anyone using a macro perfomance with specific timed flourishes is gonna appreciate a box popping up saying do this for more xp?? Do you think a master musician will appreciate it?? Do you think a afk'r will care?? No, because they will not affect him anymore then they affect an afk sampler. It also won't stop an afk person who is after money rather than xp.
This is a little late but oh well......nvoigt so what you are saying is hospitals shouldnt be able to heal you either huh? I'm sorry but there just arent enough entertainers to go around I dont want to have to come back to all these populated cites to GET HEALED im not talking about buffs or pets or camps etc. This is just to get me back to fighting condition.
So, as you sit in an empty hospital having no medic, go sit in an empty cantina with no entertainer. It will heal your BF and mind wounds. Just at the slow rate hospitals do in comparison to real medics. If there aren't enough entertainers, how come I don't feel a strong demand ? I can't shoot, I'm not a fighter. Should I get myself a combat afkbot because of that ? No. I will group with live people and play, or I will not fight.
Please think before you post next time I wasnt asking for the world just for healing. And maybe I am out of touch I'll admit that now but everytime I go into a bar I first go to anyone who greeted me personally and tip all the live entertainers at least 500 even if I didnt listen or watch them....Im not against you guys but with the way this game is set up at this point I still need those afk entertainers in those ghost towns to heal me every so often. Being a CH is dangerous business and I dont want to go back to bestine or coronet everytime I get DB without cloning.
Well, being arifleman is dangerous, too... I would like to have an AFK CH to tank for me... is that ok ? And an AFK medic to heal me ? How about an AFK architect to give me a house for free ?
You don't need a Macrotainer. The game worked without them just fine. If you need an entertainer there, how about asking one ?
AFK macroing is fine. Please do not ask the dev's to do something we'll regret later.
My reasons for this are summarized:
- AFK macroing (with no spatial spam and in a corner) is non-intrusive on real performers.
- Anyone who would pass on a live entertainer to sit and listen to an AFK'er
instead of alive person there chattingwould not havetipped you anyway. - On some servers (maybe not all) there are not enough entertainers, AFK'ers in out-of-the-way
places provide a service that is needed and keeps the game flowing.
Now I know that I've made some caveats up above. Yes, I agree that having someone AFK spatial spam the room as they sit and play is annoying. I've seen it myself fromsomeone actually*asking for tips* while they were AFK macroing (they even acknowledge in thespam they are AFK) That's why we have /ignore. I'm not sure about if the person is standing in the middle of the room, maybe move your band over to the corner?...Say hello to anyone walking in and I'm sure they'll move towards you rather than the statue that's playing in the middle of the room. Have a couple of people walk by and /slap the AFK'er. That's usually good for a few laughs from the cantina. And I know I've appreciated (and tipped) other musicians who are AFK'ing in remote cantinas. Because we NEED them there. Otherwise it's a long trip back.
No matter what the dev's do, AFK'ing will not stop.
We need to all agree that this is a true statement. If we don't, and believe that somehow by annoying people enough and changing things enough we can stop AFK'ing (insert anything here), we're setting ourselves up for nerf's and changes that cause inconvenience to us and does nothing to alleviate the problem.
I beg you. Please do not put pop-ups into the music system!
Now, I've seen the Artisan AFK Surveying mentioned many times in this thread. I can speak from experience on both sides of the fence on this issue.
I see the Survey pop-ups being held up as an example of how you can stop AFK macroing using annoyance. I have a hard enough time talking and playing at the same time, the last thing I want in a crowded cantina is aboxpopping up in the middle of my screen as I try to target the new person walking in to greet them and see "Hey You! Do this xxx and you might get 2 extra points!". I don't care. I just want to play and talk and enjoy myself.
Now let's talk about the great and wonderful Survey AFK-busting pop-up. I have Survey IV, have had it quite a while (since about 2 weeks after launch). I still use it when prospecting. The pop-ups are worthless. The rewards they give are, in a word, worthless. By costing me a full sample round (now it's like 20-30 seconds of time *wasted*) I have the *possiblilty* of getting an extra 5-30 minerals or *maybe* finding a location with a few percentage points more than I had. For me as a prospector, I don't care how much I get, as long as I get at least 1 unit. And if I were an Artisan, 30 units is nothing. Now, give me like 200-300 units and THAT'S something. Would the dev's ever consider that? No. Because that is unbalancing to the game. And the dev's will never do *anything* to purposefully unbalance the game in their eyes.
