Musician Archive

Looping macros have to go. I know people complain that mastering an entertainer field is tedious without afking but so are all the other professions. You cannot macro your way to master DE or architect or any other elite profession. With the Jedi revamp, hopefully it will eliminate those who actually don't really want to be entertainers. You will still be able to write a fairly long macro for a song or dance but without the looping, you will actually have to be there to start the macro again when it ends. Not only will this fix the entertainer field but will also fix other fields where people have pushed the use of macros way over their intent. Lets keep gameplay to those who actually want to play it. Put some worth back in being an entertainer by removing the non-playing afk bots. At the same time anything like this is implimented, it is equally important to make sure a third party program is not going to bypass the effort. Not being a programmer with a full understanding of the mechanics of the software, its kind of hard for us to give a suggestion on how to solve this problem. As with every other fix we have seen, it usually brings along an annoyance... Please try to minimize this annoyance.

If we take a look at RL entertainers,they have to take breaks. Most sets are rarely longer then 20 minutes and then one must take a break. Of course they could push themselfs longer. Perhaps a popup box should be implimented that will require a direct input that cannot be macroed. This was the fix for the afk survey samplersalthough most entertainer macros can easily include starts and stops and even sits... Perhaps this is another aproach depending on game mechnics. Perhaps certain commands can be made non macroable if that is possible. Especially the grouping commands. Add a non macroable confirmation box when inviting someone to a group, or getting invited to a group. Of course the default would be "no" or "decline" so an "enter" would not complete the sequence.

/mood perplexed

I did not write the game oreven personalize the comments I made...they were mostly general facts and opinions dealing with macrotainers. You'll find my recommendations on some of the early posts in this thread.

Heres a suggestion....limit the number of entertainers per cantina....and put them on the stages on the sides of them...or on the main stage in player cantinas..

This way it will spread entertainers throughout the galaxy rather than them ALL being in coronet cantina. Even better make player cantina owners able to make missions for entertainers based on loc, minimum rank and duration....instantly the carrer is more interesting.

Yah, and let's limit how many players can hunt enraged rancor, or how many docs can sit outside starports buffing, or how many vendors can actually shout out ads, or...

Not that I like the hologrind, but the reward is there. And players should be free to go wherever and do whatever it takes to maximize their experience. A group of 20 in the coronet cantina can level faster than a solo in a cantina on some remote outpost. And setting up a macro doesn't hurt squat. It's irrelevant whether or not a player is actually at the keyboard, as it's still providing service to the community.

When I'm available, I'm at my keyboard, as I'm usually the group lead. When I'm not, I pass the leadership to someone else and carry on with my normal life. Many of us do not want to be entertainer. I'm having to give up the skill template I chose for my character to pursue the path to Jedi, an integral part of the game and the star wars fantasy universe. It harms nobody, yet those of you who want to play ent's seem to take huge offense at it. This is silly, since most of those players are already master and have maxxed their XP points anyway.

You don't find any other profession that complains about the transients coming through due to hologrinding. It seems you've made this an issue amongst yourselves, but it is not a real problem with the game or the community. In fact, it has introduced me to players that I would not have met otherwise. The same faces are always there in my group and we all have the same goal. There has developed a certain amount of esprit de corps in this group, having traversed a rather tedious road together.

BuffBots and AFK grinders aren't harming your profession in any real measurable way. In fact it provides you with a steady stream of AP. Perhaps if the lifers in your community would take a more active role and provide assistance to the grinders you'd find there are more rewards available than just AP.

*Lilo sighs and tries it again...*

Note to the reader: I'm just taking snippets of Tai's post, for what I cut out you can refer to the abov post.Tai's quoteswill retain their orignial color and all of my comments will be in green.

Yah, and let's limit how many players can hunt enraged rancor, or how many docs can sit outside starports buffing, or how many vendors can actually shout out ads, or... Here we go, this is exactly the type of thing this tread was made for--to discuss the various ideas presented on how to fix the AFK problem.

