Musician Archive

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Beery wrote:

Exactly. I don't know where this idea that we should be waiters/Maitre 'Ds/comedians/etc.comes from. Nor do I understand why we should behave more like a Mexican Restaurant table band or a topless lapdancer than like a band that sets up their equipment to do agig in a bar. Ibecame a musician toplay music and tocreate artistic musicalarrangements. I didn't sign up to be a psychiatrist, a lapdanceror a stand-up comic.

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Why is it that someone that wants to be entertaining by chatting is a 'lapdancer'?? That to me is very insulting. But then, we've had that discussion before, haven't we?

When we entertain our customers, we are the hosts of the place where we dance and play our music. If you feel that this doesn't include talking with them, then that's fine. Don't talk. But don't belittle the people that do, and do it successfully. And especially don't start calling us topless dancers.

I really shouldn't be surprised of this kind of comment from you of course, but there you have it.

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Beery wrote: "I do not se why chatting to the combatants should be end all be all of entertainers... Chatting to the combaters we are healing, makes us socialises, not entertainers. Putting chains of flourishes together in series to create songs that sounds good, coordinating several musicians with band flourishes and matching the outfits of the hole group, are part of entertaining."

Exactly. I don't know where this idea that we should be waiters/Maitre 'Ds/comedians/etc. comes from. Nor do I understand why we should behave more like a Mexican Restaurant table band or a topless lapdancer than like a band that sets up their equipment to do a gig in a bar. I became a musician to play music and to create artistic musical arrangements. I didn't sign up to be a psychiatrist, a lapdancer or a stand-up comic.

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Well let’s take a look at the movies... right now we get treated about how Oola gets treated... Slaves. What kind of entertainer was she in the movies... I would have to put her at more of the topless dancer end of Entertainment...

We go look at Sy Snootles and the Max Rebo Band and I would have to put them into the range of Musicians playing at a seedy bar. Where you are expected to by the bar owner... ,and if you really want any money and to not get into any trouble with anyone, where you are expected to be part maitre'd/comic/lounge singer.

Most "entertainers" make their money off of being entertaining. Not because they can pick from flourish 1-8 on song 1-10. I did piano competitions for 8 years. Classical music. And you know what still gets you 1st place over 2nd every time... it's the smile to the judges. It's the smile to the audience. Putting your heart and soul into the music so that they can feel it. It's being Entertaining.(well that and hitting the technical part of the song as well but if you and someone else do the same the 1st place goes to the more entertaining one.)

Anyways... Ohh yes... Every day for hours on end in a cantina ... this game isn't set up for you to be able to do artistic musical arrangements day after day hour upon hour. Once a week maybe even a couple times a week having set gigs/performances rocks. And can really help to get that out of your system. But I'm sorry it's just not something that can be done every day. I would love it if we could do something like that. But it is just one of those things that is very very hard to put your soul into it and have it come across to those listening or watching. mainly as we are all using the same pre-recorded flourishes ,sounds, songs. I think a huge part of what we are supposed to do/meant for by the devs was to help those people that might resent having to come there in the first place. Or those that would other wise just tab out and read the forums... I think we are supposed to help them forget those things. It's harder now to do that then ever before. As no one honestly expects you to do anything except "Putting chains of flourishes together in series to create songs that sounds good" and they have heard it hundreds of times already.

I can't tell you how many times I've tried to be "entertaining" only to then stop as I figure they are just the, let me get this done and let me get out of here quick type, and then they show up and go "sorry I was afk".

Great we now have the perfect prof. AFK non-entertainers and their AFK patrons...(you can just ignore me as I should have gone to sleep hours ago and I'm just ramblin on now...)

Message Edited by DarkY0da on 07-09-2004 07:30 AM

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DarkY0da wrote:
[...]

Anyways... Ohh yes... Every day for hours on end in a cantina ... this game isn't set up for you to be able to do artistic musical arrangements day after day hour upon hour. Once a week maybe even a couple times a week having set gigs/performances rocks. And can really help to get that out of your system. But I'm sorry it's just not something that can be done every day. I would love it if we could do something like that. But it is just one of those things that is very very hard to put your soul into it and have it come across to those listening or watching. mainly as we are all using the same pre-recorded flourishes ,sounds, songs. ...

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When the game first came out, what enticed me to even try it was the idea that I could entertain. I love music and dancing and so spent probably way too many hours a day working on these skills. At the start there weren't any AFK entertainers, but there were still those who just were just "grinding" away. What I felt my role as an entertainer was first to put on a good show for the patrons. I would play a variety of songs, worked on making macroed flourish songs tailered to each song I played. Once I got my techniques I started using those. I remember one patron that I had that came in just so that he could see the "disco ball."

