Musician Archive
Thread: From your Correspondent: inviting suggestions on AFK'ing
Imcus wrote:
I also do not think that AFK entertainers running macros should receive XP or tips.They should at best receive them at a substantially reduced rate.
To make this work, the"penalty" for being AFKcould possibly begin after being AFK for 5, 10 or 15 minutes, which, with a30 minute AFK timer would still give the entertainer up to45 minutes before it would reduce or stop their advancement.
To do this the option the toggle auto AFK would have to be removed, but you could still set the length of time before you are displayed as AFK (up to the 30 minutes already allowed).
This would still give more than a fair amount of time to people who have to grab a drink, use the facilities...etc... while making it less advantageous to people who log on and go to work or school and leave their entertainer grinding away and annoying others.
Just an idea... what do you think?
This, and similar ideas, make it significantly less effective for people to AFKhowever it doesn't address the Isssue of having the AFKer still cluttering up the cantinas and it wouldn't stop an obnoxious macro. The person might be getting no XP or Tips but still be shouting every 30 sec "HEAL PLZ!!!" or "GIV ALL TIPS!!!!!" or any of the obnoxious chat spamming things that we see all the time currently. The AFKers will still go AFK just for the 45min of free XP after they leave then were stuck with them for the rest of the night because the loop won't stop after 45min. They've already built the macroso there is no reason that they won't set it running and infact are more likely to leave it running even in circumstances where they might not now. They'll want that 45min of XP everytime they can get it and they will be even less concerned than they are now about irritating the non AFK people because AFK will have been 'fixed' at that point but a system like this still won't prevent them from doing it.
I come from a perspective that I'm not really worked up onthis issueabout the people getting free XP or whatever. I'll admit I don't think it really reflects well on the whole profession that a large number of our ranks has leveled AFK. The criticism that we get from some of the other professions seems at least somewhat justified under the circumstances. However, I truly dislike what all of the AFKbotshave done to the to the feel of the cantinas. Hanging out and being a live performer in a cantina full of drones issignificantlyworse than being in a cantina with no one in it.At least in an empty cantina you know that there is no one is there.A lot of the NPCs in the game are more interesting and have more personality thanthe average AFKent and NPCs aren't great conversationalists. Further, AFKers cheapen our healing abilities why would anyone tip when they can get what they want for free (not that I'm expecting uber oreven beter tips after an AFK solution). The AFKmasters healing in the remote locations are pulling in quite a bit for the effort but it makes it more difficult for someone new to go out and work those cantinas.The audience can listen to the master and get healed super fast or they can listen to someone working thru the profession and get healed slower. Most times they are goingto choose the master so they can get back to hunting quicker.AFKers also eliminate the effectiveness of the one tool that has been given to us to deal with abusive patrons, /denyservice. As it is now using /denyservice on an abusive patron only causes them to stay in the cantina longer because there isalmost always (at least in the cities with the higher populatons)some AFKer that they can watch to heal, it will just take them longer.
Well that was a lot longer thanI planned but I really wanted to get out the reasons that IMHO something needs to be done about the AFK situation and why I believe simply stoping the XP/tip gain without getting them out of the cantina or other performance area won't actually do much to improve the situation and possibly make it even worse than it currently is.
Osrim wrote:
my main problem with afk musicians is when they are group leader. I am sick of telling people they cant join the band because the leader is afk and didn't bother to /make leader someone else. When a group leader goes afk the leadership should automatically pass to someone else.
Just discuss with the live members of the band that the leader went AFK and break up the band. Have someone responsible reform the band and invite the new people in. Just leave the AFK former bandleader doing their thing along with the other AFKers and talk with them when they get back about not going AFK as leader and making sure they hand leader off to some one who is livebefore they go AFK next time. Having control of the group in the hands of some one that is actually there will in the long term benefit the group more than the XP bonus from the inconsiderate AFK leader.
Bandlero wrote:
... Artisans can't survey while afk, ...
No, but they can sample while AFK. And if they do it anywhere except inside a city boundary, the game won't log them off. Since there is obviously special code in there to keep them from AFK macro sampling inside the city, but it's permitted out where (in theory) an aggressive mob could spawn, I've been assuming that it's permitted. I don't do it, but I've stopped calling it an exploit.
Bandlero wrote:
... fighters can't fight while AFK.
