CUEmu - Thread Posts

Beery

Fri Aug 06, 2004 7:17 pm

"Yea, there will always be people who are AFK, evne after the hologrind, but those numbers will quickly drop."

They've already dropped to pre-hologrind levels in the last couple of weeks. AFKing was our biggest issue before the hologrind because there were just aboutthis many AFKers. I agree completely withthe progression of the problem as you presented it, but I think you haveunderestimated the problem that AFKers posed BEFORE the hologrind came into being. Your examplenumber 2is not wholly accurate: AFKingwas indeeda BIG deal at that point, and many AFKers found that after they ground the profession, there was a lack of content, so they gave up - which presented a situation similar to the hologrind. We had a steady stream of AFKers who AFK macroed their way to master, only to dump it a few days later.

The AFK problem has been with us in a serious form since the game arrived on my hard drive in July of '03. Entertainers have been clamouring for the developers to do something about it for over a year now. It has been the biggest topic of discussion on the dancer, musician, and entertainer forums from day 1until the advent of the buffbot.

Message Edited by Beery on 08-06-2004 10:24 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since June 2004, running one of the game's first completely nonviolent characters. Testing the limits of non-combat MMORPG play and trying to have fun into the bargain (although the developers make it difficult).

Combat is no longer compulsory.

Straker_Atrella

Fri Aug 06, 2004 7:54 pm

#54

Beery wrote:

"Yea, there will always be people who are AFK, evne after the hologrind, but those numbers will quickly drop."

They've already dropped to pre-hologrind levels in the last couple of weeks. AFKing was our biggest issue before the hologrind because there were just aboutthis many AFKers. I agree completely withthe progression of the problem as you presented it, but I think you haveunderestimated the problem that AFKers posed BEFORE the hologrind came into being. Your examplenumber 2is not wholly accurate: AFKingwas indeeda BIG deal at that point, and many AFKers found that after they ground the profession, there was a lack of content, so they gave up - which presented a situation similar to the hologrind. We had a steady stream of AFKers who AFK macroed their way to master, only to dump it a few days later.

The AFK problem has been with us in a serious form since the game arrived on my hard drive in July of '03. Entertainers have been clamouring for the developers to do something about it for over a year now. It has been the biggest topic of discussion on the dancer, musician, and entertainer forums from day 1until the advent of the buffbot.

Message Edited by Beery on 08-06-2004 10:24 PM

And no matter what happens with the macro system, people will still AFK.

The grind has not stopped, people are still able to get their Jedis now by grinding. So if as you say, the numbers now are equal to before the Hologrind, then that means when the hologrind is actually done, the numbers will be less.

Yes 2 or 3 AFK people grinding in the cantina may annoy you, but are they actually hurting you? If they are buffbots, yea maybe, we have talked many GOOD solutions for that. Yet if they are not buffbots, they are not really hurting anybody.

Look at why people feel a NEED to afk Entertainer to fix the problem.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Droid Vendor at Resurection near Theed on Naboo -5757 6222. Both carry a wide variety of maxed Droids, I also carry every type of Droid and Droid supply.

*Straker Atrella: Dark Jedi * Atrella's Wench: Master Droid Engineer / Artisan / Scout / Merchant * Dark Vortex: Ranger / Rifleman * Havana:Musician / Dancer / Image Design * Enigmatica : Doctor / Swordsman* CrazyEyes: Role playing BH.

StikerRunningfly

Sat Aug 07, 2004 12:57 am

#55

A few issues here, since we got off the topic of my original post, and I would like to address them:

I saw a comment in one of the replies in this thread referring to what the underlying problem is to begin with. I firmly believe that AFK macros were the underlying cause of everything that the musicians and dancers are complaining about now. I'm sure that some of you have NEVER gone afk EVER. I'm sure that some of you have NEVER used a macro to do your flourishes EVER. But think of the hundreds of other people around you, those ones that you see make it to master and simply disappear. The hundreds of entertainers you have seen in various cantinas that never say a word unless it's programmed into a macro. Many of them were hologrinding, this is true. I'll never forget the day I walked into Theed on Bria and the entire place was filled with dancing zombies all the way up to the door. I'll never forget the first piece of spam that hit my screen that day. It was a dancing commando that said, "Heal me tip me whatever I dont care just watch me so I dont have to do this STUPID dancing anymore". I immediately turned around and left, contacted some dancer friends, and met them in Keren cantina for my healing. Many others were not hologrinders, but hearing tales of the one dancer who made several million in tips, decided it was an easy way to make a few credits by setting up a macro and leaving it run while they went and did other things in the real world. They quickly learned their foolishness, and moved on to other things. And even some others who think that being a musician or dancer means setting up a macro and leaving it there. Most of these people are following the example of the others.