Can I still AFK sample? You bet, I see friends of mine doing it all the time. Has it slowed them down any? Not in the least. Is it annoying to everyone else? Yes.
So what have we accomplished by annoying the 95% of the playerbase that was just plodding along playing the game? Nothing. The 5% (and that's a VERY high estimate) of the playerbase that is macroing their way through Survey or picking up some extra materials for cheap during the day are *still* doing just fine.
End result: People annoyed. Problem persists.
And now,I seepeople trying to get the same kind of attention here to our music profession. I've seen it mentioned in this thread many times.
I'ved wanted to say this ever since I saw this thread the first time.
I ask you, please do not nerf the profession that I love so much. The cure will be worse than the disease.
If you feel that 'we' NEED afk entertainers on 'adventure' planets, then we must also need AFK architects, weaponsmiths, armorsmiths, slicers, chefs, etc.I mean, my god, I often have to travel to another planet to buy a new gun! And to get it sliced, it might take DAYS to find someone. There should also be AFK medics or just healing droids that will just heal our wounds for free, quickly, when we enter the med center. After all, there isn't ALWAYS a medic there.
There is no 'need' for afk entertainers.
Velvet-dancer wrote:
If you feel that 'we' NEED afk entertainers on 'adventure' planets, then we must also need AFK architects, weaponsmiths, armorsmiths, slicers, chefs, etc.I mean, my god, I often have to travel to another planet to buy a new gun! And to get it sliced, it might take DAYS to find someone. There should also be AFK medics or just healing droids that will just heal our wounds for free, quickly, when we enter the med center. After all, there isn't ALWAYS a medic there.
There is no 'need' for afk entertainers.
I agree, there is no NEED at all. Want, now that is a different story. Unfortunately, many, many, many people want them. /sigh
I don't know if this has been mentioned or not, but how about this:
Instead of decreasing XP during AFK, increase it while non-AFK. It takes forever to get some of the skills as it is. This time is not a problem to AFK'rs, but it is a deterrent to be at the keyboard
My thoughts about it:
- Gaining XP is very slow. More benefits for "being actually there" would be nice. I would not object against a small decrease in XP gain when being AFK for an extended period of time. Just think of some scouting abilities. In a good group, you can run from Hunting I to Hunting IV in about 2-3 hours of game play... Try this with Musicianship....
- Popup windows would be very bad. As someone mentioned above, being entertainer/musician turns the game into a kind of chatroom. Not being a native english speaker I´m quite busy just with reading/typing, so I use macros and I always try to find nice flourish combinations that sound better than others, but this seems to be more important with the starter songs.... Anyway: A total NO for Popups.
- AFK macroing in general: I don´t mind it. With entertaining its somewhat different to other classes. Many professions can set up a vendor to sell their stuff 24/7, some sell on the bazar. Only healing (entertainer healing and medic healing) highly depends people being there... What I don´t like is AFK macroing entertainers playing center-stage spamming the room. (Well, as an afterthought, there are other professions that need a non-AFK person around... Slicing, Image design... But honestly, I don´t need those a few times a day!)
Why can´t they [the AFK performers] just move to the side a bit, to a corner, or to some private building? When I macro AFK, I do it in some usually unmanned cantina in a corner, or in the PA hall, so I don´t annoy people, but provide a benifit to some :-) And I do this even with my main character that will be dropping all musicanstuff soon...
What should be done IMHO is, that AFK registered(!) entertainers should automatically unregister. Last week I tried to find a teacher for some entertainer skills, visited each cantina that showed up as "manned" in the planetary map, and found only AFK entertainers. I mean, not a single one was at the keyboard. And each and every of those entertainers played/performed center-stage....
So, all in all, my suggestions are: When an entertainer is AFK for an extended period of time (say, 30 minutes) then:
- Decrease the amount of XP he gets (20% less, maybe)
- Unregister him/her (when registered)
- Move him/her to a side room
To make playing at the keyboard more rewarding, I suggest
- Increase amount of XP you get while at keyboard by 5% to 20%... whatever.
- Other benefits that do NOT require to click on some stupid popup-window :-) Maybe the local NPC bar-tender SAYing something like "Hey entertainers, wanna do something special for me? Shoot me a /t" and when you react to that, you gain more XP - a special mission - a shiny new instrument after performing a while - whatever...
Cheers, Mordra(c)k
Make /addignore remove avatars.
Add a comments field to ignore list like the friends list.
Allow group leaders to position members of the band (then kick them, of course)