Musician Archive
Thread: Feedback needed Jukebox Player Event Perk
So, in case they're dense enough not to have a clue that such a device could devastate the Musician profession, they've been properly notifed, and I WILL /bug this tonight on TC-Gorath, and I encourage any other Musician concerned about the way these things are being implemented to do the same. Go ahead and just copy/paste my /bug into your report, or add your own phrasing, but be polite and be firm about your opinion of these things.
I foresee hearing not one word about this, as in the past we've not been any kind of priority when we raise concerns. The Devs are definitely aware whether they reply or not, though I requested a response. I refuse to repeatedly post the same thing over 4 weeks for any kind of acknowledgement of my existence, so I will only repost tomorrow if I get no response, then assume all hope is lost for being treated with dignity.
And I'm fully serious - if the Jukeboxes go Live the way they are, I want "Jukebox" to become a playable profession, because they pretty much do everything I've wanted to do as a Musician in this game since I started playing one year ago - that's $179.88 ago, just like anyone else who plays this game.Jukeboxes play real Star Wars music, and they get 25,000 creditsfor doing it. Sounds damn good to me, where's the Jukebox trainer?
I can understand people saying they shouldn't exist, period... but I am willing to accept them as a musician's craftable record-playing device.
AS has been said... players are SO in love with these jukeboxes, we're only going to be the bad guys here... no matter what.
So what though? I don't think we can get any lower on the public's social scale. (Not bad for a "social profession")
Once again I was too caught up in my other pursuits to notice this potential disaster to my first and fore-most profession, Musician.
I've been this profession since launch.
They don't consider entertainers into thier coding of this game anymore.
We've all seen the writing on the wall for a long while now... if this goes in, it's the final nail in the coffin.
The original idea for the entertainer professions was a great one, wasn't it?
Wow, it sure got steered down the wrong path!
I'm going to add this... it is my true feedback on these jukeboxes and the devistation they will cause to our profession...
If they go in like this (25k from an NPC) I ask the Devs to grant us a free Re-Spec for our characters.
I no longer wish to spend my skill points on something so game-mechanically useless.
Sure I love hopping on my nalargon or breaking into a solo perfomance on my chidi in the wilderness... That's why I'm still a musician after all tis time... But that's not enough for what I'm paying and for what I expected to experience.
I'm a loyal and devoted person (occasionaly to a fault) and I don't quit on things that I love.
I have to be a realist at some point.
If they go and code this into the game, they have no plans to ever bring respect and fun back to our profession.
Not enough to appease me.
I know they won't give me a free re-spec (They should though), so I will drop Master Musician and all Entertainer Skills and enjoy this game in another way.
I've held out this long, but this is the end.
That's my honest feedback.
I'll see you guys in TC-Gorrath!
I'm not going out without a fight... I'm /bugging this, and trying to make our voices heard!
(Part of me almost wants to see this go live so I can finally feel 100% confident about dropping musician, beacuse I just don't believe they'll ever get us sorted out properly)
May the force be with you.
- Omadda Szool
Kauri
Message Edited by omadnay on 02-23-2005 02:32 PM
I truly hope you can keep it up... it'll be the best thing you could possibly do for yourselves and those close to you!
It's soooo tough, but it's soooo worth it.
May the force be with you.
- Omadda Szool
Kauri
LyteFoot wrote:
I disagree Warryyr these things should not exist. The purpose of this and the other new tools was to enhance "player events" not for general use; however the design makes them fairly general use. Turning them into a crafted item that we are involved in takes them all the way to general use.
The devs totally ignored us not by accident but on purpose. They looked at player events and the desire to have music at them, well you know what that was already possible. However instead of fixing the speakers, extending our list of songs, and correctly giving musicians the tools to improve our performance at player events they removed us completley. They consciously decided that we are irrelevant and unneccesary at player events, i.e. we aren't players.
I'll keep musician for a while because I love it. I won't be a crafter, I won't be an emote-machine for something else's performance, and I won't be a "relaxation specialist" who only hands out buffs. If people stop wanting musicians I will give them their wish as much as that hurts.
Well said.
However, I'll say that I don't think the Devs consciously decided we are irrelevant and unnecessary at player events. I think it was more of - they didn't really consider us at all in the first place. Which would be worse? I don't know.
I do VERY much like how you worded this:
"They looked at player events and the desire to have music at them, well you know what that was already possible. However instead of fixing the speakers, extending our list of songs, and correctly giving musicians the tools to improve our performance at player events they removed us completley."
That pretty much sums it up right there. Rather than improve our gameplay and content, we were just negated for player events.
WE should be the so-called "jukeboxes." Why not enable some mode for us to make the flourishing moves irrelevant (meaning we can do motions, but not dictated by the music playing) and WE are the ones who "jukebox" the real Star Wars soundtrack music? Give us an /ambient command (our sound travels throughout the room we're in, without a need to /listen). Give US the jukebox's fine new tunes. Let us perform the songs that so many people want - even if instrument choice is irrelevant. I dunno, just include us in player events and don't negate us.