Regardless of why they were afk all the time to begin with, the fact remains that there were literally hundreds of people online at anytime who were simply not there. Now let's move to the position of the combat player, who needs BF healed or wants a mind buff. We'll use my pikeman/doctor character as an example:

Anyone here? I would like to purchase a buff. (29 counted entertainers in Theed at 10pm EST on Kettemoor, several masters)

*begins listening and watching to get BF healed*

Anyone? Hello? (no response)

*check inventory for buffpacks*

I have 2 quickness buffs here, they're free to the first 2 entertainers who send me a tell (dead silence)

*stiffs all entertainers and leaves to go find a buffbot on Dantooine*

This is a perfect example of a regular occurance in most of the "populated" cantinas.

Now many of you, especially those of you who know me at all will be thinking, "Klayton! You're a musician AND a dancer. And with the amount of support you've been showing for the anti-buffbot issue, WHY would you go and use a buffbot?" Let me explain something here. I am not strictly against buffbots. I see them as an attempt at a solution to the REAL problem, all the damn AFK entertainers. People simply throwing up characters, setting up macros, and walking away for the rest of the day so they don't have to deal with grinding, or god forbid, talking to people, is bad. It creates a very boring game for those who actually play their characters. It creates the illusion that musicians and dancers don't care about the rest of the community, and are just a bunch of whining crybabies who always complain about not making any money when they aren't doing anything to begin with. Want to know why there aren't too many doctor buffbots? Because most doctors are AT THE KEYBOARD performing their jobs. And if one isn't, or wont/can't buff right now, there is most likely another one nearby.

In conclusion, I'd like to make a proposal to all the regular entertainers, musicians and dancers. If you are the leader of a group, and some people are AFK the entire time, BOOT THEM. You can't support people being afk by helping them gain xp faster, then get upset because other players get frustrated and create their own buffbots because they can't even get a reply from the regular entertainers. If you're in a group, and most people are afk, LEAVE THE GROUP. Tell the others who are ATK that you are starting a new group for the people who are not afk. If you're performing in a cantina, and some clown is spamming the same thing over and over, and is obviously afk, ADD THEM TO THE IGNORE LIST. DON'T train these people in skills, don't group with them so they can get XP faster and not even have to do anything but push 1 button in the morning. They couldn't give 2 ****s about you because they are adding to the whole AFK problem, which as I explained, is the cause of problem to begin with.

Klayton

Master Entertainer/Musician/Dancer

Shadowfire

Beery

Sat Aug 07, 2004 4:28 am

#56

"....no matter what happens with the macro system, people will still AFK."

But that is absolutely no reason to do nothing about the problem. The harder they make it to play whileAFK, the less AFKers there will be. Sure, some people will always abuse the system - that happens in the best systems, but right now this system can be routinely abused by anyone with an ounce of knowledge regarding macros. A casual player, within a day or two, can find out how to make a macro that will allow him to play for hours while AFK. Why not make it harder for them? If it is a bit harder, less players will do it, and that's a good thing This has been a major issue for many players since the beginning, and for SOEto ignore it is financial suicide.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since June 2004, running one of the game's first completely nonviolent characters. Testing the limits of non-combat MMORPG play and trying to have fun into the bargain (although the developers make it difficult).

Combat is no longer compulsory.

Beery

Sun Aug 08, 2004 12:51 am

#57

"Sure it involves the problem, for 2 reasons.

