Musician Archive
Thread: A Cvil request as to exactly how buffbots hut *you* as a player?
Fragpuppie wrote:
Baciacca wrote:
No, my theories are sound. You are just unwillingly to listen to them. I probably play my "bot" more than others. In real life, I am a musically oriented person. I have played the piano and the guitar, and I was a lead tenor in my HS choir 5 years ago (still have good voice, but I just don't have money for lessons to keep it in good shape). I actually enjoy the entertainer professions. Maybe not as much as I enjoy the combat profs, but I have to admit that for the short time I was master entertainer and could play the guitar like instrument, I really enjoyed jamming to the beat.
Do you have any counter-arguments to my arguments? No, you don't. I played my entertainer before I turned it into a bot. I still play it on occaision. I'll never have the advantage a female (or someone who can fake being a female) will have, but I know that money can be made as an entertainer providing buffs. However, you have to go out and work for it. It won't just come to you.
The facts are that you have not utilized the business stragies that I have presented. You have only sat in the cantinas and expected the business and credits to come to you. You didn't want to take the effort to advertise or to orient yourselves with the market. That is why you want to call my principles unsound right now. Because you never have and never will put true effort into your profession. Now that you have let it go to waste, it will be harder than ever to gain market share back from the bots. Instead of working for it, you want the devs to just give it away to you. However, no matter what you think, there is nothing the devs can do to give you this market share back. Even if they take away recursive macros, nobody will want to associate with the players who have given them grief over the issue. Your attitude towards the situation is what currently and will always cause your profits to be low. If you do not realize the business situation you are in, you will never be successful in your endeavors.
I give up on you. You have no concept of the realities...you also did not answer my questions as to how involved you are in this profession, thus showing that you do NOT havethe experience in trying to make a living as a live player. You don't even know that the "guitar like instrument" is called a Mandoviol.
I did to answer your questions. Look at all the posts I have on this thread, I've answered given about as much analysis as I can being one person answering to many others. Just becuase I didn't remember the name of the instrument as the Mandoviol at the time does not mean anything. I am not a master entertainer and have not been for a very long time. I don't own a mandoviol so I don't think about what it is on a regular basis. I'm not as involved in the profession as some of you may be, but I know a good amount about the profession, its place in the economy, and its game mechanics.
I don't care to argue with you any longer as you have clearly shown that you are not listening to anything I have said.
Yet you still made this post. If you didn't want to argue then why did you respond? This is a common contradiction with some of you in this forum.
You have not seen that I have tried to work at the profession, and that I have tried many of the things you have suggested. Though I admit that I could automate the various suggestions you made and leave them running 23/7 and gain back a degree of market share, I WILL NOT become a bot. You think that I have not put in "true effort". I have tried, but I cannot put in the same effort ATK as the bot can do 23/7. WHEN WILL YOU REALIZE THAT YOU CANNOT COMPETE EQUALLY. Given that, I have nowchosen to only compete when I A) Have time and B) Enjoy the challenge. I shall wait for the AFK fix. Its true, the devs will not "give" us this market back, however they will remove AFKing professions and thus remove competition that we have had. Yes we will need to "win" back the people who used buffbots, but most of the "winning" will be playing our entertainers and being available. If you choose not to come to us then great, you will lose in the game of balance as to who has buffs. Our attitude is that we want to "play" this game, at the keyboard, on an equal footing with other players. Yes, we are equal in that we CAN currently play a bot if we so choose, however the devs have stated MANY times that that mode of play is not what was intended and that it WILL go away. When that happens we will all be ATK and on a completely equal basis.
You can compete equally, and stop getting so angry here, we're having a good discussion. Your statement that you only buff when you "have time" is exactly why you are losing more and more customers everyday. You don't care about the customers needs, only your own. People won't choose to come to you. They'll choose to buy another account. Even if the ability to run it AFK is taken away (although I'm still doubtful of this occurence) they will still have guild entertainers that provide buffs conveniently and on demand.
At this point, you shouldn't bother responding. I responded in detail to your first 5 posts, then read all your counter responses. These showed that you hadn't read my posts. I chose to try to summarise rather than point by point refute, and now you claim that because I CHOOSE not to continue talking when noone is listening, thatI have no knowledge. When challenged, you did not answer my questions regarding your qualifications as toif your theories would work. In your lack of response, I take it that you do NOT have the experience that is necessary to understand the problems of an ATK musician. Try it sometime and if you come up with a method that works,then you can tell us about it. From here out, I shall read your posts in this thread with the same amout of attention you have read mine....ie NONE.