Not that I like the hologrind, but the reward is there. Exactly, you want to be a Jedi, in order to acheive this you have decided to do the hologring. Therefore, since you want to do the hologrind (you wouldn't be doing it if you didn't want to) you want to grind entertainment professions. A group of 20 in the coronet cantina can level faster than a solo in a cantina on some remote outpost./nod I don't think this was ever in dispute...And setting up a macro doesn't hurt squat. /sigh /groan When did the entertainers ever establish that macros hurt us? Never. It is the AFK macroing that destroys the profession. It's irrelevant whether or not a player is actually at the keyboard, as it's still providing service to the community. And what service is this? To allow anyone to come by and rape you? A disservice is done to the coummunity because of AFKing. Because AFK macrotainers have cheapened themselves and the entertainment professions, the people who have taken advantage of the AFK'ers think they are somehow entitled to keep up that behavior. This degrades those of us who are at the keyboard trying to earn a respectable living.

Many of us do not want to be entertainer. As I established above, you wouldn't be doing entertainer if you didn't want to do it. Becoming a Jedi is just an excuse...it is creating the desire to want to hologrind and by extention, you want to be in these other professions. I'm having to give up the skill template I chose for my characterAgain, no one is forcing you to do this. You don't have togive up your skill template, you're choosing to do it.Jedi, an integral part of the game and the star wars fantasy universe.Jedi is an integral part of the Star Wars universe, but it is simply another profession in-game, albeit a "rare" one. This game was not createdfor the sole purpose of gettingto play a Jedi, this game was created so everyone could live out their own little piece of Star Wars. Jedi are a small proportion of the peoplewho make up the SW universe. If people wanteda game in which Jedi is integral to their in-game character, they couldgo out and buyany number of Jedi-themed SW games and not have to grind to get toit in Galaxies. Having a Galaxies Jedi is a perk, not a right. It harms nobody, yet those of you who want to play ent's seem to take huge offense at it.Yes,we do take offense toAFK macrotaining. It destroysour income, our customers,our reputation, and our way of life.Some people just coming into Galaxies probably have no idea there are such things as live entertainers becausethey've never seen them. These people probably think that all the music, dances, and entertainers in generalstink because all they've seen is an AFK macrotainer spamming random flourishes and spouting useless and offensive spam.Every day the entertainment community loses another great mentor to those who enter the game. This is silly, since most of those players are already master and have maxxed their XP points anyway.One of my many tasks in-game is to make people feel welcome. I wouldn't be any good as an entertainer if I couldn't do that. We who have mastered,and who have maxxed ourXP, AP, and SP are still there for the newer people. I'm perfectly happy to help out a fledgeling entertainer, in fact it is a great honor to get someone started on the path to becoming an entertainer. As a Master I have a choice. I can choose to be exclusive and never let a noob try his slitherhorn, or I can teach him the ropes of successful entertainership. I opt for the latter. Let me tell you a story about master unkindness.

I was entertaining in my home cantina, The Drunken Tusken, when a Novice Entertainer came in. When I spoke to this young Mon Cal, he told me that he understood that as a Master Musician I wouldn't want to play with him and that he was perfectly content to take a quiet corner where he could play his slitherhorn. Immediately red flags went up in my mind. What Master Musician wouldn't want to help out this poor Calamari. I spoke to him at length and finally worked out his tale of woe. He was new to exploring the galaxy, and he had done afew combat missions so he could earn hispassage to Dathomir and back. Once he got to Dathomir, he realized immediately that the missions were way beyond his skill, but not wanting to waste the money he had worked so hard to get, he decided to go to the cantina and hone his music skills some--hopefully be able to heal people and such. When he got into the cantina, he found a madhouse of musicians, dancers, and entertainers. There were about 30 or so in there, and they seemed to be grouped together somewhat with about 20 in one group and ten in the other. This Novice Entertainer walks up to a member of the group of 10 and asks if he can play with them. That person sent back the cryptic reply "AFK auto response. I am not at my keyboard" not knowing how to interpret this, the Mon Cal tried others in the group until finally he got the reply ask our leader if you can join. After learning the leader's name, he tried to gain entrance into the group, but was told "No, the groups in here are full. Go away <edit> n00b."

I was of course flabbergasted at this account. How could anyone be so rude? Sadly, I didn't give this entertainer the benefit of the doubt, but I comforted him anyway. I played along with him for about an hour or so and then decided to test his story. I found who had treated him so poorly and then headed off for Dathomir making sure to contact my tailor first.

