Musician Archive

Thread: 15 sec wait to start after stopping?

JohnMarble
Tue Apr 27, 2004 8:57 pm
#14

I'm glad they fixed it. I hated 30second buffs, the way they looked and sounded. I didn't like people asking me to do it. Things were getting bad, a roomful of grinders stopping/starting, it was an exploit. Buy a performance droid if you need to play more than two instruments.


Mariki
Tue Apr 27, 2004 10:37 pm
#15



If you have to listen for two minutes, then why did they do the 15 second pause also??


I swear they stay up late thinking of ways to annoy the players... And thenthey are dumbfounded when people leave...


Or do they have several teams all making changes and none know what the others are doing?


Maybe my tolerance level is low for stupid changes...


I don't do buffs, they waste too much of my time so I don't care if they just dump the whole buff thing anyways, it takes too long. Whoever came up with that 10 min per buff thing is an idiot in my opinion.



Message Edited by Mariki on 04-27-2004 10:38 PM

Message Edited by Mariki on 04-27-2004 10:41 PM



Mariki Lee, Ex Rifleman
Last day Dec 2nd
Death by NGE
- All Hope Gone
Fragpuppie
Tue Apr 27, 2004 10:47 pm
#16

The 15 second pause solved the other issue of "Spam flourish /stop /start macros"...faster xp gain.


For many people the resetting of the times confused the server such that it awarded XP more often than every 10 seconds. In some cases it is reported to be as high as 4X as much as normal playing.


Of the 2 implemented fixes, the 15 sec delay is the only one that solves both 30 sec buffing and the XP gain.


However it is the fix that causes more side issues such as changing instruments and switching to dance.



Fragpuppie Uber
Master Entertainer, Master Musician
Guild Leader - Performer United Professional Society (PUPS)
Band Leader and Booking Agent - Frag's Puppies
President and CEO - Fragpuppie Enterprises and Uber Instruments
Coronet, Corellia, Chilastra


Lyreley
Wed Apr 28, 2004 12:14 am
#17

Practically, the intervalis longer than 15 seconds if the previous song is stopped by /stopmusic, for there will be an extra "ending bar" before the melody line completely finishes itself. This further eliminates theefficiency of the start/stop spamming macro used in any quick buff.


However, I don'tthinksuch anadjustmentaddresses theissue of buff-bots. Maybe the devs are pro-bots (well, you know what I'm referring to), after all.



Tiaga
Wed Apr 28, 2004 4:29 am
#18

The 15 second wait is annoying. While I'm happy they addressed the issue, I wish they did it by fixing the underlying problem instead of putting a band-aid over it. I'm going to see if there are plans to remove it in the future, or at least change it to measure start to start instead of stop to start. While that wouldn't take care of ALL the things it breaks, it would get most of them.

And yes, the 15 second delay "fixes" both the speed-buff and xp exploits. The 2 minute minimum was put in as a sort of "safety net" against any future speed-buff exploits people might find.



Inside my heart is breaking, my make-up may be flaking
But my smile still stays on
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Fairytales of yesterday will grow but never die
I can fly - my friends
SWG Entertainer.com Fashions by TK

GerRob
Wed Apr 28, 2004 4:34 am
#19

... and this change also took care of the xp routines
which were taking start/stop spamming to a new level.

And actually I more "feel" that this was the main reason
for the change in start/stop. The 30 sec buff was taken
care of with the 2 minute timer the customer needs to
pay attention.

So... its always the same circle... some people exploit
the system, if it get to much or to vocal, the loophole
is fixed.
That there are sideeffects for the "normal" users, well...

I blame it on the exploiters.



Chimaera: Joshua --- Master Medic, Master Creature Handler
Chilastra: Nikita --- Master Entertainer, Master Musician, Master Dancer

GCW (Star Wars, Imperial vs Rebel) not equals PvP (Player vs Player)!
Account Cancelled 23.Oct '04 ... So No JTL for me!
Gknee
Wed Apr 28, 2004 5:02 am
#20






Anoula wrote:

Nosmina/Gknee,


Yes, you are right that IRL it would take a few seconds at least to change instruments. My father was a woodwind musician for most of his life, and he doubled up when playing in various orchestras (meaning for those who don't understand, that he played Bassoon and Clarinet for instance, switching between the two mid performance).


However, in the SWG universe... when the entertainersare *used* to the short span of time to switch from one instrument to the next, it's not unreasonable for them to be a little... disturbed (?) when they suddenly find that they have to wait an extra10 seconds or so before they can play again. Would you want to miss a cue because you were forced to take longer for an instrument switch when you were accustomed to doing it faster? In all honesty that would be pretty embarrassing and frustrating for me as a musician, in game or out of game.


