Musician Archive
Thread: Is Musician a mockery now???
NewJedi wrote:
JediTed225 wrote:
I hope the devs or NJ are reading this.
/salute! I'm here
I don't know about the devs, but I try to read every post in this forum.
I understand that some players don't want to pay $15/month to be a Musician -- fine by me. Such a person obviously isn't a Socializer; I am. If everyone wanted to be a Musician, that would bother me more, because then I wouldn't have any niche to fill.
The entertainer classes were (are?) one of the most significant innovations in SWG. For the first few months, I thoughtit worked pretty well: hardly anyone I knew AFK'd their way up to Master. (I didn't even have a macro on my hotkey bar!) Now it's a different story. Like you, I wish the devs had adopted a more interesting and involved system for acquiring the Jedi slot. And there are days when I wish they had never included a macro function at all.
All of which leads me to the broken record I have been playing for the devs for weeks: we Musicians need a greater variety of things to do. Quests (epic or otherwise), more interesting gig missions, new songs and instruments and effects, entertainer-oriented points of interest, NPC pets in our bands, gambling in cantinas, whatever. Of all those things listed, the only thing I can say with certainty is in development is new songs, and maybe better gig missions. That's good, but it's not enough.
NJ- plz don't take this as a flame in anyway but you said you sound like a broken record to the dev's... maybe try to change your tune a little... if I recall, you are a lawyer which means you can be very convincing im sure when "making a case" (if your not well ignore that part). Since we all spend a lot of time in this game, i suggest you "take on the case" and just write a 'opening statement' to them... if you want help, i am a salesperson and would be happy to help you with the pitch ... from what i have seen im sure kora and tiaga (hope i spelled that right) would be happy to help as well... maybe we need to present our argument in directly to them in a manor that gives them virtually no other choice but to start to implement some changes asap... its just a thought and again plz dont think im flaming you because i feel your doing all you can and a great job under the circumstances
Yes, sweatyclimber, I am a lawyer, so it's my job to present cases. That is what I try to do in the Correspondent forum: to draw attention to our plight through compelling argumentation rather than rants. In my experience, people in general (and these devs in particular) are more likely to respond to reason than out-of-control ranting. That said, my "reasoned arguments" have become a bit more passionate lately in that forum.
Thetopic of my latest post (put up yesterday) was dwindling "Musician morale" and the "need for more content." No reply yet. 
Anyway, I'm all in favor of a concerted effort to get dev attention. It may be that we need as much quantity as quality of posts. Post here, post in the entertainer forum, post in the development and concept forums, post everywhere. Maybe they'll finally notice.
Sooner or later I will step aside so that a different Musician's voice can take up the call. I've said all along that I'd like to at least stay until that promised batch of new songs appears. I thought they'd be here by now! But they're not. I've been delighted that the devs have been responsive to my bug reports -- the stuck Musician bug, stat bugs, buff bugs -- but disappointed that they haven't given us much content on my watch other than our buff and /denyservice. It would be nice to be able to say that I helped usher in new songs before retiring. 
)Is Musician a mockery now?
Well, is it? Perhaps. But how could such a groundbreaking class go downhill so fast? Perhaps the problem lies with the so-called ‘holotainers,’ or with the ‘macrotainers.’ Perhaps it has more to do with the general game mechanics than anything else…? Maybe it is just the attitude of those that rely on entertainers without realizing that they actually need entertainers. It could be a combination of all of the above, or even “secret answer #4.” Whatever that might be. Perhaps all we really need to do is whine as much as some of the other classes and hope to [insert deity here] that we get our way… But, perhaps a more in-depth look at these possible problems and a variety of solutions should be taken in the hopes that someone who is high enough up in the ranks of SOE to make a difference may see it.
Let’s take a look at what one of the most talked about ‘problems’ with the entertainer classes is: AFK Macros. Every entertainer knows about AFK Macroing by now, and most entertainers despise those who do it. Those who are dedicated to the profession(s) see this as a (near?) game breaking “feature” that was added in by the developers. There are some who subscribe to the NIMBY theory: It’s okay if it’s not in my backyard. ((Thank you, George Carlin)) And there are those who don’t see this as a problem at all. Though the majority of these people don’t see it as a problem because they’re off watching TV while their toon is macroing the night away…
Why is it such a problem? Considering commandos and pistoleers can do it by sitting on a thug spawn, why shouldn’t entertainers be able to do it, too? Well, for one, you don’t see pistoleers quitting the profession in droves because people AFK grind on thugs, right? But entertainers do quit, and are leaving in remarkable numbers at that. These afkers take up the prime cantinas in the galaxy, sit center stage, and act like an NPC designed to heal. Why would your average Joe Adventurer watch you, a live performer, over a macrotainer? What incentive is there to do so? Assuming the two players are of identical skill levels (say, 0040, Musician) then there is absolutely no reason not to watch someone who is AFK! Perhaps this is where the problem really lies- no incentive to be a live entertainer, and no incentive to watch a live entertainer. What can be done to provide an incentive? More XP if you aren’t running a macro? No healing XP if you’re AFK? Potentially good ideas, though they may be difficult to implement. Perhaps an incentive to leave the cantinas is what’s needed? Epic quests, better gigs, even live events that the live events team sets up specifically for the entertainers? All are good ideas, and all have been suggested before…
The big question to AFK Macros and ‘macrotainers’ is, of course, “what can be done to stop this?” This has become a big issue in the entertainment community, and many ideas have been raised about this. Removing the entertainment classes from the holo-grind options, decreased XP for afkers, there seems to be no end to the options and suggestions… However, the development team has given no word to us that this issue is even an issue to them, or that it’s even being looking into. That apparent lack of attention is, in itself, an issue here. However, due to the lack of significant numbers, it is doubtful that that may be resolved.