Do you keep saying that I shouldn't respond because you don't want to have to respond? Or I thought you already didn't want to respond anymore, I'm getting confused. You keep posting as if you're just trying to get in the last word and then force the end of the discussion. I did answer your questions. I have counter-point argued almost every post that has been written in response to mine. Trying to claim that I haven't done a good job of addressing everything brought up is ludicrous. I admit that I have not really tried to employ these methods myself in great detail, but I have seen other people use them. My logic make sense and economic examples I have provided are very similar to the situation here. I very well might roll a female toon on one of the more populated servers sometime soon to prove what I have said. I just have finite amounts of time to play this game and I already have lots of other stuff on my own server to spend game-time on. Why don't you trymy methods? You are obviously committed to this profession and spend a large amount of your game-time playing them.
Saying that I have not paid any attention to your posts is laughable. Why would I provide such detailed counter-arguments if I hadn't even read what you posted to begin with. I think that your anger on the matter is clouding your vision when you read what I am typing. Maybe you were already paying no attention to what I was typing and that is why you believe that I wasn't paying attention to you. You weren't paying attention to me, paying attention to you, I think there's a song or with lines like that. It might use the word noticing instead, I'm not sure and now I'm off-topic. I think I've addressed everything well enough.
Fragpuppie Uber
Master Entertainer, Master Musician
Guild Leader - Performer United Professional Society (PUPS)
Founding Member - Frag's Puppies
Contact S'ita for bookings
President and CEO - Fragpuppie Enterprises and Uber Instruments
Coronet, Corellia, Chilastra
Baciacca wrote:
Yes, there is a market for socialization. If you are a female player (or can roleplay one well) you've got a competitive advantage in this area above the majority of other players. You're going to tell me that the majority of male players, many of which are younger teenagers or single adults don't want interaction with a female? Give me a break. If you aren't able to use seductive abilities to gain a competitive advantage then you have only yourself to blame and your lack of social skills. Snip
I'm sorry but I take offense to you implying that we should all be lap dancers to make money, and that if we chose not to do that well then we don't deserve to make money. I won't say that I don't flirt with Freya because I do, but she is a married woman and therefore the flirting is kept to innocent winks and batting lashes. I don't lick or snog and for the most part I usually dance in slacks and a top. That statement was sexist and ignorant and really devalued anything else you may ever say in the favor of buff bots.
I'm sorry but I take offense to you implying that we should all be lap dancers to make money, and that if we chose not to do that well then we don't deserve to make money. I won't say that I don't flirt with Freya because I do, but she is a married woman and therefore the flirting is kept to innocent winks and batting lashes. I don't lick or snog and for the most part I usually dance in slacks and a top. That statement was sexist and ignorant and really devalued anything else you may ever say in the favor of buff bots.
Ihave a friend that works at a strip club, and is married and has 2 children. She happens to make alot of money, and is quite proud of how she looks.
If you want something, and you "got it", "use it". If you wish to play the part of a dancer in game, and you are doing /startdance exotic3 with your "rack" busting out andwearing hawt pants ... try giving your customers what they pay for.
... Yes its work
I took offense to him basically saying that if we're not willing to sit around half naked simply being eye candy to teenagers and lonely men then we don't deserve to make money. If someone chooses to RP their character that way that's great (I used to do that kinda, then I got married IG and now my character has settled down to an extent), but just because people might decide to have a different playstyle that doesn't make them less deserving of being part of the profession.
Message Edited by Etdentarie on 11-06-2004 11:40 PM
Bilke wrote:
Baciacca, unless you realize most entertainers do not see the objective of the game as hoarding money, killing players or running a successful business venture I don't think you will understand whyAFK entertainer bots is an issue at all. ATK entertainers (the ones I've met at least) are socializers, not powergrinders or achievers, its the interaction that interests them not the money or the bragging rights.
So you're complaining that your business is being stolen, but you don't care about money?
So essentially what you want is to socialise with people who couldn't care less what you do because in the end you are nothing but a mind buff on legs. I don't care about entertainers. I don't want to socialise with you, andI just want some damned buffs. So, according to your logic, why is it a bad thing that I'm using a buffbot?
I wouldn't trade 1 Jrock for a thousand ATK entertainers. He's fast, efficient, gives good buffs and you always know where he is. Plus he makes a mean set of armour.
I realise the entertainers all have tunnel vision concerning buffbots, but you guys will never, ever get any sympathy until you realise that your attitude towards buffbots has made you look like whiney babies. All sympathy that ever existed towards you is long gone. That's OK though, you guys can sit here in the musician and dancer forums, 5 starring all your buddies while trying to convince yourselves that everyone is out to get you because they just don't "get it".
