Musician Archive

Thread: Dark times and A New Hope (The Jukebox)

MusicalDina
Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:09 pm
#53






LyteFoot wrote:






Bronski113 wrote:
I wasn't saying the songs are perfect and don't need work, they do. However, if you just look at our role in the overall game we fulfill our role. We heal and buff. Both work. When it is all said and done our skills work.

What we want is content. New content and improvements on current content.








That is the root of the problem IMO. This is seen as our "function" by far too many. Our function is to not only offer those services but to entertain. I didn't become a musician just to buff. I enjoy the buffing role but honestly they could hand that to a blue frog and I would be fine because I enjoy the entertaining in and of itself. As long as the devs and the players see our role solely as that of a healing and buffing machine then we won't get any new content because, you are right, we work.




Well i disagree with you Bronski, they dont work fine. How many times are you unsure if you buffed your buffee? how do you know?


I agree with Lytefoot on her point as well. Though we may be seen as those two roles are all we do, it isnt. And really i think thats where the disagreement lies between you and i. I see entertainer as just that an entertainer that has buffing and healing services. If i get what you are saying correct, entertainers are buffers and healers foremost.



When i became an entertainer there was no such thing as a mind buff. I didnt know what healing xp was for, i just knew when people listened to me i got musician xp and healing xp. was only later i found out why. I am an entertainer to entertain - anything else is fluff.





DinaJa Erso
Master Doctor
Master Musician
SinnAsyr
Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:46 pm
#54

So I go for two months and we have some kind of machine trying to take our supposed spot?


Well if you have been a musician you have had to DEAL with machines : buffbots


So dont worry about this so much. Just some kind of new "thing" the devs want to try.


And maybe the little promised thing will be a useful thing (a magicalupdate that we dont have to do crap for to get?)



-Rynn Lightcloud-

Smuggler

-Accain-

Entertainer-Ahazi
DarkY0da
Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:48 pm
#55

I picked it up as I tend to play support characters. I like playing support roles. Musician and Dancer when I started were both support professions. Our game mechanics/tie in/interdependant/what ever IS healing/buffing(as for it not being new uhh it's been in so long now that I don't think we really can call it "new").

But the beauty of it was that we could have this support role by also having our performance role. If our support role went. Our tie in with the game world at large. If it was gone... then I really can't see why I would play it any more. The performance aspect just isn't enough. And certainly not in it's current form as it is very limited in really how much of a performance you can do.

So we have the jukebox which does play better music for the most part. It has a much much large selection of music. And it's music IS STAR WARS. Not the half baked semi-maybe not really star wars stuff we have. Yes it can't do effects. Just buy a droid with effects and park it next to it. Yes it can't heal or do our support role. Just move the buffbot on next to the droid.



Oh-Orb Rizo Twi'lek
Just hanging out... watching with interest what changes do or don't happen.

I support the NDE. (New Drygo Experience)
Server Pop Snap-Shot Feb. 06 link















DureenaBadKarma
Mon Feb 28, 2005 6:39 pm
#56

Hi all, just visiting from the bark-eating ranger forums!

I got myself one of these here jukeboxes and stuck it in my house tonight. Its rather cool, having some fancy music while I decorate rather than the whir of passing speeders and the crackling sound of burning torches that make up my cooker. But I'd have to say, if someone put on an event and stuck one of those on the stage instead of a full dance/music group doing their routines I'd be rather unimpressed to say the least.

It's a neat little toy, its something fun for the home (lets be honest, I was never gonna hire you and your kloo horn to come play while I moved my furniture around!) but to replace an ent group at a huge player event, not a chance. You guys are normally the highlight of the event everytime, and now we have all these extra event toys (races, treasure hunts etc) hopefully you will get more work, not less.

Anyone who slaps a jukebox down instead of bringing a well practiced group on stage to show off their skills was never going to make the effort to find you and hire you anyway.. and it's their loss to their crappy event.


Keep the faith my friends, even us rangers come out of the woods to listen to your tunes occasionally, and I hope you get lots of love in the next publish.


Oki, that's all from me, I'm back off to the undergrowth....



Dureena - I lived in a special place for a while. It was made special by those I knew,butclosest to my heart wereEmekaf and Viridian, I will never forget you both /blowkiss
Anmoch
Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:35 pm
#57

Good points, and as a player who is developing a musican solely for the purposes of joining a band, I can agree. I didn't meant to ask the question as some sort of flame against musician concerns, but merely as one ignorant of the entire scope of the topic. I now find myself all the wiser.



