Musician Archive
Thread: Publish 23 on Test Center New Inspiration Buffs
pykescylla wrote:
Actually, the other buffs are NOTHING compared to that resource buff, at least for armor smithing. For us, amazing assemblies and successes have very little effect on crafting because we only have one important line of experimentation that we can easily max. Weaponsmiths and chefs with multiple lines of experimentation may want to choose differently, but ultimately it is your resources that determine the quality of your product.
Two percent may not be too bad; I don't think it is inconsequential at all when you consider it is applied to all the resources used. For armorsmiths, it might mean the difference between hitting the cap and falling just short. Still I'd prefer to do without.
I can't talk for weaponsmiths, only for chefs here.
Amazing Assemblies do absolutely nothing for chefs. Great, amazing, crappy, moderate (or what they're all called) are all the same. Resulting in exactly the same starting stats. The only thing different is obviously a Critical Failure, but think that was removed.
Then to experimenting: Yes, chefs have more lines to experiment, usually 2. Nutrition (thats the buff) and duration. Sometimes put one point into filling as well to drop it below the necessary mark (Brandy sometimes starts with 51 filling if you're using resources with a low DR)
Frankly one attempt in experimentation for chefs (who plan to do a factory run of 1000) does not cost much. 100 top-resources + 1 chef tissue + a few grind resources in subcompents perhaps.
I dropped 7 or 8 points into Nutrition usually, experimented. If it was an Amazing succes, I drank some Bespin Port and dropped the last 4 points in duration, and hopped for a second Amazing.
If not all 12 points (or 11 in case 1 had to go into filling, that one could be great, or even moderate) were Amazing successes, i scraped the schematic and tried again. On average I used up one crate of resources and could for that build 19 or 39 (depending on amounts of crated subcomponents) top-quality products.
Taking a price of 200k for the "Great Success" version and only 19 finished crates, that means I have to sell it for about 10k more than I would sell my great successes, so it was worth it. And frankly, 200k for a "great success" version is alot, and I could sell it for quite a bit more than 10k more once it was amazing
So if I could now have dropped 9 points into nutrition, because I didn't hit the cap after 8, and safed that 1 point into Filling (which the 10% increase should take care of now), with the same tactic I would build stuff that doesn't even start to compare to the old version.
So yes, I would say for Chefs too its no question what buff to choose.
For WS it might be different if they have looted components, and just "1 shot" and have to do the best of it. But even then the 10% better resources might outweight the higher chance on an amazing success, but I'm no WS so I can't really comment on this.
So my conclussion would be: Splitting the buffs into a "10% more resource quality" and a "more XP/Assembly/Experimentation" part does not help at all.
But another idea: I almost wrote up there "10% more resources"... which gave me this idea.
How about changing the buff so the schematic uses 10% less resources? If the recipe needs 100 metal than now it needs 90, etc.?
This is not really overpowering like 10% on resource stats, but with big bulk factory runs you will notice the difference. (and possibly with small ones too, if they need some looted stuff)
- make it benefit 1000 quality resources. (this is key)
- maybe only Master crafters can get the resource mod, or can get better mods, since they don't really need the exp boost and the assembly and experimentation is probably a minimum boost to them also.
I think if they somehow extend the cap beyond the 1000 mark for resources, or if like mentioned above that the 10% gets added in after all the qualities are calculated, then the mod would be more welcomed. Because then the crafters with the elite 1000 quality resources will become the crafters with the elite 1100 quality resources. This I think would involve more of a change to the game mechanics than I bet they have done to allow higher than 1000 quality, so probably not working most favorably.
I would hope they leave this part of the buff out until they work it over some.
If crafters are worried that this will become a necessity, I would argue it isn't. People still make and sell crap out there. If you want to distinguish your products then you are already gathering top recources and putting a lot of time and detail into your craft. You decide if you want that little extra boost from the buffs. If so, seek out an Entertainer. An Armorsmith would hope a customer would seek out and travel to buy his product because they deem his armor a necessity, so why not take some time to seek out a Dancer or Musician. Now...they just need a better way to find us. 
And since it can't be AFK-macroable...Man...Not even the buffbots can get us! This made my day. At least...From the patch notes. We'll have to see how it works in practice, I guess. 50 charge holo-generators will be nice, too!
Heorot wrote:
Well, as soon as Jedi figure that everyone gets the buff except for them. Expect to hear some SERIOUS /forcewhine.
I was already bracing for /forceWhine. They're going to throw a fit when they find someone gets a bonus they don't.