Sure they can. If they're teamed with a Squad Leader, and he's the group leader, and they're set to /follow him, then he can command everybody's attacks the way an entertainer uses /bandflorish. No special attacks, but still, free XP for as long as the Squad Leader is willing to carry them. It was designed that way.
Not to mention that even though they nerfed it 80%, there are still artisans counting on the factory XP they get while AFK. AFK heck, they get that while not even logged in. Usage XP, too.
Not to mention that lots of scouts are using AFK macros to grind their way up through Wilderness Survival XP.
In fact, pretty much every profession can gain AFK XP.
What's more, if your solution to AFK macroing depends on watching for keyboard input, keep in mind that there is nothing that Sony can do to stop people from using 3rd party keyboard macro drivers to defeat that. It qualifies as an exploit, but it's basically undetectable.
I don't do it myself - not as an artisan, not as a scout, not as a musician. Never did. As a musician, I actually find it rather aggravating if somebody does it for long spans of time. 15 minutes here and there, that's what AFK and macros were invented for. On the other hand, 8 hours, 12 hours at a stretch? That's just rude.
But I'll tell you what, I increasingly don't blame entertainers who do do it, because Great Cthulhu, it takes forever listening to the same song over and over again or dancing the same florishes over and over again, for countless ungodly hours, to level up Music XP or Dance XP! In the time it takes to Master either Musician or Dancer, I could probably master both Architect and Tailor. I've been playing music in one of the most crowded cantinas in the game, half a dozen or more hours a week, and at this rate it will easily be another month, month and a half just to get to Music Knowledge II, when I get my bandfill. We're talking spending another twenty hours listening to the same couple of tunes, over and over again - more than half of that time listening to Rock.
I can stand it - mostly - I think. But I hardly blame anybody else who can't stand it.
Personally, I don't get the "heat" with AFK macroers. They are not likely to retain their Master Musician title long enough to besmerch it anyway. You've got to want it bad enough to dedicate 100 skill points to it.
But I would like to point out a few things:
NewJedi, have you been able to amass any sort of opinions from players in the game? As a longtime MMOG player and a forum junkie, I often see a wide disparity between what's considered a problem and what's trully one. There are alot less people that post than who play. However, it's entirely possible that every dedicated musician posts. That's why I ask 
How to address AFK macroers. They're here until they remove the /ui action toolbarSlot command, and then their numbers will be diminished. You'd also need to limit the length of a macro sequence. I think there's a few features that could be added to work around them.
Disband Timer. Someone AFK in a band for a preset amount of time (say 15 minutes) gets automatically disbanded.
Groupleader Timer. If a group leader is playing and AFK for 15 minutes, the game randomly picks a new group leader from all players in the band not AFK.
Remove the "Auto AFK" checkbox. Default it to on. Default it to on after 15 minutes. The above two rules begin at that point. That means 30 minutes after walking away, a new Groupleader is decided, and at the 45 minute mark they are disbanded.
It should be noted that these are in addition to commands that already exist. If someone has a huge problem with an AFKer, they can invoke a /stopband command and disband the player (or ask for /stopband and disband).
If this becomes a really militant issue, then the absolute most aggressive thing you can do is have the game turn off the healing function of someone AFK. Now they can't hit MM. They can't even get into the advanced profession. This would force them at least at the keyboard.
But seriously folks, how much of this is trully an issue? It doesn't give us a bad name. It actually gives true entertainers additional benefits. People accept AFKing from all professions. But they'll actively enjoy being with someone who isn't and is into their class.
We're not a collection of skills. We're people that chose a path because we enjoy it. If someone comes along and simply wants to achieve, let them! Soon enough they'll be off to achieve something else.
Sorry, I meant that to have some formatting.
And I meant to include a result of turning off the healing function of an AFKer. Basically, this is two-fold:
- You'd need to turn off their ability to register a location so that people don't come along and expect to be healed when they won't be able to be.
- This advertises active musicians. Yes, someone can still get MT and MK, but the much harder skillboxes for a solo AFKer are the 12 healing boxes anyway. Someone walks into a cantina. They see someone practicing in the corner, AFK. They see someone else not AFK. They are now compelled, by a funciton of the game design, to go to the non-AFKer, with all of the bells and whistles that come along with it.
