Musician Archive
Thread: From your Correspondent: inviting suggestions on AFK'ing
One thought that hasn't been brought up here, just for consideration.
I'm Master, but I still go afk and leave my character running on a macro. I don't do it for the xp, of course. I plaay because I add something to the band that, most times, wouldn't be there otherwise. I'm usually playing Omni Box, because I think even SW1 can be tolerated a little bit more if there is a drum beat behind it.
This is totally an asthetic reason, and not meaning to demean the profession, but I'd like to be able to do what I can to make the band in my cantina always sound good, even if I'm not around. Just a thought.
My answer to all AFKing is somewhat simplistic:
Turn off the /ui action toolBar command.
I personally do not have a problem with AFKers. They pay the some monthly fee I do, but choose to "enjoy" it differently. That's fine. 'Darniaq Kihoge the Musician' is defined by what he's doing at any given time, not what others have done before him.
But it is a contentious issue both on the forums and in the game. This rare alignment of opinions leads me to believe that, in this particular case, the command structure behind it must go. I know this will not prevent all AFK macroing. I've also been around too long to believe anything is going to stop AFKing.
However, removing this command will remove the ease of AFKing. What this will do is two fold:
- Force players to wonder if they should bother. Someone could go to Toys R Us or Radio Shack, pick up a Legomotion or Robotic arm and program it to tap keys at X intervals. They could also ha><or some l33t third party program to do it. But will they? Why? For 100 skill points dedicated to a profession they aren't interested in doing anything but defeating? Let them! They've got as much chance of holding onto MM and MD after they achieve it as I do of becoming a Bounty Hunter (as in, none).
- Force players to group. That's where it's at. If someone can AFK themselves to MM/MD in four weeks of soloing in the Coronet Cantina, they're going to do that. This is less "work" than getting into a band and dealing with other people. It's the person that considers this "work" that's least likely to retain their MM/MD title when they'd so much rather be doing something else.
In the end, I believe that there will be less advanced entertainers. But there will be a higher percentage of players trully into being an entertainer as players, more than just being the sum total of skills.
there is already an AFK timer in place and it has an option to be turned off. It has some valid uses like grabing a soda, going to the restroom, hiding fromdemanding customers for merchant types (I've gone out inexploration groups with crafters who set thier status 'AFK' while trooping around places like endor so they could actually play the game) so doing anything with the AFK system that is already in place will be a bit of a problem.
Create a second timer or a second routine that monitors the same timer with no option to turn it off.At 15 min of inactivity from the keyboard or mouse itissues a popup warning that has to be responded to.5 minutes later assuming no response it issues a /dump; /sit command. 15 min later it gives another popup requiring a response. If this second popup is again ignored for 5 min the character is logged out.
This resolves the AFK ent's clutttering up the cantinas. Also, it gets the unused connections disconnected from the server reducing bandwith and both client and server utilization issues.
This isn't using a new routine rather it is mostly copying something that is in place already in the game aside from the dialog boxes and creating a couple of hidden states.
The timing of all of this could be changed I just went with easy numbers but all total a 40min cycle doesn't seem unreasonable. Most of the minor stuff IRL can easilly be handled in that time and its the perpetual AFK bots that are really the issue not someone hitting the fridge to make a sandwich.
A couple issues i see with this type of a system. the popups need to be placed randomly and probably cannot accept command line input to acknoledge them (to avoid the most obvious workarounds). Further, a3rd party tool working with the SWG client would defeat this type of solution (and most any other solution as well I'm afraid). SWG is supposed to be good about thwarting 3rd party tools. However, I haven't gone out and tested it myself.
A second solution (somewhat less serious) is to create a second timer that after 15 min of no keyboard/mouse input the character gained a TEF to everyone. There have been numerous timesI just wanted to shoot someone with a really annoying macro. That would leave it up to the people in the room to decide the fate of the AFK ent. 