1. AFK numbers are going to keep dropping."

No they are not. Your opinion ist that they're going to keep dropping, but the history of the gameshows usthat AFK macroing has been pretty consistently at the level it is right now. We've already lost all the extra AFKers that existed due to the hologrind - they are alreadygone. I've mentioned this about 3 times now in conversation with you. You refuse to believe me, or you just want to ignore this fact and hope it goes away. We have time to wait and see. I'm confident that the AFK problem is not going to get appreciably better after publish 10. I'll tell you what: I'll do counts of percentages of AFKers versus ATK playersin Coronet on Starsiderat the peak playing time onthe weekdays next week, and then I'll do similar countsat the same time during the week after publish 10 comes out. We'll see if there's any difference. I'll post the results here each time. Then one of us can admit the other was right.

"2. All your really doing then is making a change for a small amount of people. These small amount of people "may" still afk using 3rd party aps. Yet at the same time, taking that ability from others. You are creating a world of haves and have nots."

Only if you assume that the game is currently fairly balanced. It is not. We already have a world of haves and have-nots, and the have-nots are leaving what is, to them, a sinking ship. This change is meant to (in part) even out the current imbalances, stop the exodus of entertainers from the game, andstabilize the game as thenew influx of players arrives with JTL. It will certainly do that, if it's done properly. No it's not a perfect solution, but there never is a perfect solution to any problem.

It oftenseems to melike you want no solution to this problem. That would be fine if there was no problem, but this is a problem that has reached epidemic proportions, and which is clearly threatening the viability of this game. Many people don't see how serious the problem is. If it goes unchecked, I would imagine the usefullifespan of this game may be as short asa year from now. If this game fails after2 years, the chances of a sequel are virtually nonexistent. This game is in serious trouble and has been in trouble since the very beginning. People are leaving the game in droves, and nowhere is that more apparent than in the entertainer professions. That might not matter to the leets out there: they will play any game, genre matters not to them. But to Star Wars fans, the prematuredeath of this game will be a serious blow.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since June 2004, running one of the game's first completely nonviolent characters. Testing the limits of non-combat MMORPG play and trying to have fun into the bargain (although the developers make it difficult).

Combat is no longer compulsory.

bn-ny

Sun Aug 08, 2004 4:27 am

#58

Alaisoccer wrote:

??Does anyone really run around as an entertainer?? as there primary profession

yes

i love being an entertainer

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find out it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible."

T.E. Lawrence

Beery

Sun Aug 08, 2004 6:56 am

#59

Alaisoccer wrote:

"??Does anyone really run around as an entertainer?? as there primary profession"

I make all of my money as an entertainer. I have no combat skills at all. I don't even own a weapon, and on the very first day of playI got rid ofthe pistol I got during the tutorial. I've been playing with this characterfor over a month now. I've mastered three professionsand Ihave over 25 badges,and despite getting all those badges I've never once had to clone (although a couple of times it was close) andI've never killed a single NPC, character orcreature since that first day. I've never made any money at all except what I made from entertaining.

So yes. I think you could say that I play entertainer as my primary profession. I doubt if there's anyone playing this game that plays more as an entertainer than me - meaning that I think most entertainers have some other money-making career (entertaining isn't very well-paid). And I doubt if there's anyone in this game who has played the game as long as I have without killing something or someone.

You can play this game without combat skills. Combat in this game is an option, not a necessity. I am living proof of that.

Message Edited by Beery on 08-08-2004 10:02 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since June 2004, running one of the game's first completely nonviolent characters. Testing the limits of non-combat MMORPG play and trying to have fun into the bargain (although the developers make it difficult).

Combat is no longer compulsory.

Ravanne_Esi

Sun Aug 08, 2004 10:10 am

#60

Straker_Atrella wrote:

2. All your really doing then is making a change for a small amount of people. These small amount of people "may" still afk using 3rd party aps. Yet at the same time, taking that ability from others. You are creating a world of haves and have nots.

This is the equivilent of saying since some people have an unfair advantagebecause they perform criminal acts and don't get caught that everyone should be allowed to commit criminal acts. I really have trouble with the attitude of so many people, just because some people will go to any length to do the wrong thing for their own personal gain is no reason to encourage everyone to do the wrong thing.

Ravanne Esi
Master Dancer, Master Entertainer, Master Musician
Ragin' Rancor Enterprises
New Hope, Naboo

-

Straker_Atrella

Sun Aug 08, 2004 3:08 pm

#61

Beery wrote:

"Sure it involves the problem, for 2 reasons.

