Musician Archive
Thread: Can anyone help with the fast musician buff macro
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therealrosh
Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:42 am
#27
just a couple of quick points,
1. I never said AFK doesnt affect you in any way, I did say that if your actually entertaining, you will attract attention. If your simply begging/whining/complaining you wont attract welcome attention.
2. I never said you were an airheaded chit, I did say thats generally what you seem to find in the cantina's today.
3. I never said you were mean, I did say that this is a nasty forum with some very mean bitter people, and that the entertainer professions seem to be full of those types of people.
4. the only prof that has gotten any dev love in the last year is the Jedi and a little on the BH side by toning down the sp requirements.
5. I understand that you and your fellow entertainers feel left out, and ignored. But its not an excuse for all the flaming, if they drive their cars that way, i hope they pulltheir liscences beforethey kill someone,"dam you, thats 3 people who cut me off today,*crash*"...lol
6. I try to talk to everyone I come in contact with in the game, that is the point after all, I dont know why you have it in your head that anyone would pay $25 a month to play totally ignoring everything around them, after a year of meeting people in cantina's, starports, playercities, I have come to the conclusion that the former is a waste of time in general(not all the time but in general) to try to meet anyone in because of the attitude they have, and the latter would be the best because theygenuinly want you there.
7. My opinion has nothing to do with a lack of respect for your profession, it has to do with the scores of entertainers that i have met, and would rather have not, not the 2 or 3 that i have met and I hope have been a good friend to.
And finally, as i have said repeatedly, If you want my attention, be entertaining. As i said, i have paid 4 million creds to 2 different groups of LIVE entertainers to perform at weddings, and the parties afterwards. Why? because they were actually playing as a group in a *gasp* cantina and caught my eye, I chatted it up a bit and gladly hired them....BTW this is the ONLYgroups i have seen in a non player city cantina in the year and change that i have been playing. For both groups, it was the first time they had performed in a non player city cantina, and it turned out to be well worth their time to challenge the afk toons.
So before deciding what i think, or how I play, maybe you need to evaluate how the majority of your fellow entertainers are affecting your reputations, and possibly there are ways to beat an afk player, When they godmoded jedi for a while, the rest of us had to learn and adapt to beat them, its the same thing, change your style, look,or the way you engage people and you will getmyattention, I understand that not everyone is willing to do this because its easier to blame something else, but im sure that many of you are doing this everyday.
LyteFoot
Mon Nov 15, 2004 6:59 am
#28
therealrosh wrote:
just a couple of quick points,
1. I never said AFK doesnt affect you in any way, I did say that if your actually entertaining, you will attract attention. If your simply begging/whining/complaining you wont attract welcome attention.
You are so correct, unfortunately all to often it is not good attention. Combat people bring large pets in to cover us, the cuss, they make derogitory remarks aimed at the females, they throw their homophibic comments at the male entertainers, heck I've even heard racial slurs. I've had to report 7 people over the 2 months I've been a master hanging out at Theed. In every case they were making VERY insulting, derogitory, and belittlingstatements at the female dancers for no other reason than they could and probably because they had some stupid idea it made them sound tough.
I thoroughly enjoy playing music and entertaining. You will find that I try very hard to keep an ATK group around me, that I greet people, that I go out of my way to be nice. I never seta price for a buff and rarely even complain at the large percentage of people who assume its just their right and walk off without a thank you or tip. I perform with people as a coordinated band, I try to write pleasing mixes of flourishes, I try different instruments to make the few songs we have sound different. I look for other entertainers to work together as a unit.
In short, I work HARD at making the content I have enjoyable for me, my friends, and as a consequence the rest of the players. In return I get everything from strong appreciation to down right hostility and grief. Did an impromptu starport jam at Theed Sunday night and along comes some template stacking d00d to park vehicles and pets on top of us, cuss us, laugh at us for paying 15 a month to play songs and dance, and tell us to get combat skills. We were well to the side of the main entrance by the new ship crafting station so d00d had to go out of his way to insult us. That is how we get treated more often than you realize and that is where the anger comes from.