Personally, I've mastered musician 3 times, and did it everytime while AT the keyboard. I never afk. If I know I'm going to be away from my computer for extended periods of time, like to sleep or go to work, I log off. If I have to use the facilities, I let my group know and ask their opinion as to what I should do if I feel like I will be gone for more than thirty seconds. I play the game, and do musician, because I enjoy. I'm at the keyboard talking to people and performing with the same group of musicians every night. None of us AFK, and some new comer that might AFK is well aware of our opinions. Don't believe anything I say, I welcome you to come to my server, Sunrunner, and perform with me. My Name on the boards is the same as my character, I have nothing to hide. AFK performing is unfair to image designers, and every other class in the game. You think the XP "sucks" for musicians, try doing image design where you have to click 3 windows everytime and you have to have your customer accept your services. Should we let image designers perform while AFK now? How about we let Bounty Hunters PvP while AFK. That should make the game more interesting. Heck, while we are at it, let's Nerf all NPC's and Mobs in the game, we don't need them, everyone is AFK performing. The point is, AFK performing is an exploitation of the game mechanics for your personal gain. You don't like to level, so you AFK macro for XP. If you don't like to level, go back to EQ, I'm sure you can download a hack and make your character level 60 in 5 minutes. Saying the XP sucks or saying you hate to level is a weak arguement at most to support it. What inherent benefit to EVERYONE in the game is there if someone AFK-performs? At most, you could say healing. Well, if you are AFK-performing to heal people on Endor for example, then you shouldn't mind if you don't get XP for doing it. The point is, AFK-performing is unfair to everyone else in the game, and it's an exploit of the game mechanics. IT also makes this class look trashy and worthless.
----End Strongly Worded Rhetoric
Bandlero wrote:
I apologize for a dual-post, but yet again, I challenge NewJedi to post his or her opinions. I would like to know if our "leader" supports the exploitation of game mechanics for personal gains. And if he or she does, then I'd like to challenge him or her to step down as Correspondant.
Well, since NewJedi started this thread asking for ways to discourage afk (95% sure NJ's a he) I'd say he's at least heard the concerns of the musicians who don't like the practice, and is looking for suggestions to pass on to the devs. And he's probably keeping out of it to let everyone else get their ideas in. Based on what he'sdone in the past, I'm assuming he'll compile those and his own, and post the summary to be discussed.
I really don't think that it matters whether NewJedi is for, against, or indifferent to AFK macroing, provided that the opinion of the majority of musicians is what gets passed on to the devs.
Bandlero wrote:
I apologize for a dual-post, but yet again, I challenge NewJedi to post his or her opinions. I would like to know if our "leader" supports the exploitation of game mechanics for personal gains. And if he or she does, then I'd like to challenge him or her to step down as Correspondant.
Well, my job is not to lobby the devs to enact any personal agenda of mine; my job is to present your opinions -- those of all Musicians. Those are my instructions from the devs. Thus my first top-five list reflected your collective views, not my own; it contained one or two items that wereof little concern to me personally (e.g., /bandtip), but of great concern to people at that time. (Less so now, on that issue, it seems; hardly anyone listed /bandtip in my current "top issue" poll.) When people feel really strongly about an issue, my job is to express those strong feelings to the devs -- and I do. I'm a lawyer in RL; I'm used to making reasoned, compelling,and occasionallyimpassionedcases on behalf of others. That's what I do.
Equallyimportant, the devs have also instructed me to collect and synthesize information and ideas for them. They want to hear your ideas, but to save time, they want themsummarized in a convenient place; focusing ideas in one thread is one way to do this.Then I can sift through these ideas for them, or point them to this thread, or both. But the devs don't want me to present only one set of views; they want to hear the entire range of player opinions. So I try not to loudly proclaim my own views in order to encourage all voices to be heard. Don't worry, the devsare quite aware of your point of view.Why do you think Istarted the thread in the first place, if not to get ideas on how to encourage people to be at their keyboards?
Finally,if it makes you feel better, I'll tell you this: I never had any macro at all on my Musician until about three weeks ago, and I've been a Master Musician/Master Entertainer for two months.I have almost never run any kind of macro in this game, in fact. If I go AFK from my band, I either ask them to /bandflo me or I sit out. Ienjoy playing the game at my keyboard. And because social interaction is the essence of an MMORPG for me, it's important to me personally that others be at their keyboards. But even if I felt differently, I wouldnot talk to the devs about this any differently. Again: my job is to report and argue for your views, not to lobby for my own.
sciguyCO wrote:
Bandlero wrote:
I apologize for a dual-post, but yet again, I challenge NewJedi to post his or her opinions. I would like to know if our "leader" supports the exploitation of game mechanics for personal gains. And if he or she does, then I'd like to challenge him or her to step down as Correspondant.
