Musician Archive
Thread: JustG speaks about AFK macros
DasdeThwar wrote:I guess you misunderstood or simply took my comment too much to heart!!! I was simply stating that there's those who ramble on and on about how bad AFKing is and at the same time say "I never do that", which I find in most instances false!!! Point being that personally what I've seen is that a majority of those that are opposing AFKing do it themselves....
Care to back that claim? I challenge you to find any instance of me being an AFK entertainer. I haven't even used a macro longer than a few seconds since 0040 entertainer. And I've mastered dancer, musician and entertainer since, all ATK, all without even using a macro most the time.
Are you going to call me a liar now? In fact, I challenge you to prove that point with anyone. Everyone I know of that has said they have never been AFK really means it.
LOL wow......everyone has their opinions, sorry I can't exactly prove it since I'm in Iraq right now.....it's just simple facts from what I had seen both times I had previously mastered Musician. I saw people who claimed they didn't AFK and had hard feelings against it, do it.......plain and simple!!!
DasdeThwar wrote:
LOL wow......everyone has their opinions, sorry I can't exactly prove it since I'm in Iraq right now.....it's just simple facts from what I had seen both times I had previously mastered Musician. I saw people who claimed they didn't AFK and had hard feelings against it, do it.......plain and simple!!!
I have to echo Tiaga's statement. You are the one who came on here spouting your "opinions" as fact, being rude and snide and then turn around and try to make it seem as if we are the ones being ridiculous. Sorry, that doesn't fly. You called anyone who claimed to have never ARKed a "liar". You can't back down from that now. You can apologize for the way you stated it, you can back up your claim with hard, verifiable fact, you can even admit youwere wrong to make thatstatement- but you can'tposture as though your "opinion" has any more weight than anyone else's here or that by disagreeing with you and calling you to task for it we are being overly sensitive as you seem to be inferring.
My cousin was in Iraq for a year. He never used that as an excuse to make claims he couldn't back up or be rude.
Darkebie wrote:
I wonder how many people will hate musicians, dancers, or at least the profession if they make it non-afk able or something...
Sorry if I offended anyone and I appreciate the kind comment by kirah, but I still stand by two things...........1) I still don't see how AFKers impact our profession sooooo much that they need to be rid of. From my own in-game experience I have yet to see how AFKers negatively impact our glorious profession nor have I seen any other entertainers in-game who I've run into complain, complain to the fact that they need to be wiped out. I have witnessed times where AFKers did benefit our profession in which a lonely AFKer happened to be out in the middle of nowhere to heal my mind. Remember that the AFKers do pay the same amount we do to play the game. If the AFKers aren't doing anything wrong and/or against the EULA, then I say let them keep doing it if that's what they pay their monthly fee for. Yes, I have winessed and seen the same people who complain and oppose AFKers do it themselves and not just for a potty break or to grab some grub. 2) I don't understand why it's so easy to put up a wall or go agianst AFKers. I'm not siding with either side because I do both, I play the game the way I find fit and fun because that's what I pay for; however there's two sides to every story so we all should expect to find critics on both sides. I only find AFKing wrong if there's exploiting involved, an illegal third party program, or if it's so drastic to a profession that it needs to find an end..............I have yet to see adequate proof that AFKers hinder our profession to the ground!!! Only problem I have ever had is the constant yells in the macro, mostly when a macro goes "bad" and the player doesn't know it......but /ignore fixes that.
Again, I'm sorry if I offended anyone and perhaps I should of stated in my first post........"there are a few of those who oppose AFKing that do it themselves" instead of what I had mentioned.........
ps---Iraq is hell and I can't wait to get back to my Ommni and Nal!!!
DasdeThwar wrote:
Sorry if I offended anyone and I appreciate the kind comment by kirah, but I still stand by two things...........1) I still don't see how AFKers impact our profession sooooo much that they need to be rid of. From my own in-game experience I have yet to see how AFKers negatively impact our glorious profession nor have I seen any other entertainers in-game who I've run into complain, complain to the fact that they need to be wiped out. I have witnessed times where AFKers did benefit our profession in which a lonely AFKer happened to be out in the middle of nowhere to heal my mind. Remember that the AFKers do pay the same amount we do to play the game. If the AFKers aren't doing anything wrong and/or against the EULA, then I say let them keep doing it if that's what they pay their monthly fee for. Yes, I have winessed and seen the same people who complain and oppose AFKers do it themselves and not just for a potty break or to grab some grub. 2) I don't understand why it's so easy to put up a wall or go agianst AFKers. I'm not siding with either side because I do both, I play the game the way I find fit and fun because that's what I pay for; however there's two sides to every story so we all should expect to find critics on both sides. I only find AFKing wrong if there's exploiting involved, an illegal third party program, or if it's so drastic to a profession that it needs to find an end..............I have yet to see adequate proof that AFKers hinder our profession to the ground!!! Only problem I have ever had is the constant yells in the macro, mostly when a macro goes "bad" and the player doesn't know it......but /ignore fixes that.