My second role was to make them want to sit down and relax and find some sort of peace in the galactic war. This created a lot of role play for me as I attempted to kick out those who were fighting (sometimes meaning that I would stop playing until the fight was taken back outside. That would normaly get the patrons to start getting involved in getting the fight to go outside). Because I was in a Cantina, I did feel like I should help provide a pleasant atmosphere to the patrons and so I always welcomed those who came in and would visit with them. Most of my oldest friends are also my oldest patrons. I wrote down people's names, what they liked talking about, and their favorite song. If possible, I would play the patron's favorite song for them when they came in. I also recall a lot of patrons that I would try to get them to /dance at least and they would end up taking up entertainer for the night and having fun. One of my favorite nights we ended up witha party going with one creature handler who took up entertainer and got his rabbits to dance with him. I loved the fact that people who were normally combat driven, kept their entertainer as long as they could so that they could come jam Star Wars 1 with me (especially after I got that wonderful skill to play mandoviol). It was fun. Coming into a cantina should be fun.

The third role was as an informant. Because I wrote things down, I knew people of all professions of life, knew things they were looking for, and learned about different worlds even though I hardly ever left the cantina. Many people started coming to me and asking for this information that I had.

My final role was as a mind and bf healer. This is just a nice side effect of what our profession does. It is sad to see now that people seem to view this as their main role now along with buffing people. Where people used to come in, sit down and actually relax some before going back to combat and facing war we now have people who come in trying to find a buff quick and run back out fast. Due to buffs and this hurry, more and more people are only listening to two songs. Star Wars 1 of the hologrinders and Virtuoso of the buff bots. I play almost all the time when waiting for a shuttle at the spaceport. I was playing Jazz and someone asked me what that song was...they had never heard it. Several times this happened to me in one day with different songs. Back when I started out my patrons knew all the songs and could request them by names.

Entertainers come in all forms and entertain in different ways. If you get the patrons to pause just a moment longer from their fight, whether by talking or use of skills to put on a good show, then you are being a good entertainer. Since there is a GCW going on, there has to be some peace to be found somewhere.

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Beery wrote:

"Why is it that someone that wants to be entertaining by chatting is a 'lapdancer'?? That to me is very insulting..."

That wasn't my point. Some folks insist that it's important to give the customer personal service, like a lapdancer does. Anyway, in my cantina on Starsider we have an entertainer who offers lapdances every night. Yes, lapdances. Apparently some entertainers think that they are not much more than prostitutes.

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Maybe the use of a term that isn't so degrading might be a better choice. There are many forms of entertainment, yes, that includes singing and dancing, that involve an audience. A pantamime for instance. Some musical groups will also actually, between songs and even during songs, get out into the audience and invovle them, chat with them. "Hi, what's your name?" "You're here on your anniversary? A round of applause for the happy couple!"

Believe me, I know all too well that lapdances and worse are offered in game, but just because I like to perform for an individual doesn't make me like a lapdancer. It just makes me an entertainer.

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Beery wrote:

"just because I like to perform for an individual doesn't make me like a lapdancer."

You both give personal dances. In that way you are similar to a lapdancer. Plus, the only personal dances I know of in real life are performed in strip clubs. That's all I was saying. I never said you were a lapdancer. I just pointed out the similarities and noted thatthey play into an unfortunate (and unfair)stereotype that some players have about entertainers.

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Then I'd say you need to do some research:

Belly dancers, ballroom dancers, dancing at clubs, any kind of dancing at a competition are all examples of dancing for individuals. And none of them express the conetation that you're trying to express.

And these are just off the top of my head.

Beyond this though, I totally agree that we at least have the option of performing in whatever way we choose. Normally I dance with a few fellow dancers for whatever audience comes in, which is what you describe. If I have to buff, that becomes a personal dance. Musicians are the same. Either they dance for the masses like at the great Cantina Crawls or they seranade a couple of people and give them buffs.

Nice to know we've got options

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Beery wrote:

Heck, I don't need to play an instrument or dance in order to socialize - I can do that without healing, but I would not deserve tips if all I did was talk to the customers. If I could expect a tip for that, then surely I'd deserve a tip for talking to group members while on a hunt, or for speaking to my fellow musicians in the cantina. There's a reason why healing and XP gain is tied to the performance, and that is because the performance is what's important. Greeting, talking, and interacting with customers is a part ofsome peoples' favoured performingstyle, but it should not bethe soleprerequisite for getting paid.

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Not the sole prerequisite, but forming a connection will increase the likelihood of it - talking about prerequisites is pointless, that only works in terms of game mechanics, but tipping is something that happens outside of that. Playing music skillfully (to the extent that the game allows) may get you a tip, just talking to people certainly won't, but the two combined make it far, far more likely. Whether or not this is fair or right is irrelevant - it's human nature to respond to a combination of talent and attention in this way.

The fact is, 90% of the people who go into cantinas will be bloody philistines who don't have the artistic understanding to appreciate the skillfull combination of flourishes you've put together. And the nature of Mind/BF healing means they basically consider the time to be just standing around (note: I'm being critical of them, not you here!) But people will always respond to attention. I know that sounds awful, like you have to wh0re yourself (metaphorically!) to members of the audience, but it doesn't need to be like that... I prefer to get a cantina-wide piece of banter going (because I don't do it for the tips, they just... happen).

Let me get one thing absolutely striaght - I have the upmost respect for your style of entertaining and yes, it probably makes you a more 'pure' musician than I, I'm just kinda giving my observation on the way things are when it comes to the audience's reactions.

Message Edited by Kanubis on 07-13-2004 04:00 PM