We don't get content handed to us, we don't have terminals that give meaningful missions or even pay squat. We don't have miles and miles of nests to shoot, or whole other guilds to go to war with. What we have is a social environment that has been made into one people hate or ignore thanks to the ready availability of our services from robots.
LyteFoot
Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:56 am
#29
therealrosh wrote:
1. I can totally understand your points of veiw that AFK makes your profession harder, but I still think removing recursive macro's is the wrong way to deal with them, they dont make your profession unplayable, just more difficult.(better way may involve IP tracking, 1 active toon per address but that would of course cancel about 1/2 soe's income from this game)
It isn't just that it makes the profession harder, it is that it leaves a perception with a lot of players that we are just NPC or barely above them. You won't see many players pull stunts on docs because the docs can refuse to do business and it becomes hard to get buffs. As long as buff bots are as prevelant as they are this will never be true for entertainers. Who is afraid of not getting healed and mind buffed, no one because there are plenty of bots around.
Also macros aren't going away. The recursive macro isn't that big a deal, its very easy to cut and paste the 3 lines of most macros over and over again so one button push gives you 30 minutes of processing.
MusicalDina
Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:33 pm
#30
but see rosh it shouldnt even be happening. We shouldnt have to compete with people that arent even there.
And i understand what you are saying. I have met a ton of combat players i would rather have not met. It goes in all ways. I tend to think we remember bad experiences more than any other, and if i look back at my memories of dealing with nonfriend combatants i would have a rather large distaste for them.
These forums are a place for whining, among other things. If there is something for your profession you want changed where do you go? the profession forums. Any move against AFK would be a large improvement to our play, thus, you see a lot of anti afk on our boards. The majority of us keep it in our boards, not going to say jedi boards and complaining about it there. It just so happens that we have a large issue, that negatively effects all entertainers, and is all over our boards. We are not unique in this. When the big CH nerf of 2003 happened there was nothing else. It didnt stay on their boards but spread to GCW, general discussion, and a lot of other places as well.
I understand them because it was a large nerf. But understand that most of us keep it on these boards unless somebody else brings it up first on another board. (there are exceptions to this rule of course as always). We really arent that different in other words.
I am glad you socialize with people. It is what makes MMOs so great. Playing it any other way would be stupid, i mean playing a multiplayer, single player? doesnt make sense. BUT, people seem to forget things. Because this is a multiperson game there is a need to be dependent on other players. If a player becomes uneeded it is bad for the game.
Let me just say that last post made me respect you a lot more 
Perhaps you came across in the first posts more hostile? I do understand where you are coming from. there are angry players throughout the game. People do talk about wierd things, some are roleplaying some are not. I know i do tend to talk about stuff that may not matter to a whole lot of people, but thats just from lack of anything else to talk about. Dont get me wrong, but part of my interaction is with people who do want totalk about that stuff. To me boring talk is about killing 50 rancors in 30 minutes.
Perhaps you came across in the first posts more hostile? I do understand where you are coming from. there are angry players throughout the game. People do talk about wierd things, some are roleplaying some are not. I know i do tend to talk about stuff that may not matter to a whole lot of people, but thats just from lack of anything else to talk about. Dont get me wrong, but part of my interaction is with people who do want totalk about that stuff. To me boring talk is about killing 50 rancors in 30 minutes. It is all relative i guess. I know when those new slave skirts came out a couple weeks back it was the talk of the town. I guess that would be boring talk.
Most of my money is mde from the 'gigs' you speak of. In fact when i started this character, i had a whole band around me. There was five of us, all in a uniform, all doing the same flourishes. It was great. My 'band' did a revival tour about a month ago. We were a little rusty at first, and we went to the major NPC cantinas as well as some of the minor ones. People all said, wow, thats cool, but walked right by to the buff bot.
people are now used to the buffbots. It is part of their routine.