~Anmoch - Kettemoor - Master Rifleman~
~Fesick - Intrepid - Master Doc - Proprieter of Okboddle Pyrotechnics~
Saeelwenea
Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:00 am
#58






Esharra wrote:





Saeelwenea wrote:


Quoting myself from other threads

As to the mention earlier of a singer/songwriter profession wth do you need SOE to set of a profession for it we have the /sing emote that lets an entertainer sing to her audience. I, myself, for a Chirstmas party that Solar Flair performed at macroed a number of Christmas songs to be sung while we played for everyone. Now I'm not much of a song writer but I can't see a reason in the world why someone who wishes to be a songwriter cannot do so right now.




There's a huge difference between songwriter and lyricist. The /sing chat function gives us the ability to recite words that show up in a pretty box. Unfortunately, too many people in this worldseem tothink that the only purposefor music is to serve as thevehicle for meaningful words. Yet, most music has no lyrics at all.



Aye there is a difference and your right some of the best music out there doesn't have a singleword sung or spoken. But if I remember correctly from early in the game the Developershave already said they will not allow us to make our own musicdue to possible copyright infringment. Now I have not been keeping up with the profession boards a great deal lately but unless that has changed I don't see it happening. Though it is possible if one has the time, patience and the ear to take the songs we have now with the instruments we have and make something interestingoutof the flourishes we have.I know withthe right instruments Starwars 1 has a wonderfull sound to it though in my opinion it is one of the worst songs I have ever had the misfortune to hear or playon the slitherhorn. I would love to have more music to play, it would be great to have some positive changes to entertainer.

Message Edited by Saeelwenea on 02-28-2005 02:01 PM



Tarquinas:Starfall ME/M/T, Slipstream MR/C; Solairus MA/A/P/M
Radiant:Tai'li MCH; Tai'le MA, Lethal TKA
Sunrunner: Kass, MD, ID; Kassiad Medic, Doctor; Kal're Brawler He uses Poser 5 for his stuff
my renderosity gallery I use DAZ|Studio
Photobucket pictures Deviantart
Bronski113
Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:09 am
#59

I wasn't saying the songs are perfect and don't need work, they do. However, if you just look at our role in the overall game we fulfill our role. We heal and buff. Both work. When it is all said and done our skills work.

What we want is content. New content and improvements on current content.



Lodo Ektatu - Bloodfin
Co-Leader of the Entertainers (ENTS)
Proprietor of the Drunken Jawa in Gardens of Heaven, Lok
Master Musician, Dancer, Image Designer, and Entertainer

Jherek (Imperial) - Bloodfin
Captain of the Gardens of Heaven Militia
Master Carbineer and Smuggler
LyteFoot
Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:22 am
#60




Bronski113 wrote:
I wasn't saying the songs are perfect and don't need work, they do. However, if you just look at our role in the overall game we fulfill our role. We heal and buff. Both work. When it is all said and done our skills work.

What we want is content. New content and improvements on current content.






That is the root of the problem IMO. This is seen as our "function" by far too many. Our function is to not only offer those services but to entertain. I didn't become a musician just to buff. I enjoy the buffing role but honestly they could hand that to a blue frog and I would be fine because I enjoy the entertaining in and of itself. As long as the devs and the players see our role solely as that of a healing and buffing machine then we won't get any new content because, you are right, we work.



Elwyn LyteFoot - Corbantis server
Saeelwenea
Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:42 am
#61






LyteFoot wrote:






Bronski113 wrote:
I wasn't saying the songs are perfect and don't need work, they do. However, if you just look at our role in the overall game we fulfill our role. We heal and buff. Both work. When it is all said and done our skills work.

What we want is content. New content and improvements on current content.








That is the root of the problem IMO. This is seen as our "function" by far too many. Our function is to not only offer those services but to entertain. I didn't become a musician just to buff. I enjoy the buffing role but honestly they could hand that to a blue frog and I would be fine because I enjoy the entertaining in and of itself. As long as the devs and the players see our role solely as that of a healing and buffing machine then we won't get any new content because, you are right, we work.



musician/dancer buffing is a fairly new thing for musicians and dancers I would be just as happy if they had never given us those abilities. Personally the thing I would love to have happen more then anything else is if something like the what they did to end afk surveying was done to end afk. I don't want the marcos to go away I find them to useful for all sorts of things from marcoing a song to marcoing the changing of clothing during a performance. One of the greatest I've seen was a dancer having her leotard(sp) on macro so that her leotard was ever chagning colors.




