Musician Archive
Thread: CU Update Entertainers
Fragpuppie
Sat Mar 19, 2005 1:16 pm
#27
I don't know what upsets me more:
The marginalization of our profession and actually any non-combat profession.
/aside I wonder how crafters are going to tend their harvestors when they only have 1000 health and mobs are balanced to need to be handled by groups.
OR
That they are trying to pass off the new songs and dances as compensation for what is being removed from our game.
Do they think we are that dumb??
I can add 2 plus 2 and get 4. The songs are on TC......the CURB is NOT. The songs are separate!!!
In this update, they have completely killed the dabbler. If a person wants to fight (and in this system that's all there really is) then they NEED to double master to be effective. If a person actually enjoys the crafting/entertaining game....then they better not ever try to leave a peaceful town. Good luck in Mos Eisley or any town with tons of thugs. I'll even have trouble flying to my house.
We'll see when this goes live......in what....50 days
Fragpuppie Uber
Master Entertainer, Master Musician
Founding Member - Frag's Puppies
President and CEO - Fragpuppie Enterprises and Uber Instruments
Coronet, Corellia, Chilastra
Master Entertainer, Master Musician
Founding Member - Frag's Puppies
President and CEO - Fragpuppie Enterprises and Uber Instruments
Coronet, Corellia, Chilastra
DarkY0da
Sat Mar 19, 2005 2:46 pm
#28
I think people are a little confused...
We will ONLY heal BF. Until they get around to "creating" minor combat related buffs.
We no longer buff ANYTHING.
that's it. We will now be a 99% fluff class. And with the recent fixes and additions our Fluff part works extremely well when compared to a lot of other aspects of these game.
There is now no longer a need from our part for the Devs to fix AFK.(we might very well want it because we will still have AFK jedi grinders) but there is no longer a "need" for it.
We are being removed from pre-combat until they get around to creating minor combat related buffs. Which I think they might very well NOT do as then we again become "needed" pre-combat. And will give rise to bots again.
We will ONLY heal BF. Until they get around to "creating" minor combat related buffs.
We no longer buff ANYTHING.
that's it. We will now be a 99% fluff class. And with the recent fixes and additions our Fluff part works extremely well when compared to a lot of other aspects of these game.
There is now no longer a need from our part for the Devs to fix AFK.(we might very well want it because we will still have AFK jedi grinders) but there is no longer a "need" for it.
We are being removed from pre-combat until they get around to creating minor combat related buffs. Which I think they might very well NOT do as then we again become "needed" pre-combat. And will give rise to bots again.
OrionsByte
Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:59 pm
#29
Ororo wrote:
Entertainers now have 100% no place in the Star Wars universe. Battle Fatigue was a mental wound type; they've said health wounds will be the only surviving type and ALL OTHERS are being eliminated. Whatever else BF was it is NOT a health wound. All buffs but health buffs are gone.
I think you're reading between lines and not reading the lines that specifically address this. They've already stated that BF will remain in the game. Also, if you read the document again, you'll notice that there are several times that they say that there are certain things that will be affected by buffs, i.e.:
"The wind-up phase is the time from when the player begins a special move to when the move takes effect. During this time, there will be a UI element, visible particle effects (or animation), and sound effects to indicate the player has initiated an action. The length of the wind-up time is determined by the ability used, the character's advancement level and associated buffs on the character."
"The cool-down phase is the time after the action is performed when that action cannot be executed again. The length of the cool-down time is determined by the ability used, the character’s advancement level, and any associated buffs. All actions belong to a "cool-down group". "
Now these types of buffs have nothing to do with health, and some may fit in nicely with the entertainer professions. In addition, this specifically was mentioned:
"The profession trees for Entertainers, Musicians, Dancers and Image Designers will be affected by the Combat Upgrade, and will likely need some profession tweaking because of the changes with wounds, stat migration and buffs to the mind. We will make adjustments to entertainers by creating some long lasting, minor buffs for combat professions."
Hmmm... sounds to me like this is just the opposite of what you're saying they said. They're not taking away buffs, and we might even get more. Now right after they said this, they mention that the initial changes to the profession involve the ones that are on TC right now, and frankly I'm not sure why they did that, but they also did not say that these were the only changes we'll be seeing.
I'll be happy to entertain any debate on what I've posted here, so long as your arguments can be backed up by quotes from the devs, and not from conjecture or heresay. Conjecture and heresay have no place in any discussions right now, because we don't have all the information. Period.