I just want to point out your #5. Reason to flame. I am mixed about this. People coming to the musician boards and asking for a macro to help them are not flamed. People who come and ask for a macro to help them go afk, and do something else while they are buffed, i have mixed feeling about. i mean they are asking us to help them ruin our profession. Which we have blantantly said we will not help anybody do. Besides had he looked in the stickies before posting we would not be here today posting.
Personally I think i see us agruing two points here. That AFK does ruin entertainer and the attitude of entertainers. I cannot argue the attitude of entertainers, I see what you see on these forums. I wish these forums were happier but in reality these forums really arent for saying happy glowing things. How many top 5 lists have you seen. How many issues with this or whatnot that the devs order correspondants to put out. These forums are for feedback to the devs. And we just dont want the devs to miss the fact we want AFK gone.
As for entertainer attitudes ingame, i have no idea. My experiences are completely opposite of yours. I was in one group in coronet a couple months ago that was griping about AFK (in group chat), but other than that it really hasnt been that bad. I dont have exact numbers but I would say 85-90% of entertainers are not mad yelling and shouting about afk ingame, but i hardly hear anything about afk ingame. Well besides that guy has been afk for 2 hours, kick him from group, or other things along that line.
I have seen a couple entertainers ask why the player is using the buffbot, when her buff is quicker and better. Overall it is generally not a negative attitude i get ingame from entertainers.Maybe its just your server? Maybe you just have bad luck, or me good.
As for the other argument, I recomend reading Tiggs post on the dancer forum about afk. He admits that it is a problem and he gives some good references as to why. he is a dev and probably a good source 
(if somebody could clicky that post here? I am about as good with clickies as i am with a horse (dont ask))
(if somebody could clicky that post here? I am about as good with clickies as i am with a horse (dont ask))We do get go on with the game. We do what we can, when we can, and live with it. We have found ways to get around the buffbot and afks, but why should this even be necessary. Learning to live with the uberjedis is atleast somewhat tolerable because at least the jedi is another player.
Goldshadow
Mon Nov 15, 2004 7:51 pm
#31
Aory -
I don't agree with you, butyour arguments are reasonably well thought out and you show that you can defend your ideas with experience.You're right about one thing, we get downright hostile and whiney sometimes. It's not a valid defense, but some of us have been working for a long time to get some fixes in that will make what we do worthwhile. As for me, worthwhile is when someone comes up to me and says, "Wow, that song sounds so cool. I've never heard that before". I'd be perfectly happy if what we do wasn't "necessary", but people came to us because we had some cool stuff that they couldn't see or hear anyplace else.
The most important thing is that I'd like to thank you for playing this game as an interactive, multiplayer game. Whatever you feel the entertainer forums might be like, you play the game the way that it's supposed to be played. Thank you.
Some day, if you're willing, I'd like to invite you to visit with me on Bria. I'll provide a Master Musician (myself) and a Master Dancer (I'll find someone) to spend an hour or two in Coronet offering buffs. I know that there have been a number of entertainers that have tried to conduct "experiments" like this and I've seen the posted results. Are you willing to join me as an impartial observer and share with me what you see? I'd like to see the situation from outside our viewpoint and I'm too close to the situation to be objective about it.
kirah_ashlin
Mon Nov 15, 2004 8:28 pm
#32
Goldshadow wrote:
Aory -
Some day, if you're willing, I'd like to invite you to visit with me on Bria. I'll provide a Master Musician (myself) and a Master Dancer (I'll find someone) to spend an hour or two in Coronet offering buffs.
You'll find SOMEONE?!?!?!
/pout
Message Edited by kirah_ashlin on 11-15-2004 10:39 PM
therealrosh
Mon Nov 15, 2004 9:31 pm
#33
Goldshadow wrote:
Aory -
I don't agree with you, butyour arguments are reasonably well thought out and you show that you can defend your ideas with experience.You're right about one thing, we get downright hostile and whiney sometimes. It's not a valid defense, but some of us have been working for a long time to get some fixes in that will make what we do worthwhile. As for me, worthwhile is when someone comes up to me and says, "Wow, that song sounds so cool. I've never heard that before". I'd be perfectly happy if what we do wasn't "necessary", but people came to us because we had some cool stuff that they couldn't see or hear anyplace else.