Again, I'm sorry if I offended anyone and perhaps I should of stated in my first post........"there are a few of those who oppose AFKing that do it themselves" instead of what I had mentioned.........
ps---Iraq is hell and I can't wait to get back to my Ommni and Nal!!!
Unattended play isexploitive. Why? It influences the game world in a way that cannot be duplicated by a player playing in the way the developers intended. You cannot play in a way that duplicates AFK play, because no player can be expected to perform 24 hours a day, 7 days a week with no need nor desire to be tipped and no resolve to walk away if abused. It defies the bounds of playability, and the ONLY reason the system sustains this radical dispensing of service is that the macro system can self repeat.
Simply put, while every other service requires some modicum of in game playereffort to sustain, be it in power, maitenance, or actual interaction with the program, entertainment services are the only services that can be provided at the same level as a live player, but be done without any player effort whatsoever. Its like having a factory that keeps pumping outfull strength enhancement packs for free, coupled with a doctor to dole out these free enhancement packs to anyone and everyone that comes in contact with it 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Now tell me: when faced with that kind of unfair leverage, how is someone who actually has constraints placed upon them in terms of requiring enjoyment, sleep, interaction, and credits supposed to compete on a level footing? They can't. Life gets in the way.
Funny how I used to get a lot of group buff requests from large PAs, and not only have a lot of fun with them, but get tipped handsomely. Those days are gone.The few remainingcustomers that I have had recentlyare PA less and casual players today, because all the big PAs have self repeating master level buffbots that mule lots for a guild. It may soon get to the point that dancers and musicians will be antiquated relics who may be brought out for the occasional wedding or something. If the benchmark is free, master level service whenever one wants it, then live players will not be able to make the standard.
But this standard that the combat community expects of us is unreasonable. If the demands of any other class are to give away everything they can give for free to anyone and everyone that passes by 24 hours a day, seven days a week, nobody would offer these services. Nor does $15 a month entitle one to place something that has such a profound effect on the game environment. You say its play. I say its impossible to play a buffbot. Because no player can be awake 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and have no desire to do anything but be available to utilize. What you do is "not-play" an entertainer, because non-players have as much of an effect, if not more so, than players in this so-called "player driven economy." You find it in the skilltape caves. You find it in the field sampling. nd you find it in the cantinas. Non-players that are doing things that players can do more efficiently simply because they have the godlike ability to remove themselves from the constraints of playability.
However, even though it is exploitive, the difference between this exploit and others is that SOE has not yet fixed it. Yes, SOE's holocron gives a player the license to do certain actions in an unattended way, but NOWHERE has any developer ever said that it was their intent to have characters act unattended in such a systematic and complete way as is found in most entertainers today.
So answer me this, its a simple question: If suddenly you had to attend to your alt in order to provide the same free, available, 24/7 service you do as an act of goodwill, would you do it?
.- Less Interaction Between Players
In a typical cantina group these days in the major cities like Coronet and Theed, it is probably safe to say that at least half of the group is not at their keyboard. This gets worse later into the night. With so many people not even playing, there are less people to interact with and talk to. For the person that walks into the cantina, there aren't as many people to interact with. For the ATK Entertainer in the group, there are also less people to talk to and interact with in group chat. It can be very strange (and discouraging) to be in a full group in the cantina, and not have anyone talking in the group channel.
Lack of live people to interact with brings about other problems:
- No One Available to Buff. On many occasions, I have seen people come into a cantina looking for a buff, only to find the 3-4 Master Musicians and/or Master Dancers AFK and unresponsive. Often, these people end up yelling and shouting constantly, just begging for someone to buff them. Often, I see these people leave in disgust.
- No One Available to Train Fellow Group Members. Sometimes, I have seen where Entertainers ask for training within a group, or within the entire cantina for someone to train them in their next skills. Many times, there are about 15-20 people standing right next to them that could train them, but there is no response. They are all AFK. Often, I have had to join a group (or in some instances, a person would have to leave their group if the group leader is AFK), just so I could train people, even though there are so many people within the group that could do it if they were actually there to respond.