Shaizann wrote:
Heorot wrote:
Well, as soon as Jedi figure that everyone gets the buff except for them. Expect to hear some SERIOUS /forcewhine.
I was already bracing for /forceWhine. They're going to throw a fit when they find someone gets a bonus they don't.
Can you blame them?
They will now have to go up against BH's with perfect armor that got crafted using your buff
They will now have to go up against BH's with perfect weapons that got crafted using your buff
add in slices and pups and a perfect templated BH
you are dealing with a lean mean killing machine.
Premium and flawless pearls not dropping means the lightsaber is already lower in damage output.
No ryme or reason to exclude lightsaber crafting from these buffs of yours.
Lorelai_Seabreeze wrote:
Shaizann wrote:
Heorot wrote:
Well, as soon as Jedi figure that everyone gets the buff except for them. Expect to hear some SERIOUS /forcewhine.
I was already bracing for /forceWhine. They're going to throw a fit when they find someone gets a bonus they don't.
Can you blame them?
They will now have to go up against BH's with perfect armor that got crafted using your buff
They will now have to go up against BH's with perfect weapons that got crafted using your buff
add in slices and pups and a perfect templated BH
you are dealing with a lean mean killing machine.
Premium and flawless pearls not dropping means the lightsaber is already lower in damage output.
No ryme or reason to exclude lightsaber crafting from these buffs of yours.
There is a reason to leaving lightsabre crafting out of it. The Jedi are a combat profession, and these are non-combat buffs. Yes, I know Weaponsmith/Amorsmith folks build things that go into combat. However, the difference is, the Weaponsmith/Armorsmith is going to benefit from the sale of his goods into the economy. Therefore the sale of thebuff-enhanced good helps the economy and stimulates the world simulation we have running aorund here. The Jedi is simply going to take and not give back. They benefit nobody but themselves.
You are splitting hairs, well heres a hair to split
Jedi do missions for credits, credits that pay for food/spice and alot of other crafted items
The class is not a self sufficiant one, you do rely on other players in the game.
Take and not give back? what are they taking?They will have to pay for the buff.
What do they give back? A stimulated economy by buying other crafted items.
Clothing food/spice starships vehicles repair kits
You said it yourself those armor and weapons will be used in combat
SO technicaly they are not entirely non-combat buffs
And you ignored my previous posts point
Lack of pearl drops combined with a lack of high quality sabers doesnt stack to well against a BH's armor and weapon that will now be server best.
Message Edited by Lorelai_Seabreeze on 08-24-2005 04:21 AM
Lorelai_Seabreeze wrote:
There is a reason to leaving lightsabre crafting out of it. The Jedi are a combat profession, and these are non-combat buffs. Yes, I know Weaponsmith/Amorsmith folks build things that go into combat. However, the difference is, the Weaponsmith/Armorsmith is going to benefit from the sale of his goods into the economy. Therefore the sale of the buff-enhanced good helps the economy and stimulates the world simulation we have running aorund here. The Jedi is simply going to take and not give back. They benefit nobody but themselves.
You are splitting hairs, well heres a hair to split
Jedi do missions for credits, credits that pay for food/spice and alot of other crafted items
The class is not a self sufficiant one, you do rely on other players in the game.
Take and not give back? what are they taking?They will have to pay for the buff.
What do they give back? A stimulated economy by buying other crafted items.
Clothing food/spice starships vehicles repair kits
You said it yourself those armor and weapons will be used in combat
SO technicaly they are not entirely non-combat buffs
And you ignored my previous posts point
Lack of pearl drops combined with a lack of high quality sabers doesnt stack to well against a BH's armor and weapon that will now be server best.
Message Edited by Lorelai_Seabreeze on 08-24-2005 04:21 AM
I'm not trying to offer a solution to Jedi's ills with regard to their dealing with Bounty Hunters. They pay the price of being a Jedi by being hunted. I've never quite understood why it's not a higher price due to them still being so numerous on so many servers. They have plenty of numbers to deal with the Bounty Hunters now, so I'm not sure why they would just not band together to aovid any issues they might have.
Also, what crafted items would a Jedi buy...they make their own sabres after all. They don't have need of anything else, and as I understand it, the robes are a fairly independent affair as well. Perhaps I am splitting hairs, but it's the hair line of sabre craftingthat means quite a lot to me as a full time entertainer.
They have plenty of numbers to deal with the Bounty Hunters now, so I'm not sure why they would just not band together to aovid any issues they might have.
Jedi cannot help each other in this regard.
