Musician Archive
Thread: AFK'ers the only 'Bad Ents'?
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Beery
Tue Jul 13, 2004 8:42 am
#27
"talking about prerequisites is pointless, that only works in terms of game mechanics,"
No. I'm talking about prerequisites in terms of the mind of the potential tipper. If he gets it into his head that performers should only be tipped if they talk to him, that's what he'll base his tips on. The problem is, a lot of performers think this way too - they advocate for tipping guides that favour personalized performances and social interaction over art ofperformance and quickness of heal.
As I see it, we have two jobs in this game: firstly, to heal our customers' wounds and to buff them. This is our practical application within the game community. Secondly, we can adjust our flourishes within a song or dance, and we can craft a performance from the tools at our disposal. This is the artistic part of our profession. Any social aspect is irrelevant to the profession we have chosen. Why is it irrelevant? Becauseour profession gives us no better tools to use the social aspect than any other profession has. To say that entertainertips should be primarily (or even equally)based on social interaction is wrong, because EVERYONE in the game can interact socially. If we get tips for talking to players, why shouldn't crafters get tips for talking to their customers? Why shouldn't combat players get tips from us for talking to us?
"I prefer to get a cantina-wide piece of banter going (because I don't do it for the tips, they just... happen)."
I do exactly the same thing. But this should happen naturally. I have been criticised on these forums for stating categorically that Iwill not speak to customers in order to get tips. I only speak to them if it seems natural to do so. For some entertainers (and many other players), that unwillingness to play-actmeans I'm not doing my job. This is the problem I have with the idea that entertainers"must" talk to their audience in order to deserve a bigger tip. If I'm forcing myself to talk to my clients as a way to increase my tips, I'm not interacting with them socially - not in any real way. What I'm doing is feeding them an act - selling them my mind, just as a prostitute sells his/her body. I am, as you say, metaphorically wh0ring myself out to them.
Kreistor
Tue Jul 13, 2004 8:46 am
#28
Beery wrote:
All belly dancers, ballroom dancers, club dancers and competetive dancers that I've ever seen have had a large audience. Belly dancers come closest to performing for individuals, in that the groups watching them are usually small, but I've never seen a belly dance that didn't have at least 5 or 6 audience members, and usually the dancer doesn't interact on a personal levelto the same extent thatsome expect me to do in the game. Competitive and ballroom dancing often has a huge audience. All club dancers that I've seen perform impersonallyfor small to largeaudiences. The fact that I haven't seen them perform for individuals is by no means conclusive, but as a disinterested observer with a good few years and agood many experiencesunder my beltI have seen my fair share.
But anyway, I think we're getting away from the point I was trying to make.My point is that those who don't like to perform a personal dance for a customer should not be regarded as any less of an entertainer than those who do enjoy such personal contact. The problem is that there aremany playerswho thinkan impersonal performing style is lessvaluable than a personal one. The worth of any performance is surelyin its art (and in the case of the game, in its healingefficiency), not in its social aspect. Heck, I don't need to play an instrument or dance in order to socialize - I can do that without healing, but I would not deserve tips if all I did was talk to the customers. If I could expect a tip for that, then surely I'd deserve a tip for talking to group members while on a hunt, or for speaking to my fellow musicians in the cantina. There's a reason why healing and XP gain is tied to the performance, and that is because the performance is what's important. Greeting, talking, and interacting with customers is a part ofsome peoples' favoured performingstyle, but it should not bethe soleprerequisite for getting paid.
Totally agree, performing can take the form of anything at all. Whatever you find most comfortable is the way you should perform. That doesn't rule out the fact that some ways are better than others of course. I'm not stating which are better than which, just that this seems to be the case.
And because I'm stubborn: 
Belly dancing: there are some restaurants that have this. Yes, everyone is watching, but they will go up to tables and dance for that small group, even focusing on one person when they dance.
Ballroom dancers: I didn't specifically mean competitive, I meant a ballroom dancer will dance with and for their partner. But even in competition, even though there's an audience, the dancers' focus is the judges. It's a directed dance.
Club dancing: By this I mean just going to a club and dancing. You're generally only dancing for yourself, unless you're trying to attract someone's eye. 
*ahemKirahahem*
Sorry, I was pretty unspecific when I mentioned these dances, so I hope the clarification helps.
The long and the short of all this mess is that I agree with Beery! lol
Beery
Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:34 am
#29
"I certainly resent any accusation that the purpose behind my talking is to coerce them into this [tipping]."
I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is thatSOME entertainers do this, and some seem to think that I should do it even though it goes against every instinct I have. This encourages players like meto usea false version of social play - one in which'putting on the (false)charm'is used asa valid tool to get tips.
Some would say that I was a poorer entertainer because Ifollow mynatural inclinations to make an art ofmy performance,instead ofmaking an art of my social interactions. Some playerseven write 'how to get tips'guideswhich urge people to place more emphasis on socialinteraction than they do on the performance they're giving. This attitude is prevalentamong customers too- many players simply will not tip if entertainers don't engage them in discussion. They demand one thing from entertainers - talk -and it doesn't matter whether the conversation is forced or not. They don't reward a well-crafted tune, or a good dance, nor do they care whether heals come fast or slow. This is wrong. In my opinion it encourages lazy play, in that there is no incentive for musicians to learn their craft. A player can suck at putting flourishes together, andhe can be so lazy that hecan't be bothered to spend time getting more than the basic Slitherhorn and the lowest song, but if he's a social butterfly, the conventional wisdom is thatheDESERVES tomake a packet as an entertainer.
The two cantina professions are the only professions whereby a player can advance in terms of monetary gain without having a single clue as to how to actually play the gamewell.The idea that it's reasonable thata completelylazy andineptmusician (in terms of the game mechanics)should deserve tomake goodmoney in thisprofession isthe same as saying that a noviceBounty Hunter with good communications skillsshould be able to seek out and kill Jedi better than a Master Bounty Hunter. It's ridiculous. It makes a mockery of the game mechanics, turning them from what they should be - a necessary tool to advancement - into an irrelevancy. In short, it doesn't matter how well I use the entertainer skills or the tools of my profession. If I don't talk to customers I'm not going to get paid. I don't see that as right.
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