- Less Spontaneous Performances. When the majority of entertainers were actually at their keyboard, there were many times when someone would want to try a new song, or perhaps try a certain combination of instruments with a particular song, or even just wanted to hear what a particular favorite sounded like with a full band. It's not as easy to accomplish this anymore within the regular cantina band. You can't have a lot of people timing their lighting effects with a particular bandflourish. You can't experiment with having a everyone pause playing simultanously using the /pause command. You can't spontaneously get together with your fellow dancers and decide to color coordinate clothing while you all dance poplock in a can-can line, or all dance Exotic 3 in a diamond formation for a hula while taking turns bandflourishing. Sure, you could always get together with a group of fellow Entertainer/Musician/Dancer friends and do this, but shouldn't these types of experiences be what our professions are all about, and thus experienced by the common cantina group, and not just a certain circle of Entertainers? These are some of the experiences that actually make our professions more fun to play. It's hard to experience this when you are AFK.
- AFK Entertainers Breed More AFK Entertainers. Have you ever met a Novice Entertainer who is actually a player new to the game, and there first experience is to be in a cantina full of AFK people? I did. I met a Twi'lek Novice Entertainer in Coronet once. She was still in her starter clothing with Slitherhorn in hand. When I spoke with her, I could tell that she was new to playing by the kinds of things she asked (where can I buy clothes?, how do I flourish?, how do I speak in group chat?). I left the cantina for a while to do some things, and returned later to find her AFK, and she remained that way for a few hours, standing there, playing her Slitherhorn, not flourishing, and not responding
. Either she lost interest, or she decided that that was how things were supposed to be. If she lost interest, maybe it's because she just didn't find it fun. Would having more of her fellow group members ATK have helped, with more people to interact with, and possibly more spontaneous performing, to make things more interesting? Maybe. Maybe not. But it couldn't have hurt.
- Inability to Join/Rejoin Groups Due to AFK Group Leaders
Yes. This problem is specific to those times when the group leader goes AFK for long periods of time, which doesn't always happen. This can be dealt with by choosing a leader who is willing to not go AFK. I'm sure many have been in a situation where they come into a cantina and find a group that is not yet full, but cannot get into the group because the leader is AFK. There are also times when members are unwilling to leave a group, because they know they will have a hard time rejoining the group, again because the leader isn't there.
- Increased Lag
With more people in the cantina, the majority of them AFK, there is of course the additional lag. I know many people who avoid Coronet as much as possible because they don't like the lag there. Other than the Spaceport, the absolute worst place to be in Coronet is in the Cantina, where it's so packed people are performing right at the front door as soon as you walk in. You can feel your computer slowing down even as you approach the cantina on the outside, even before you go in! More AFK entertainers mean more 'bodies' in the cantina simultanously throughout the day, which means more lag.
Related to this, is the spamming that a lot of people do. "Please, heal me! Please watch me! Help me, I am almost done with this profession! Please invite me, I will autojoin your group!" Of course, people spam even when they are ATK, and ignoring people is always an option. But at least you can ask a live player to stop, and you may not need to ignore them then
- Alternate Character/Second Account Entertainers Decrease Opportunities For Other Entertainers
- It seems that a fair amount of people have additional accounts with alternate characters that are Entertainers on the same server as their regular character. Often, these charcters are made with the goal of using them to heal or buff their main characters, or their friends or fellow guildmates in remote areas, or fellow citizens of the city they live in. Some of them are created so that their city can have a cantina, or perhaps a theater, and often, they are set up AFK there, all the time, for this purpose.
If there is an AFK person buffing people on a remote city or planet all the time, there is less incentive for other Entertainers to go there (especially to pay for a round trip shuttle ticket) if they are not needed or wanted. A cantina or theater owned by an AFK Entertainer, is one less opportunity for someone who enjoys the profession, and would like to own one, and would enjoy doing so, to be able to. Instead, someone who may not enjoy being an Entertainer at all is runs the place, which seems unfair to that player. If the original intent was that anyone could 'make a living' in their chosen profession, then less opportunities means less potential for income. Yes, a monthly fee is being paid for this character/account to exist, but is it fair to give people who have the luxury to pay for more than one account the advantage over those that do not? The advantage is given to the person who can afford it. Economics in the real world end up affecting the economy within the game.An AFK Entertainer does not benefit our profession, as only the people that watch or listen to them get anything out of it. Even if the AFK Entertainer is tipped, it's only a benefit to that one character, not the profession as a whole.
All of the above has been running around in my head for quite some time while I sorted them all out lol, so hopefully I've managed to express my opinions without being too confusing!