DarkY0da
Sat Mar 19, 2005 8:37 pm
#30
I think the important part that you are missing in that bit is the key word "creating"+"Entertainer changes are outside the scope of the CU"
Now if creating those said minor combat type buffs is outside the scope of the CU. Then we aren't going to see it during the CU...
"will likely need some profession tweaking"
As in they haven't anything solid that they have decided on to help.
Any thing else I could say is still under el NDA but it sounded like those docs might be coming out soon anyways.
Now if creating those said minor combat type buffs is outside the scope of the CU. Then we aren't going to see it during the CU...
"will likely need some profession tweaking"
As in they haven't anything solid that they have decided on to help.
Any thing else I could say is still under el NDA but it sounded like those docs might be coming out soon anyways.
OrionsByte
Sat Mar 19, 2005 9:07 pm
#31
DarkY0da wrote:
I think the important part that you are missing in that bit is the key word "creating"+"Entertainer changes are outside the scope of the CU"
Now if creating those said minor combat type buffs is outside the scope of the CU. Then we aren't going to see it during the CU...
"will likely need some profession tweaking"
As in they haven't anything solid that they have decided on to help.
Any thing else I could say is still under el NDA but it sounded like those docs might be coming out soon anyways.
My personal interpretation of "Entertainer changes are outside the scope of the CU" means that we're not going to see any profession overhauls. As I said in my first post on this thread, nothing about the gameplay of entertainers is changing. How we interact with combatants has to change based on the scope of the CU, but the core of the entertainer professions will remain exactly the same.
If I'm wrong, so be it. I'll eat my words, and I'll do it unabashedly. But I still think it's too early to get upset and riled up, and it's certainly never proven useful to take what the devs say too literally. If you take the "entertainer changes" statement and look at it in context, then my translation of that is that while the combat professions are getting large, sweeping changes that will fundametally change the way they play the game, entertainers are not. Those kinds of changes to the entertainer professions are outside the scope of the CU. That doesn't mean we're getting diddly squat.
Like I said, if I'm wrong, fine. If you have more info than I do and you feel like your opinion is warrented, fine. But until I see the entire set of documents that detail every minute thing that's changing with the CU, I refuse to pass judgement, and I just wish everyone else would do the same. It's fine to have concerns, but when we all turn in to chicken little we're not doing anyone, least so ourselves, any favors.
--Qilue-UCW--
Sat Mar 19, 2005 11:00 pm
#32
Ororo wrote:
Battle Fatigue was a mental wound type; they've said health wounds will be the only surviving type and ALL OTHERS are being eliminated. Whatever else BF was it is NOT a health wound.
SithLord2600 wrote:
I sawthat we will only be able to heal battle fatigue and thought, "Well, they will still need us for something," Then I thought, does battle fatigue do anything? As far as I knew, BF only affected the strength of doctor buffs.
Thunderheart has said BF will still bea factor....
And i think it will become a BIGGER factor now that they are adding stims that anyone can use.
Stims lose there affectivenesswith the more BF you have (if anyone didn't know that)Under the current system Combatants didn't have to care about their BF unless they wanted to get buffs.
Out in the field they could have 1000 BF and not care at allbecause they were not the once who were losing money from inaffective stims (A stim goingfrom 400+ heals down to less then100)
Under this new system Combatnants are going to be playing alotmore attention to their BF if they are going to be usingthe new Stims.
Message Edited by --Qilue-UCW-- on 03-19-2005 10:07 PM
DarkY0da
Sat Mar 19, 2005 11:17 pm
#33
Doctors will have enhanced abilities that are enhanced with the use of consumables called enhancers.
Hmm so a doc will have an ability that can be enhanced by using an item...but that then means that they don't need that item to use their ability... I wonder what sort of ability a Doctor would have that they could use with out an item...
Hmm so a doc will have an ability that can be enhanced by using an item...but that then means that they don't need that item to use their ability... I wonder what sort of ability a Doctor would have that they could use with out an item...
SithLord2600
Sun Mar 20, 2005 10:55 am
#34
Just about everything in the game is getting nerfed. I hate to say it but I doubt anything will become bigger. Even if it is a bigger factor, two out of the three things we can do are going away. I don't know about you but most of the time I either buffed or healed mind wounds with the occasional BF heal but in order for peopel to get a high BF they have to die or fight for a really really long time on dath. I don't want musicians to have to count on death in order to survive.
--Qilue-UCW-- wrote:
Thunderheart has said BF will still bea factor....
And i think it will become a BIGGER factor now that they are adding stims that anyone can use.