I'll bet the entire mindset of the Devs was most likely "Musicians will get their revamp like everyone else, in the non-combat prof revamps." The only problem they didn't consider was that they've set themselves up, as well as us, for a losing battle - the second jukeboxes are the preferred method for music, we're screwed. We'll never compete, unless our entire musical ability is overhauled and we got at least 30 or 40 songs to play (new songs, that sound good, like soundtrack songs).
Message Edited by Warryyr on 02-23-2005 12:07 PM
Warryyr wrote:
Well, I posted a /bug in the TC-Gorath Bug Thread stating:
The Jukebox is a better Musician than I can ever hope to be. And an NPC gets 25k for it. /bug to be submitted shortly.
And I close it off with:
Don't get me wrong - the Jukebox is VERY cool and more real Star Wars music is VERY MUCH needed in SWG (which is why Musicians have asked for MORE MUSIC since we were first in this game). I only wish Musicians could play some role in any significant music additions toSWG, and it's apparent by the Jukebox implementation that we will soon have NOTHING to do with real Star Wars in SWG, we are second rate to a terminal that costs 25k to anyone who wants one, for up to 8 hours of quality musical enjoyment. I know that many other Musicians would love to be a part of - oh, I dunno - new music in SWG. After all Devs - we're MUSICIANS.
If the jukebox goes Live the way it is, then I request the ability to play a Jukebox in SWG. Because it playsall the musicI've wanted to play in SWG andit gets 25k to do it.
So, in case they're dense enough not to have a clue that such a device could devastate the Musician profession, they've been properly notifed, and I WILL /bug this tonight on TC-Gorath, and I encourage any other Musician concerned about the way these things are being implemented to do the same. Go ahead and just copy/paste my /bug into your report, or add your own phrasing, but be polite and be firm about your opinion of these things.
I foresee hearing not one word about this, as in the past we've not been any kind of priority when we raise concerns. The Devs are definitely aware whether they reply or not, though I requested a response. I refuse to repeatedly post the same thing over 4 weeks for any kind of acknowledgement of my existence, so I will only repost tomorrow if I get no response, then assume all hope is lost for being treated with dignity.
And I'm fully serious - if the Jukeboxes go Live the way they are, I want "Jukebox" to become a playable profession, because they pretty much do everything I've wanted to do as a Musician in this game since I started playing one year ago - that's $179.88 ago, just like anyone else who plays this game.Jukeboxes play real Star Wars music, and they get 25,000 creditsfor doing it. Sounds damn good to me, where's the Jukebox trainer?
I hear ya... I have now posted in the current TC bug thread regarding this (I chose to put a slightly different spin on the matter though 
), and I'll try to get on TC-Gorath later today and /bug it there. I can only encourage everyone to post in that bug thread too. It may not help much, but speaking for myself here - I'll be damned if I'll just take this meekly and quietly...
Esharra wrote:
Moonkat wrote:Since they won't be playing music that's better for parties and dancing, I don't think it will have an effect.The Mos Eisley cantina music is included..definitely party music. My greatest concern is that the jukebox is ambient and we aren't. For a player to hear us they have to /listen. The jukebox requires no effort for a player to hear the music (other than being in the vacinity). Do I think this will impact the number of requests I get to play at weddings, parties and events? Most definitely..yes.
What I'd like to see: Make us ambient. Players should be able to hear us if they are near where we are playing. Maybe make this happen through the use of microphones and speakers (while it has been suggested that the microphones and speakers in Coronet, Theed & Bestine are for this purpose and some have claimed to be able to use them for such, as many times as I've turned them on, I've yet to be able to make it work). Players should have to target and /listen in order to get the benefits of our mechanics..but not just to hear us at a party.
Give us more context appropriate music. Oh what I would do for something..anything..that worked better for weddings than Ceremonial! Give us more music period. Players are getting tired of us playing the same old thing time & again. Even Western has lost its charm after hearing it so many times.
I recall seeing a post (by Thunderheart, maybe?) that they had code to make the microphones and speakers work, but even in a virtual space, feedback was a problem, as the mike would pick up the output of the speakers, and apparently produce some "interesting" audio effects.
I don't know what/if the solution for that is.
starcraftWS wrote:Well it looks like it's going live as is tomorrow
Yeah, just came to say the same thing.
:/
I'm kind of surprised thier pushing this one already... besides our issues, this publish seems to be a bit premature.
*Puts tin-foil hat on and starts crawling under the desk*
- Omadda Szool
Kauri
JimerLins wrote:
I recall seeing a post (by Thunderheart, maybe?) that they had code to make the microphones and speakers work, but even in a virtual space, feedback was a problem, as the mike would pick up the output of the speakers, and apparently produce some "interesting" audio effects.
I don't know what/if the solution for that is.
The solution is simple don't code it as a microphone, it is afterall code not physical hardware. Simply change the mic so it hears only the sounds of the musician group who turned it on. DUH SOE detail design docs, design reviews, flow charts, brain storming sessions? Try some of the well understood and typical design tools we use every day to produce much more complex business applications.