The most important thing is that I'd like to thank you for playing this game as an interactive, multiplayer game. Whatever you feel the entertainer forums might be like, you play the game the way that it's supposed to be played. Thank you.
Some day, if you're willing, I'd like to invite you to visit with me on Bria. I'll provide a Master Musician (myself) and a Master Dancer (I'll find someone) to spend an hour or two in Coronet offering buffs. I know that there have been a number of entertainers that have tried to conduct "experiments" like this and I've seen the posted results. Are you willing to join me as an impartial observer and share with me what you see? I'd like to see the situation from outside our viewpoint and I'm too close to the situation to be objective about it.
Ive played a doctor on starsider, and its not all gravy either, from the unlimited tells before you even load in, to the same 1337 doods dropping stuff on you because your price is to high, so it happens whenever you mix 12 year olds with adults. But I do believe you that Entertainers get the poo end of the stick from players. Partly because you generally cant defend yourself. I'll gladly start a toon on bria,not neccesarily for an experiment, but just to say hi sometime.
MusicalDina
Mon Nov 15, 2004 11:36 pm
#34
I cant really argue much with any of rosh's last posts. Kind of makes me sad, as he has argued his point well.
BUT, one thing i would like to point out. (maybe start a new arguement)
Recursive macros.
As they make everybody's lives easier i can see why people would like them. Heck i use them all the time, lets me not push the button every so often.
However this along with any other way to call your macro without actually doing something, ie aliases, and calling another macro within a macro, are what lets people play AFK.
I realize they are a very useful tool, especially for us (ever make a song? put the refrain in one macro and other parts in other macros, less typing you must do) but i would gladly give it up for the death of afk play.
The way people use it legitamately, IE crafting macro, or CoB macro, or whatever, can easily be turned into a macro that every so often you have to push a button.
In other words that CoB macro you have now, would instead of /ui action toolbarSlot00, turn into something like /tell (whatever your name is) macro finished push button.
That way the macro would tell you to push the button and all you have to do is hit the button you normally would to restart the macro.
Is that really asking too much? i dont think so. Especially since you can make macros up to 2 hours long i think. So put a /cob then pause for whatever, then /cob and pause, rinse repeat for about 30 times and you have a macro that you only have to push a button every 2 hours.
What this does is makes it so that anybody afk cannot keep their macro going longer than that without coming back to the keyboard to reset it or a third party program which could then be atleast somewhat obvious.
However if they could come up with a way to stop afk play and keep it in im all for it, just that solution hasnt been brought up yet.
One thing i was thinking was maybe make the /afk not turn off unless somebody is at the keys, and boot somebody that has afk for 30 minutes? Dont really know just throwing it out there. I would be more in favor of a solution that keeps recursive macros in, but like i said, it seems to be the easiest solution.
On another note, it has been a fun thread in my opinion Got anything else to argue? Like if i whacked you with my kloo horn would you see stars?
Got anything else to argue? Like if i whacked you with my kloo horn would you see stars?
Goldshadow
Tue Nov 16, 2004 2:45 pm
#35
kirah_ashlin wrote:
Goldshadow wrote:
Aory -
Some day, if you're willing, I'd like to invite you to visit with me on Bria. I'll provide a Master Musician (myself) and a Master Dancer (I'll find someone) to spend an hour or two in Coronet offering buffs.
You'll find SOMEONE?!?!?!
/pout
Message Edited by kirah_ashlin on 11-15-2004 10:39 PM
I kinda figured it was better to ask you before dragging you off to Coronet.
kirah_ashlin
Thu Nov 18, 2004 6:04 am
#36
Ah, so you mean that leaving me stranded in the Coronet ID tent with purple hair for 2 daysis different somehow? /giggle
Goldshadow wrote:
kirah_ashlin wrote:
Goldshadow wrote:
Aory -
Some day, if you're willing, I'd like to invite you to visit with me on Bria. I'll provide a Master Musician (myself) and a Master Dancer (I'll find someone) to spend an hour or two in Coronet offering buffs.