1. AFK numbers are going to keep dropping."

No they are not. Your opinion ist that they're going to keep dropping, but the history of the gameshows usthat AFK macroing has been pretty consistently at the level it is right now. We've already lost all the extra AFKers that existed due to the hologrind - they are alreadygone. I've mentioned this about 3 times now in conversation with you. You refuse to believe me, or you just want to ignore this fact and hope it goes away. We have time to wait and see. I'm confident that the AFK problem is not going to get appreciably better after publish 10. I'll tell you what: I'll do counts of percentages of AFKers versus ATK playersin Coronet on Starsiderat the peak playing time onthe weekdays next week, and then I'll do similar countsat the same time during the week after publish 10 comes out. We'll see if there's any difference. I'll post the results here each time. Then one of us can admit the other was right.

"2. All your really doing then is making a change for a small amount of people. These small amount of people "may" still afk using 3rd party aps. Yet at the same time, taking that ability from others. You are creating a world of haves and have nots."

Only if you assume that the game is currently fairly balanced. It is not. We already have a world of haves and have-nots, and the have-nots are leaving what is, to them, a sinking ship. This change is meant to (in part) even out the current imbalances, stop the exodus of entertainers from the game, andstabilize the game as thenew influx of players arrives with JTL. It will certainly do that, if it's done properly. No it's not a perfect solution, but there never is a perfect solution to any problem.

It oftenseems to melike you want no solution to this problem. That would be fine if there was no problem, but this is a problem that has reached epidemic proportions, and which is clearly threatening the viability of this game. Many people don't see how serious the problem is. If it goes unchecked, I would imagine the usefullifespan of this game may be as short asa year from now. If this game fails after2 years, the chances of a sequel are virtually nonexistent. This game is in serious trouble and has been in trouble since the very beginning. People are leaving the game in droves, and nowhere is that more apparent than in the entertainer professions. That might not matter to the leets out there: they will play any game, genre matters not to them. But to Star Wars fans, the prematuredeath of this game will be a serious blow.

So right now you DON'T think people are still trying to unlock their Jedi before publish 10? Yea right. Nobody knows how long the quest iwll be or what advantage they will get from their professions. MANY people are still scrambling to unlock their Jedi slot, even though they wont be able to use it until publish 10. I know 5 people personnally.

So yea maybe AFK levels now are at the same point they were pre-holo, that doesn't mean people arn't still doing it for Jedi, it also doesn't mean it wont drop further. Heck, you can probably expect an INCREASE in afk Entertaining when theyannounce whenthis will go into effect. People will try and level up their own Buffers before they lose the ability to do so AFK.

Please explain to me the current situation of haves and have not's in the game. What can one group of people get that another group can't? What is their advantage and what prevents others from having it as well?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Droid Vendor at Resurection near Theed on Naboo -5757 6222. Both carry a wide variety of maxed Droids, I also carry every type of Droid and Droid supply.

*Straker Atrella: Dark Jedi * Atrella's Wench: Master Droid Engineer / Artisan / Scout / Merchant * Dark Vortex: Ranger / Rifleman * Havana:Musician / Dancer / Image Design * Enigmatica : Doctor / Swordsman* CrazyEyes: Role playing BH.

Beery

Thu Oct 21, 2004 11:10 pm

#62

"So yea maybe AFK levels now are at the same point they were pre-holo, that doesn't mean people arn't still doing it for Jedi, it also doesn't mean it wont drop further."

So Straker, I said I'd come back and check on this issue, because you were so sure that you were right and I was wrong. So it's been 2 1/2 months. The hologrind is over. Have AFK levels dropped yet?

Didn't think so.

Let's wait another couple of months. Maybe they'll drop after JTL. Maybe they'll drop after Christmas. Maybe after Summer 2005. Maybe by 2010. I won't hold my breath. Meanwhile, I suggest you start writinga retraction. Clearly the numbers ofAFKers have very little to do with the hologrind, as I said all along.

Message Edited by Beery on 10-22-2004 02:13 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since June 2004, running one of the game's first completely nonviolent characters. Testing the limits of non-combat MMORPG play and trying to have fun into the bargain (although the developers make it difficult).