You can have as many as 5 bounty hunters which is supposedly not working right take a mission on a Jedi
The jedi will have to deal with them all alone. No outside help is allowed. no healing and no fighting.
so it can be 5 on 1
Jedi are supposedly 1.5 times more powerful than any lvl 80 combat class not 5 times or even 2
They don't have need of anything else, and as I understand it, the robes are a fairly independent affair as well
Robes do not have slots for clothing attachments and may or may not give a jedi visabilty which leads you back to your first line Jedi vs BH
rifle vs saber
you cannot buff one without buffing the other otherwise you create an imbalance which was the whole point of the Combat Upgrade.
Sabers rely more on crystals and pearls for their stats than on crafting/resources but better resources and crafting help fine tune it.
Lorelai_Seabreeze wrote:
Your reply shows you know nothing about Jedi and their concerns.Ill do it point by point.
They have plenty of numbers to deal with the Bounty Hunters now, so I'm not sure why they would just not band together to aovid any issues they might have.
Jedi cannot help each other in this regard.
You can have as many as 5 bounty hunters which is supposedly not working right take a mission on a Jedi
The jedi will have to deal with them all alone. No outside help is allowed. no healing and no fighting.
so it can be 5 on 1
Jedi are supposedly 1.5 times more powerful than any lvl 80 combat class not 5 times or even 2
They don't have need of anything else, and as I understand it, the robes are a fairly independent affair as well
Robes do not have slots for clothing attachments and may or may not give a jedi visabilty which leads you back to your first line Jedi vs BH
rifle vs saber
you cannot buff one without buffing the other otherwise you create an imbalance which was the whole point of the Combat Upgrade.
Sabers rely more on crystals and pearls for their stats than on crafting/resources but better resources and crafting help fine tune it.
I beg your pardon, but I never said I was an expert on Jedi, or their needs. I'm trying to keep this a civil conversation and I request you do the same. My main point, andI see nowthatI was not clear, is that I don't want to be involved in Jedi dealings of any type.
My explanation as to why they would not need our buffs is based mostly on what we (as entertainer folk) were told the buffs were going to be. Meaning, non-combat in nature...I was a bit surprised to see the Weaponsmithing/Armorsmihting in there, but I still believe Jedi should be right out of the design. The other portion of my explanation is based on my own personal experince with Jedi, and sadly those experinces have been negative most of the time. These days I avoid them when I can.
Finally, I still don't see whya Jediwould take issue about the potential for multiple bounties being placed on your head as a single Jedi. That is the price of admission for beinga Jedi, and that price is well known.
Your ignoring the facts I point out.
You cannot buff one side and not the other just because you hate the class.
Check my sig I am an entertainer/dancer/musician, My Jedi used to be a Master Dancer also.
I am well aware of all the issues with entertainer classes.
These buffs have far ranging implications that cannot be ignored.
Not just combat implications but ones involving the crafters themselves.
Resource quality and how many points the crafter has to spend.
why be a 12 point crafter when the 10 point crafter can now compete
why pay for high quality resources when you can get near beer.
Shaizann wrote:
Also, what crafted items would a Jedi buy...they make their own sabres after all. They don't have need of anything else, and as I understand it, the robes are a fairly independent affair as well. Perhaps I am splitting hairs, but it's the hair line of sabre craftingthat means quite a lot to me as a full time entertainer.
Loki_Ashaman wrote:
Red-Dwarf or one of the other TCers, think you can provide a littleinfo towards this question? (Posted in SW forum, same question as above)
Good news...
Following is test results (feel free to cross post these to other forums you visit, I will be posting this in Dancer and Musician threads):
Crafted an Armour Reinforcement Panel mark 1 using some sweet Duralloy I have for special occasions and a fairly nice bicorb steel currently in spawn on TC. Relevant stats are the duralloy OQ 921 and UT 998 and the bicorb OQ 923 UT 456. The crafting formula for unbuffed experimenting on mass gives:
(921*.75+923*.25)*.25+(998*.75+456*.25)*.75=877
This tallies with me experimenting and reaching 87%
Now the two theories are whether the stat caps are set at 1000 or whether the experimentation caps at 100%.
under the first theory the formula would be:
(1000*.75+1000*.25)*.25+(1000*.75+501*.25)*.75=906
Under the second theory the formula would be:
(1013*.75+1015*.25)*.25+(1097*.75+501*.25)*.75=964
Now, I experimented - and the cap was
...pause for drum roll.....
96%!!!!
The resources are NOT stat capped at 1000, the cap comes in if you hit 100% experiment, so the only resources that are affected are those where all relevant stats are over 910, in those cases they will hit 100%, but all other resources will be getting a benefit.