It's still a very radical concept though, one maybe too much so. I can see lots of people complaining, but for the most part, I envision that those people would be least likely to hang onto Music anyway. I don't mind the Achiever archetype. I just think there's ways to make their impact on the lives of others lessened.
I play a combat profession(smuggler), here something to think about AFK macro'ing for the entertainers.
I go to many cantinas that are not very populated and may or may not have an entertainer there. It's angers me to go to a cantina and see no one there. I am actually glad to see an entertainer there, and most times it is only one entertainer there and they are AFK. For myself and others we are glad that someone is there and we don't have to travel to another city or planet when we are figthing or hunting in a certain region.
Don't get me wrong, if I walk into a cantina and see a AFK musican playing and a live musician playing, I am going to tip the live musician. Because that's my choice, plus I know alot of other players who will do the same.
I far as some ideas I saw in this forum, I think auto kick from group is bad, I think that should be the choice of group and group leader. If they have a problem with afk'er in their group, let them decide they should kick the person out.
If you take away the xp from AFK'ers, then I can see your numbers dwindle. Which is bad for me. That would make it hassle to go find an entertainer to heal my mind wounds and battle fatigue. I don't want my experience to be frustrating, especially if I am giving credits to your profession.
The way I see it, if entertainers are having fun entertaining and socializing and making tips while doing it, how are the AFK'ers impacting your profession?
I just don't want your numbers to dwindle, or else alot of players(combat) will want the devs to give them alternative to heal the mind wounds and battle fatigue, which will kill your profession.
IMHO, I could be wrong. I just wanted show a different perspective on the issue.
Perhaps I should expand on that a little.. Because of the way people treat entertainers as heal bots, it just isn't fun to be an entertainer, so people will stop being entertainers, or just turn into the heal bots they are treated like. A macro has no feelings and can't have fun, after all. People that macro have no interest in the profession so will end up leaving. Those who really enjoy being entertainers are the ones who will stick with it.But they are the ones being driven away in the short term.
Entertainers are just expected to be everywhere these days. You illustrate how much they are taken for granted. Nobody expects a weaponsmith to always be available, or a tailor, or even a medic, but if theres not an entertainer in every cantina, the game is broken.
If the AFK problem isn't dealt with, entertainers might as well be replaced by NPCs and the class disolved.
Tiaga, I see our numbers dwindling simply because as a profession, there's not much for us to "do". You either love it for what it is, and how you can get together with other people and explore the possibilities, or you don't. Healing is minor. The healing we do is doable with 15 skillpoints, 100cr anda Slitherhorn/Dance-move. Trully not even a consideration.
I don't care what non entertainers think about Darniaq the Musician. If I'm a healing bot to them, so be it. I love it for what I can do with it. I like hanging around others who do to. But other's just don't get it. Which is fine. I can't quite figure out how nightly PvP against AT-STs and uber spiced/equipped/pet'd enemies can be fine over and over and over. To me that feels like Unreal Tournament at 1/10 the speed. To them, I must seem like some "**edit** RPer". To each their own.
Having just come from Coronet Cantina (which used to be bustling with entertainers and patrons, only a handfull were AFK), i was disgusted at what i saw. EVERY entertainer in a group of 15 was AFK macroing. I happened to be walking by when i overheard some patrons inside complaining about it, so i stepped inside to give them some REAL entertainment. It really breaks my heart to see what this profession has turned into.
That's why this thread is here......so, i support the no EXPwhileAFK. Set on an internal timer of 15 minutes. If you have to go to the can or use the phone, you run the risk of losing a couple minutes worth ofEXP (if you're macroing) but as soon as you get back to the 'board, all is well again. I've never used an AFKmarco toadvance as a Musician.
sweatyclimber wrote:
the simplist suggestion i can say to fix this is... when the afk flag goes up a /dump cmd is made however please fix the flag going up for no reason... i have this all the time and dunno why and please please get rid of the macrotainers
I agree but a /dump is not enough, /dump just ends the macro, do a /dump; /stopm; /stopd; instead or they just keep playing or dancing without flourishing, which is horrible to listen to.
And the idea of /dump being executed after /startm is very bad, just read this thread and you will understand why /dump after /startm would be a nightmare for alot of entertainers: http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=entertainer&message.id=119
I hope this AFK thing is solved soon, some of my customers also hate seeing them there