I arrived on Dathomir with Yellow-striped white slacks and a white shirt, slitherhorn in hand and sporting the Novice Entertainer title. Upon entering the cantina I found the situation exactly as my Mon Cal friend had described it. (After all, since they were mostly AFK, how could there be change? Sorry, I digress...back to the story.) I requested membership in the second group which still only had around 10 people in it, and I was rebuffed in just as rude a manner as the Mon Calamari was. I played for about 15 minutes with SW1 on my Slitherhorn and at then I again requested to be added to the group. Again my petition was refused because "the group is too full." I decided right then that I would take revenge for the one who couldn't. I pulled out my Nalargon, plastered "Master Musician" above my head, and started plunking away at Virtuoso. Immediately the healing xp began pouring in as did buff requests. Also immediate was the invitation I got to join the group which had just been "too full." I played there for the rest of the night and my guess is that I "stole" close to 100k worth of healing xp from that jerk.

The point of this story is that live Entertainers are interested in community while macrotainers and hologrinders are simply interested in credits and xp. *grins* perhaps I should add the bumper sticker "I group with n00bs" to my speeder. hehe

You don't find any other profession that complains about the transients coming through due to hologrinding.No, no other professions except Architect, Armorsmith, Artisan, Bio Engineer, Bounty Hunter, Brawler, Carbineer, Chef, CombatMedic, Commando, Creature Handler, Dancer, Doctor, Droid Engineer...in fact the only profession I can think of that doesn't complain about the hologrinders is Jedi, and even there you can find people who support actually trying out professions instead of grinding them.It seems you've made this an issue amongst yourselves, but it is not a real problem with the game or the community. I think I (and many others) have established that there is a real problem with AFK macroing and hologrindingin the game community. In fact, it has introduced me to players that I would not have met otherwise. Imagine how many more people you would know if you'd stayed at the keyboard to meet them! The same faces are always there in my group and we all have the same goal. There has developed a certain amount of esprit de corps in this group, having traversed a rather tedious road together.

BuffBots and AFK grinders aren't harming your profession in any real measurable way.Umm...isn't that just what we've been over for the nth...oh, never mind. /sigh In fact it provides you with a steady stream of AP. Not really, normally hologrinders are rich enough to pay for NPC training, and when they're not they still don't get training from me because I refuse to support their practice in any way. I know that they'll either have to convince me that they're not hologrinding or they'll have to go to an NPC trainer because they'll never find another hologrinder to train them. (They're all AFK) Perhaps if the lifers in your community would take a more active role and provide assistance to the grinders you'd find there are more rewards available than just AP. My rewards come from helping the community mature and prosper. I don't really care about XP, AP, SP, or credits...sure they're all nice to have, but honestly the main thing I require from the game community is respect for me and for my fellow Entertainment Professionals. I ask for nothing else in return. The simple fact of the matter is, AFK macrotainers are not just destroying the means to get XP, AP, and credits, but they are also destroying respect for entertainers. This is intolerable.

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Sorry for how long this post went, but I wanted the story in there. Just a plea to those who reply to this...please, please read the entirety of posts before you respond. It gets tedious answering the same questions over and over.

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TaiDokken wrote:

"Our profession"??? Most professionals, RL and In-game,refer to their profession this way.

All of you "I did it all without AFK"... If it's so fun, start surrendering and relearning skills and burn off ALL your XP. Then surrender the entire tree down to Novice entertainer and go work your way back up. I double dog dare you. Then come back in here and see if you still want to kill off AFK macroing. My bet is you'll be singing a much different tune. Nope, no difference in tune--SW1 sounds just the same coming from my Slitherhorn as a master as it does as a novice (*smlies* actually it sounds somewhat better now because I know what flourishes sound good together and how long I should pause between them to keep them sounding good).

Here is a list of my entertainment characters by month and what skills they have/had.

July- 4/4/4/4 Entertainer,Master Image Designer,4/1/4/2 Dance, 4/1/4/1 Music(not played at all to begin with,really started around December)

===> August - Master Musician, Master Entertainer (played almost daily) <=== This is Lilo

February - 0/4/0/4 Entertainer, 4/2/4/3 Dance

April - 4/0/4/4 Entertainer

*smiles* oh, and something you may have leared if you spent time at the keyboard is that learning skills is not the only way to get rid of xp. You can just unlearn all the skills and then perfom one tic worth of the xp you want to get rid of and it will take away all your excess xp...you can be down from 200k healing xp tojust a fewhealing xp with a single flourish.

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