Tarquinas:Starfall ME/M/T, Slipstream MR/C; Solairus MA/A/P/M
Radiant:Tai'li MCH; Tai'le MA, Lethal TKA
Sunrunner: Kass, MD, ID; Kassiad Medic, Doctor; Kal're Brawler He uses Poser 5 for his stuff
my renderosity gallery I use DAZ|Studio
Photobucket pictures Deviantart
Ororo
Tue Mar 01, 2005 7:24 am
#62

Well, I want to add more than just my 0.02, but let's face it most of the concerns are out there already.


The rationales between entertainers and the combat/artisan professions is obviously further apart now than they have been in my time actively playing this game. Actual entertainers see their role as trying to perform and entertain; everyone else sees to just see us as a reason to turn off the volume and get a quick fix. Development has pushed a seedy form of entertainment for years now by allowing characters in flesh colored clothes to sit afk for hours looking and acting like prostitutes by getting their 15k for the quick 15 minute buff...


It could be infuriating, but it's just depressing. I'm relatively new to the entertaining gig right now...I've only been at it since January. Even so, I'm already exhausted with the disregard our concerns are given. A grand majority of us are outraged regarding the fact that they've put out a box with everything we've the professions have been needing for months. It is really more than a bit infuriating that the biggest issue the development seems to see with the jukebox is that the non entertainers want more and more of the great music and ambience and for less money. Speaking as a musician who still averages about 10k a week in the profession it makes me see red to hear everyone complaining about paying 25k for many hours!


I try to optimistic. I was optimistic before JTL came out that there might finally be new venues, new content, new something for the ground classes. Didn't happen. I was optimistic when I returned to the game after the notice they hired a staff just to develop content. I want to wait for more to come, I really do. I know things take time. But when the response to a massive outcry is "we know it hurts you, but we'll let you help make it so you can hurt yourself!" it really feels like someone isn't paying attention.


Want to make entertainers happy? Fine.


Remove the cantina/hotel/theater conscription. You let doctors practice medicine outside of hospitals, let us entertain anywhere and heal.

OR

Set up a stable camping setup that doesn't involve having the scout/ranger have to stay in in non combat mode to stay up. Give us a way to viably participate in battle.


Allow us to charge a fee before BF/Buffs can occur, much like image designers.


Remove the afkbots or at least remove their ability to heal/buff.


I know everyone can't be made happy. I know planning fora game like this is all about making sure everything stays as fairly equal as possible. It's listening to complaints and making a balanced decision about what actually needs changed. It seems like the development here ignores this concept though, in order to make one sweeping change at a time. I'm tired of being in non combat professions and being entirely ignored in this game myself...I have about a week left on my current pay period and may well just leave again if the entirety of the big news is the "guess what, you're irrelevant" post I'm fearing.


This is a game, I know. I play because I have fun. If it's not fun any longer, I can stop just as quickly.


Flicker Skylighter

Ranger/Creature Handler


Estemus Ithorius

Musician/Entertainer/Image Designer



Flicker Skylighter
Fatal Exceptions
Master Ranger

Estemus Ithorius
Fatal Exceptions
Master Entertainer, Musician
Bronski113
Tue Mar 01, 2005 7:40 am
#63

I think the people who would buy the jukebox instead of hiring a band for an event are the ones who don't hire us to play in the first place.

A very small amount of events I have played at were not hosted by friends. Even those were hosted by people who have interacted with my guild. They knew us and our reputation.



Lodo Ektatu - Bloodfin
Co-Leader of the Entertainers (ENTS)
Proprietor of the Drunken Jawa in Gardens of Heaven, Lok
Master Musician, Dancer, Image Designer, and Entertainer

Jherek (Imperial) - Bloodfin
Captain of the Gardens of Heaven Militia
Master Carbineer and Smuggler
Aiobi
Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:26 am
#64


As I posted in another forum:


--------------------------------------------------------



Alright..I've done some deeper investigating, and I've come up with a solution that would benefit both parties. In all the galaxies, there are many bands, which slowly over time, are beginning to fade. One way to fix this, is to make the Jukebox, where it would record player Bands. When a song is played, the place where it is played, It would show the name of the song, and the band performing. Each band is unique, as the flourish combinations are different.