Combat is no longer compulsory.

Springbok

Fri Oct 22, 2004 4:13 pm

#63

StikerRunningfly wrote:

Regardless of why they were afk all the time to begin with, the fact remains that there were literally hundreds of people online at anytime who were simply not there. Now let's move to the position of the combat player, who needs BF healed or wants a mind buff. We'll use my pikeman/doctor character as an example:

Anyone here? I would like to purchase a buff. (29 counted entertainers in Theed at 10pm EST on Kettemoor, several masters)

*begins listening and watching to get BF healed*

Anyone? Hello? (no response)

*check inventory for buffpacks*

I have 2 quickness buffs here, they're free to the first 2 entertainers who send me a tell (dead silence)

*stiffs all entertainers and leaves to go find a buffbot on Dantooine*

This is a perfect example of a regular occurance in most of the "populated" cantinas.

Send one of them a tell.

You see the spam. Passively trying to get a buff form a live who has to flter through /say's galore, addignore left and right, and (because its an option left to us) are usually in group or tell hell to pass the time, thats how we have fun sometimes) Its not ok to /tell a master for a buff, they HAVE to see you in say....but for some reason the buffbot is justified because you can see there /say's which inundate everyone else's spatial with spam.

You might have a point if you sent a tell to every entertainer in there and got nothing. But themmissing random /say's in a cantina is a perfectly legitimate and understandable mistake.

29 entertainers in there as you say....(nevermind the (ie.)10-15 other people in there spatial chatting) maybe 4 were at the keyboard...2 of those masters. (Hint: Masters learn pretty quickly afk spamming in a cantina is a complete waste of time since your not gonna really get tipped at all) The other 25 entertainers? all afk and spamming most likely. Now the 2 masters who could have buffed you missed 3 passive spatial comments about a buff from you over a series of ....3...5...7...10 minutes?

How unbelievable they missed some spatial chat from one out of 45 people in the cantina! lol

Springbok

Fri Oct 22, 2004 4:25 pm

#64

Now on to a seperate point:

A person is hunting on dant. Doc buff runs out. Its a non peak time. They goto the mining outpost. No doc's buffing. They go to Cnet, no doc's buffing. They goto Theed, no doc's buffing. Now they try to network friends, and friends of friends, guildmates, citizens of same pa city as them, to find a buff. If nothing they go to theed, cnet, or mining outpost and wait.

A person needs an ent buff. They goto the buffbot and get there buff.

Argument: They wait because they're more doctors than master ent's to buff in game. IF there were no buffbot's, past the recursive macro ending era and a dry spell....there would be MORE ent's to buff people. Dare I say as many doc's.

Why is one rational excusable but the other is not?

Tammylynn

Sat Oct 23, 2004 10:18 am

#65

Springbok wrote:

Now on to a seperate point:

Argument: They wait because they're more doctors than master ent's to buff in game. IF there were no buffbot's, past the recursive macro ending era and a dry spell....there would be MORE ent's to buff people. Dare I say as many doc's.

Why is one rational excusable but the other is not?

Not really directed at anyone only a few thoughts I have.

If there was a reason to buff I will start again, right now I mostly play music at my leasure and enjoy the few that stop and talk. (I play a lot at theed, the unmovable instruments by starport). If the AFK in game stoped I would turn my title back on (shows novice entertainer mostly).

I do get request for buffs from people that have added me to friends list and they have always treated me with respect, I will go out of my way to meet them at the planet they are on and buff their group. I also thank them for calling on me. I only do this with a few select groups anymore, They are my source of income and as I have told them many times they entertain me!

Some days they ask me to join them on their hunt, I have very little fighting skills,all is in music and dance, But I have so much fun going with them to keep them buffed and wounds healed in camps.

I wish more people would understand thet not all 'live' entertainers park themselves in one spot and stay. Try inviting us on your group/guild missions. If anything you will get a laugh while I hit a Rancor with my mando! Why search for a buff when you may have a friend that will be happy to go with you.

Just something for all all the hunters/pvp people to think about.

Musician Archive

Thread: A note to all those people who can't get buffs because you play during off-peak hours.