Mystic_Squirrel wrote:
So you're complaining that your business is being stolen, but you don't care about money?
The business is not my issue, 24/7 spambots in public cantinas ruining the atmosphere of the game is. If buffbots were confined to player city cantinas or private houses, you wouldn't have heard from me at all.
So essentially what you want is to socialise with people who couldn't care less what you do because in the end you are nothing but a mind buff on legs. I don't care about entertainers. I don't want to socialise with you, andI just want some damned buffs. So, according to your logic, why is it a bad thing that I'm using a buffbot?
If you cared enough to read the rest of my post, you will see that I suggested making mind buffs available offline so players who don't want the interaction can get what they want, and the players that do like the interaction can get that without being harassed by spambots.
I wouldn't trade 1 Jrock for a thousand ATK entertainers. He's fast, efficient, gives good buffs and you always know where he is. Plus he makes a mean set of armour.
See above.
I realise the entertainers all have tunnel vision concerning buffbots, but you guys will never, ever get any sympathy until you realise that your attitude towards buffbots has made you look like whiney babies. All sympathy that ever existed towards you is long gone. That's OK though, you guys can sit here in the musician and dancer forums, 5 starring all your buddies while trying to convince yourselves that everyone is out to get you because they just don't "get it".
Come up with some constructive suggestion that could make both sides happy, nothing could be better. I realize you just want fast, efficient mind buffs that are readily available. I want a game where unattended gameplay does not exist. These are not mutually exclusive.
Bilke wrote:
Come up with some constructive suggestion that could make both sides happy, nothing could be better. I realize you just want fast, efficient mind buffs that are readily available. I want a game where unattended gameplay does not exist. These are not mutually exclusive.
Indeed, nothing could be better, but I seriously don't believe you or anyone else is capable of working a constructive answer out of this guy. MS just admitted a hatred for Entertainers as well as dehumanizing us. This is not the basis for rational or constructive conversation, especially when it's apparent that MS isn't even reading posts thoroughly before going off on a tangent.
Obviously, to MS, Entertainers are nothing but mindless, brainless, heartless drones in cantinas for no other reason than to buff. If this was all that was intended, I'm certain the Devs would have made mind buff packs that someone could just run into the cantina and buy. It would have been faster, easier, and more efficient than creating an entirely new playstyle for that single task. /shrug but what do I know? Supposedly neitherInor my opinion (should I even be able tohave one in MS's view?)is important.
PoetDancer wrote:
Why does it really bother you that we complain? Its not like you are suffering any. Buffbots are more common and more accepted than ever. What does it matter to you all that we are complaining? Its not like its hurting you any. Buffbots are going to be around today when you log on, and nothing we can say will make your buffbots go away today. So why do you take such great pains to come here and try and convince us we shouldn't be upset? We are, but what does it matter to you all?
Because I enjoy the discussion and honestly, I hope that I may be able to help some people enjoy their profession more than they do right now. I ATKed Jrock before I made him a bot. It was fun for awhile, but I just don't have time to play him when I've got my main and my jedi that I enjoy playing more. There are however, still nights where I need to study and I just play Jrock in my buff house as it takes less work on my part.I enjoy just talking with the hundreds of people that come through to get buffs. I flirt with some of the female friends that come through and I talk PvP with the combat players. If I really wanted to do somethign online to just socialize, I'd rather play Jrock than use any other messenger service or chat room.
Lol, that will never work, especially the cancelling their account part. You are very delusional in your ideas of how this game actually operates.
Beery wrote:
"On the other hand, a straight removal of recursive macros would probably remove the vast majority of the most annoying buffbots - those who continously spam in the major cantinas. It might be a good first step. Account sharing and third party macros are violations of the EULA after all."
Unattended gameplay while using macros is a violation of the TOS. Why can't we justinsist thatthe CSRs to do their job? Buffbots are already illegal - let's just get Sony to arrest them. This is how to do it:
1. Mr. Buffbot comes into your cantina and starts his unattended gameplay shenanigans.
2. You make sure Mr. Buffbot is playing the game unattended.
3. You contact a CSR.
4. You explain to the CSR that you've noticed a playerin contravention of rule 7 of the TOS. You ask him/her to boot said player.
5. CSR says 'oh dear' then frantically looks up rule 7 of the TOS.
6. CSR (who can't make heads nor tails ofTOS rule 7)asks you what the problem is.
7. You say: "in contravention of rule 7 of the TOS (lines 9 & 10) this player is using a macro which allows unattended game play.
7. CSR does his job andboots said player, gives him a warning, or cancels his account.