If bands played for the Jukeboxes, and no individual songs were put on there, such as the themes as previously said, it would increase the Musician Profession's worth, and give us a deeper opportunity, since it's obvious we cant get rid of the Jukebox. And if someone likes a specific band, they can enlist them for custom music, or to play at an event. As a Master Musician, I think this would give us a boost, and increase our worth in the game. Just like in the real world, make and sell 'CDs', with a bands music on it, for player use in homes. This would definataly bring more to the Musician Profession, boosting us from where we are now.


This is the best solution I can think of, and it both helps us Musicians, and the other players who want music in their homes. I want to try and help resolve this, with as little conflict as possible...



Kweh ~ Chilastra
Master Musician | Master Architect | 4040 Artisan | Novice Rifleman
Former Master Entertainer | Former Master Image Designer | Former Master Medic
Cendatinea
Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:45 pm
#65


I posted this in the Dancer forums' Jukebox related thread, but wanted it in this forum too.


Y’know what’s really bad? When you promise yourself you won’t post on a topic because you just know you’re gonna shove your foot down your throat…and then you go and do it anyway. So before I begin…


/slap self


Ok. That out of the way, I shall now proceed to shove my foot in my face, possibly make people I like become angry with me, and put my 2 credits into the discussion.







Oh ye, tormenting and tacky wannabe replacement
for a good thing, thy name is "Jukebox."


While I was on my non-entertainer alt, a friend and I went and she purchased a Jukebox. She placed it in my house, switched it on, and we went through all the songs. I liked it, it was neat, it had that “bright and shiny” that most new things have that attract you and make you want to try them.


Two days later, after I had time to think about this new thing in my world, I went, on the same character, and bought one myself. I placed it in my house and set it to “Chamber Music” which is one of my favorites. Many, many times I have sat behind the counter where the merchant trainer is in the artisan guild hall in Keren to grind while listening to this tune. It was nice to have it in my house while muddling about with emails and such.


It did grow a bit old, so I switched it to “Naboo soothing” which I have decided I would like a recording of for my bedtime since listening to it did indeed sooth me and make me a bit sleepy. Ah…running water and ambient music…I was quite happy to sit and listen to it.


That’s just it though. Ambiance. This is what the jukebox provides and it was absolutely wonderful to have on as background noise while RPing with friends in my house. I later went to a friend’s cantina to hang out, wanting very much to hear what other deem as “noise,” that of the sound of live entertainment played by live musicians in a cantina.


She had a jukebox...


I was not happy...


It is her cantina though, so I listened and told myself, “that’s ok…it’s our cantina night tomorrow…ah house band…ah live entertainment…ah no ambiance trying to pretend it is the real thing.” And then I got asked this, this afternoon:


“What do you think of using a jukebox tonight?”


NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! WITH EVERY FIBER OF MY BEING, NO!


At least…that’s what I wanted to scream. I realized that the person asking me probably hadn’t used a jukebox, so I tried to be more genteel in my response and explanation. It was after that, that I realized my response to that question was EXACTLY what I wanted to post here…so I am.


They're great for ambient music in a house, but in a place like the Green Room...that'd be like Louis Armstrong saying "hey, instead of me play, lets listen to the radio." There's just something bout a live band you can't replace. Maybe it’s just me, I think it’s pretty tacky to use a jukebox in the cantina instead of a live musician, ESPECIALLY if you have a live musician available.


The concern on the part of the asker was that the usual house band may not all make it and/or would possibly be late. I tried to explain that there are many people out there that actually don't like the jukeboxes, a big reason why I am reluctant to use one. I had one in Deri's house, it does add a VERY nice ambiance, but that's all it is, ambiance, background noise.


It is not and should in no way be a substitute for a band. I'd sooner see one person with an instrument and a playback droid on stage. I don't hate them, I just believe that there is a time and a place for them, and a cantina social event is most definitely not it.


At a wedding? Ok, sure, but use a live band for the reception cause otherwise, that’s just tacky. As ambiance for a private party at your house? You betcha. In a cantina? NO WAY, JOSE.







*tosses 2 credits into the thread and steps off her soapbox*


Thank you.




Lady Derianadai Hirunmil
"If you're happy and you know it, clap your hands."
Passing out tackle hugs to the whole galaxy!


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