Message Edited by --Qilue-UCW-- on 03-19-2005 10:07 PM
Bronski113
Sun Mar 20, 2005 2:43 pm
#35
I find no point to become upset about the changes at this point. When you compare these changes and think of these changes in terms of the current system things look like they will not be very good for us.
However, I never became an entertainer to buff, heal wounds and BF or anything like that.
I did it because I wanted to get involved in the social aspect of the game. I do the professions now because of the social aspect of the game.
At this point and time we do not know enough about the changes. Keep reading up on the changes as more is released and discuss what you think may be a problem.
In all honesty, compared to what has happened to entertainers through buffbots and afkers no changes could possibly stop me from playing the profession I love now.
We need some positive changes. I think they are coming. You may think I'm crazy for thinking that but that is what I believe.
Just wait and see and provide constructive feedback on the changes. If the devs listen then things will be improved for the better in regard to us. If they don't listen there's not a whole lot we can do, the changes are coming.
However, I never became an entertainer to buff, heal wounds and BF or anything like that.
I did it because I wanted to get involved in the social aspect of the game. I do the professions now because of the social aspect of the game.
At this point and time we do not know enough about the changes. Keep reading up on the changes as more is released and discuss what you think may be a problem.
In all honesty, compared to what has happened to entertainers through buffbots and afkers no changes could possibly stop me from playing the profession I love now.
We need some positive changes. I think they are coming. You may think I'm crazy for thinking that but that is what I believe.
Just wait and see and provide constructive feedback on the changes. If the devs listen then things will be improved for the better in regard to us. If they don't listen there's not a whole lot we can do, the changes are coming.
Quilex
Sun Mar 20, 2005 3:05 pm
#36
I have not read all the posts but the one above sums up some of my thoughts. I don't mind only healing BF if a some point we get an upgrade that gives us the tools to really perform well past what we can do now.
Once the CU is out the way they have promised re-vamps for all non-combat profs and this could include great stuff like much better all new music, ways of cordinating florish and lights shows and really being abel to put on a show, if that happens who cares about sitting in a cantine waiting for the nexted wounded soul. We will be setting up proper gigs using the outside venues even theaters. Let the combat side have it's fix now and we will get one soon.
The fact that they are willing to make such large changes is a good sign if they can have them so can we.
Combat_Medic_to_be
Sun Mar 20, 2005 3:07 pm
#37
My main concern is that, if a long term and short term buff cannot be used at the same time, long term buffs will be nigh on redundant. This is unless longterm buffs last the sort of time our buffs currently do and short term buffs last no more than 15mins.
My biggest gripe however, is the new combat class pre reqs. It's really going to hurt my character. I was overjoyed by the ID SP change as it allows me to master ent, musician, ID and still get a nice bit of TKA for combat. I think it would be far more effective to give everybody enough SP to master 1.25 combat proffesions and a new type of SP for other classes. The SP would have to be completely independant. This, imo, would give those who enjoy the non-combat proffesions a better chance to keep all the skills they enjoy whilst still having some combat skills. It would have to be alot more detailed than this however, I'll think it through sometime
My biggest gripe however, is the new combat class pre reqs. It's really going to hurt my character. I was overjoyed by the ID SP change as it allows me to master ent, musician, ID and still get a nice bit of TKA for combat. I think it would be far more effective to give everybody enough SP to master 1.25 combat proffesions and a new type of SP for other classes. The SP would have to be completely independant. This, imo, would give those who enjoy the non-combat proffesions a better chance to keep all the skills they enjoy whilst still having some combat skills. It would have to be alot more detailed than this however, I'll think it through sometime
DivaShowtime
Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:14 am
#38
--Qilue-UCW-- wrote:
Thunderheart has said BF will still bea factor....
And i think it will become a BIGGER factor now that they are adding stims that anyone can use.
....
Under this new system Combatnants are going to be playing alotmore attention to their BF if they are going to be usingthe new Stims.
well, even if BF will bea larger problem for the fighters in future, there is one problem with BF healing ..one entertainer/cantinaisenough toheal the BF of 1, 10 or even 100 or more players and none of them will have to wait for healing, all they have to do it watch or listen. without any form of buff we will be able to give, i see our income going down to a few credits a day.
Combat_Medic_to_be
Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:01 am
#39
Our healing after the CU is a big concern for me. I'd like to see our healing changed so that it is no longer passive. Make it so that somebody has to be listening to us and then we have to target them and perform a flourish. This flourish, directed at the target, would be what heals their wounds (if we still heal wounds) and BF. This, in my eyes, would increase the importance of entertainers and would probably increase our income a fair bit. Only problem is that the narlagon and omni box would need some changes so that they do not have to be targetted to be used.