Well, since NewJedi started this thread asking for ways to discourage afk (95% sure NJ's a he) I'd say he's at least heard the concerns of the musicians who don't like the practice, and is looking for suggestions to pass on to the devs. And he's probably keeping out of it to let everyone else get their ideas in. Based on what he'sdone in the past, I'm assuming he'll compile those and his own, and post the summary to be discussed.
I really don't think that it matters whether NewJedi is for, against, or indifferent to AFK macroing, provided that the opinion of the majority of musicians is what gets passed on to the devs.
Heh, that sums it up well -- better than I did in my own reply to Bandlero. And yes, I'm a he.
It takes 2 seconds to turn off the auto afk setting in your options menu.
Turn off auto afk, hit macro, walk away and your char will never go into afk mode.
I nerfed your ideas =(
I have two comments about the people AFKing, and possibly one solution to offer. There are two kinds, the quiet practicing musician AFK'r, and the noisemachine/landgrabbing AFK'r. Personally, life does present itself a challenge, and the tools in the game make it possible to do all these wonderful automated things that create performance sets that are real crowd pleasers.
I like the tools, they are great and should remain. In the beginning, we'll call it pre-FCS (I guess we're still in that phase, but its closing rapidly), people had to do all this time-investment to become Master Musician. Some chose to use the automation, some chose the manual-personal-interaction method. Personally, I was probably Bria's first all-manual-personal-interaction Master Musician, but in the statistics of things, I was third. But historical references aside, we're getting to the point where all the real estate in cantinas will be occupied by complete robo-band. Might as well get droids to do this profession if this continues. What the AFK people need, is their own place place to practice music, the street. There are marvelous hooks in the game to eject people from buildings, why not impliment them in sets. Every fifteen minutes, the band in the cantina must check their set, or change their song, or restart their song. If the acknowledgement is not sent, eject them to the street. Yes, they get music experience, but it removes them from the performance venue from established cantinas that real performers want to register and perform in. I'm not saying this should happen in private player-owned buildings set up as cantinas, just the established cities and outposts (uhoh, eject into the wilds from an outpost.. hmm. could nature get them?)
Its the healing that makes people come to these places. Perhaps I'll have a clear spot to play and entertain in.
As consolation, perhaps a zone in the back of the cantina could be a no-eject zone for the robo-band to perform.
Not sure how much of a reality this can be made to happen, but its the only comprimise I can see to get the long-term non-interactive people to a quiet spot to practice and leave prime real-estate for gamers to interact. Going to Endor and having to compete with Fred the Dancing Automaton just isn't condusive to finding bus-fare home.
Weibacca
Master Musician and Entertainer
Kaadara, Naboo, Bria
Visit Scenic Kaadara. We have a larger suburb than Theed.
It takes 2 seconds to turn off the auto afk setting in your options menu.
Turn off auto afk, hit macro, walk away and your char will never go into afk mode.
I nerfed your ideas =(
To Quote my own post: "The AKF-Flag should not be optionally and kick in after 10 minutes."
It takes about 2 seconds of developer time, to take out that checkbox and disable the combobox containing the times. ( It then takes two weeks of testing making sure it works as intended, but that's ok as long as we start sometime... )
You probably nerfed your reading ability when you read too many threads here 
I am a Master Musician who hates going into most of the cantinas nowadays. The AFK entertainers have very nearly ruined its enjoyment. Unless a group of my fellow Masters and close friends arealso thereI would rather play just about anywhere else. I have posted this idea several times before, but I will state my opinion again here...
I know this is a touchy subject but how about we compromise...
I personally do not believe in AFK macroing, but macros themselves are quite useful. I am a HORRIBLY slow typer... so I run (up to) a 16 flourish macro while I play my instrument. This leaves me free to pick at the keys and try to greet or respond to people. When I notice that it has ended I may manually flourish for a while, or startanother one while I socialize.So macros are a wonderful addition when they are not abused.
I also do not think that AFK entertainers running macros should receive XP or tips.They should at best receive them at a substantially reduced rate.
To make this work, the"penalty" for being AFKcould possibly begin after being AFK for 5, 10 or 15 minutes, which, with a30 minute AFK timer would still give the entertainer up to45 minutes before it would reduce or stop their advancement.
To do this the option the toggle auto AFK would have to be removed, but you could still set the length of time before you are displayed as AFK (up to the 30 minutes already allowed).
This would still give more than a fair amount of time to people who have to grab a drink, use the facilities...etc... while making it less advantageous to people who log on and go to work or school and leave their entertainer grinding away and annoying others.
Just an idea... what do you think?