You'll find SOMEONE?!?!?!
/pout
Message Edited by kirah_ashlin on 11-15-2004 10:39 PM
I kinda figured it was better to ask you before dragging you off to Coronet.
Maisland
Thu Nov 18, 2004 6:10 am
#37
therealrosh wrote:
just a couple of quick points,
1. I never said AFK doesnt affect you in any way, I did say that if your actually entertaining, you will attract attention. If your simply begging/whining/complaining you wont attract welcome attention.
2. I never said you were an airheaded chit, I did say thats generally what you seem to find in the cantina's today.
3. I never said you were mean, I did say that this is a nasty forum with some very mean bitter people, and that the entertainer professions seem to be full of those types of people.
4. the only prof that has gotten any dev love in the last year is the Jedi and a little on the BH side by toning down the sp requirements.
5. I understand that you and your fellow entertainers feel left out, and ignored. But its not an excuse for all the flaming, if they drive their cars that way, i hope they pulltheir liscences beforethey kill someone,"dam you, thats 3 people who cut me off today,*crash*"...lol
6. I try to talk to everyone I come in contact with in the game, that is the point after all, I dont know why you have it in your head that anyone would pay $25 a month to play totally ignoring everything around them, after a year of meeting people in cantina's, starports, playercities, I have come to the conclusion that the former is a waste of time in general(not all the time but in general) to try to meet anyone in because of the attitude they have, and the latter would be the best because theygenuinly want you there.
7. My opinion has nothing to do with a lack of respect for your profession, it has to do with the scores of entertainers that i have met, and would rather have not, not the 2 or 3 that i have met and I hope have been a good friend to.
And finally, as i have said repeatedly, If you want my attention, be entertaining. As i said, i have paid 4 million creds to 2 different groups of LIVE entertainers to perform at weddings, and the parties afterwards. Why? because they were actually playing as a group in a *gasp* cantina and caught my eye, I chatted it up a bit and gladly hired them....BTW this is the ONLYgroups i have seen in a non player city cantina in the year and change that i have been playing. For both groups, it was the first time they had performed in a non player city cantina, and it turned out to be well worth their time to challenge the afk toons.
So before deciding what i think, or how I play, maybe you need to evaluate how the majority of your fellow entertainers are affecting your reputations, and possibly there are ways to beat an afk player, When they godmoded jedi for a while, the rest of us had to learn and adapt to beat them, its the same thing, change your style, look,or the way you engage people and you will getmyattention, I understand that not everyone is willing to do this because its easier to blame something else, but im sure that many of you are doing this everyday.
I feel that I have to point out that all the items that I have highlighted are symptoms of afk play. It is afk characters that beg (and teach new entertainers to beg). It is the afk entertainers that have made the cantina atmosphere unpleasant. It is those afk-tainers that have affected the reputations of all entertainers negatively. It is those that are afkwhom I generally add to my ignore list on the occasions when I visit an NPC cantina. It is afk entertainers that are what you generally find in the cantinas these days.
When I made my very first entertainer, the cantinas were a much nicer place to spend time in. The first time I saw someone who had put a beg for healing in their macro, the entire entertainer group thought the guy was stupid for having done so. These days, the afk crowd teaches new entertainers to do that as a matter of course... and to macro begging for tips and forinvitations to groups as well.
I find that this atmosphere (caused by the afk-tainers and buff bots) so unpleasant, that I rarely go to the cantina. It is just too stressful. On the other hand, on the occasions when I have gone, I have been very successful... and I find that I get more tips than the entire afk crowd there... not to mention all the eh xp I could want. It is unfortunate, but true, that the presence of the zombies makes it so unpleasant. It is hard sometimes, to compete with all the spam. I have noticed this also when I have taken one of my (2) non-entertainer characters to the cantina. All that spam makes finding the atk entertainer difficult.
The good news is that the crowd of zombies seems to have thinned some since they eliminated holocron grinding. Unfortunately, they have left a lot of damage behind.
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