Oh, and "roleplay" it?



What do you think some of us have been doing all along?








I was trying offer some ideas on how to "play" the break. I guess I failed. Maybe a poll to see how everyone is feeling might be in order. I personally like the break much better then the 30sec spammer. The one measure of music over and over was very annoying.




Nosmina Osoga
Proprietor of The Dew Drop Inn
Mesric Sanctuary, Tatoonine
(mmmm.....Cake.....)
Minty freshness!!
Bwgan
Wed Apr 28, 2004 5:34 am
#21

The 15 second delay is a performance killer. And I don't agree with the 2min minimum buff EITHER. I spend 1.5x as much skill points as a master doctor and can't cure poison/disease, cure states, or rezz. I enjoy the social aspect but I have to make money too, so if you're going to give us buffs make them decent, at least make them relevant to the expenditure of skill points! A 30-second buff WITHOUT an exploit macro would be highly appropriate.



Takeo Takeda - Master Pikeman/Master Brawler/TKM, Eclipse
Kyorlana
Wed Apr 28, 2004 6:04 am
#22

It is true to say that this only affects those that play a certain way. The fact is though that bands like Talus moon and Astral Fantasia have been pushing the limits of what is possible in game with the limited tools available to us. This is what makes us stand out as great performers.


The 15 second pause is plain and simply detrimental to serious band performers.


We may be in the minority, but the effort we put into it proves how much we care about our professions andit is not right to penalise us because of some xp exploiters.



Echinacea
Wed Apr 28, 2004 6:08 am
#23




Kyorlana wrote:

We may be in the minority, but the effort we put into it proves how much we care about our professions andit is not right to penalise us because of some xp exploiters.




It never is, darlin'. And it will never change that a few rotten apples spoil the barrel for everyone. Game mechanics will always win out over aesthetics.



Col. Tarot v Starsider
Elder Master Entertainer and AXIS M.I.L.F.
Mathom © Starsider
Entertainer
LadyGrey
Thu Apr 29, 2004 3:38 pm
#24

I find the "fixes" to the game to be ludicrous, with this 15 second wait being just another example of bad programming practices. There is a cardinal rule that should be applied to every game that is released to the public:

DO NOT TAKE AWAY PRIVILEGES THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN GRANTED.

Even if people can take "advantage" of it, just learn to live with it. Instead of taking something away, and having a very good chance of breaking something else in the process, give something new. Come up with something you can ADD to the game, that will negate the "evil" that is being perpetrated. Just remember that what you convince the devs to take away from someone else, is also being taken away from you, in one form or another.

The glass is neither half-empty, nor half-full. It is simply over-engineered. Pour the water into a smaller glass, and you now have a full glass.



/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
LadyGrey

Don't let the negative AFKophobes get you down. Play the game however you want.

Is the beta testing almost over for this game?
NewJedi
Fri Apr 30, 2004 8:40 am
#25

We entertainer Correspondents have asked the devs whether there might be some less disruptive way to address the stop/start exploit. The most serious problem was that it was granting 4x XP, which is a big exploit. That did have to be fixed. I just wish they could've found a less kludgy way to fix it.


Anyway, we'll keep after the devs on possible alternatives.
Sylune_heart
Sat May 01, 2004 4:39 am
#26

Until a change comes...or if it remains the same you will just have to alter the way things work in your routines. One of the things i have been doing now is using the droid as a space filler while i am switching instruments.


I talk to the droids be like "Hey R3 thats jammin! Keep it going buddy i am gonna switch instruments!


I have it set up so that when i am planning on an instrument change i created a script that bandflo's 4 times. When i see that message hit the system messages thats when i do /stopmusic


I stop playing and lil R3 keeps jammin. He will accept the bandflos stuffed like that...just like musicians can que flourishes in advance.



So at least he has that going for him. He keeps the pace going while i switch instruments. Or if i am switching to dancing he will jamm out 4 flourishes in a row i will run into a side room of the cantina while he flourishes and use the ui action commands to change into my dance clothes...then run back in and hop in just as he gets back to the main line of the song. Thereby restarting the bandflo script i have written for him.



Other then the things i mentioned about i am sure others have other things they do to make up the missing 'time" If you have ideas please submit them. This could be a good learning experience for us all if we can get some creativity flowing in here while the devs decided on what they should do if anything



Ceta


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