Perhaps the mechanics of the game are a possible fault here? Well, there are arguments on either side of this issue. The game hasn’t allowed the entertainers to do much more than play music or dance in a cantina, NPC or otherwise, and that in itself has us limited to great extent. Unlike medics and doctors, we have no real way of controlling who we heal- If we’re playing an instrument or dancing, anyone can heal from us and any given time. The deny service command in no way matches a medic’s control over who we heal and who we don’t… Even if one of us uses the command, there is no end of the macrotainers that’ll heal said person without realizing it—Again, because they’re off watching TV. While there’s no way of controlling who can hear our music, or see the cute lil dancer do her thing, that does not mean that we should be allowed, via game mechanics, to be treated like an NPC. Are there solutions to this? Well, perhaps… If AFK macroing were completely disallowed, we would see the hundreds upon hundreds of macrotainers fleeing the scene, leaving those who truly enjoy the professions in their stead… Heck—give us an epic quest, better entertaining gigs, live events, something to do other than sitting in a cantina trying to compete with players who aren’t even playing.
One of the biggest problems is, in my mind, the complete lack of respect we as a profession receive. We are treated like bots, NPCs, barely alive characters that exist solely to heal adventurers without compensation for our time… I’m sure throughout our careers most of us have heard something along these lines:
“Tip you? What for? You’re a musician, what could you possibly need money for?!”
In my own career, I’ve heard this countless times and it’s getting tiring. I’ve actually had adventurers demand that I play for them, telling me that it’s my job to do so, and should be expected to do it… Of course I tend to switch to a more menacing title and challenge them to a duel for insulting me, but that isn’t the point… We don’t demand that a medic heal us for free, we don’t demand that a pistoleer kill a creature for us, and if we, or anyone else did, they’d be laughed at… So why do adventurers think they can demand that we play or dance for them without compensation? And what can be done to change it? Well, I honestly do not know… Getting rid of the problems mentioned earlier in the post may be a solution—The entertainment population would drop drastically and those adventurers would have to look for an entertainer to heal his 600 bf and nearly all-black mind bar… That search alone could improve our image in the galaxy. We’d no longer be dime-a-dozen characters, and those who are Masters just might get more respect.
Are any of the solutions posted here new? No- they’ve been posted over and over again in one form or another, all over the various entertaining profession boards. But they have been ignored time and again by the development team. Perhaps fixing macrotainers is the solution… Perhaps changing the game mechanics involving the entertainment professions could make a difference. Giving us something to do? Finding a way to improve our image…? Perhaps… Perhaps Musician is a mockery, now. Perhaps not.
I apologise in advance for the minor hijack but I did want to respond to this: "Also they can nerf the combat medic Mind healing."
I think you might be misunderstanding something. It causes wounds to the combat medic every time they use it. The other character I play a lot is a combat medic. To give you an example of mind healing in action, I went out with a group doing enranged rancor missions on Dathomir. By the time we got to the last mission, I had to use fishak, vercupti and a muon gold just to get enough mind pool and regen to be able to just keep the people from dying. That's just from doing missions and healing mind when people get incapped. When we went back to the outpost for the next round of missions, I had almost 100 BF and in excess of 1500 points of wounds for an entertainer to heal. As an entertainer myself, I hardly see *that* as stepping on the toes of all entertainment professions. If anything, it's a boon for all the healing exp it gives.
I certainly wouldn't be against something that allows entertainers to heal mind damage as well as wounds. Be honest though. These classes were intended for people who prefer socializing. The reason a lot of us took up entertainer was because we did NOT want to *have* to go out hunting. Adding in mind heals isn't going to change the fact that the people who actually *want* to be entertainers most likely do *not* want to be out following a group and healing their minds.
NJ, thank you for the update. Entertainer morale is definately at a low. I myself am a hair's breadth away from turning in my master dancer title simply because dancing is no longer enjoyable with cantinas in the state they are. If I had wanted a game where all I group with are NPCs, I'd pick up the Baldur's Gate series or get the expansion packs for NWN and save myself $15 a month.
NewJedi wrote:
All of which leads me to the broken record I have been playing for the devs for weeks: we Musicians need a greater variety of things to do. Quests (epic or otherwise), more interesting gig missions, new songs and instruments and effects, entertainer-oriented points of interest, NPC pets in our bands, gambling in cantinas, whatever. Of all those things listed, the only thing I can say with certainty is in development is new songs, and maybe better gig missions. That's good, but it's not enough.
One thing that i think SWG lacks is Voice chat comunication.I think this is an esential part of the game play(especialy with combatants).I have seen other MMOGlike Planet Side(i believe is another SOE creation 
) has Voice chat integrated in the game.When i play 1s-person shooter games online, me and my friends useother programs to talk to each other while playing. Thats what i like about planetside(the only thing, i don't have it)you can talk to other people in the game world with out using a 3rd party program.
I think SWG could benefit from having integrated voice chat.Most of the entertainers i know(the real good ones)Have macroed there own personal songs that they sing at big events.It is a bit bland just reading the speach bubbles as they scroll up from the persons head. With voice chat however, someone could accualy SING their songs. Assuming they have goodvoices ofcorse.
LOL! It would be funny if SOE held a competition like American Idol called Galaxy Idol. They could pay Simon Cowell to come and be one of the judges. 
/blush @ famousFATWOOKIEE
Thanks for the mention, and I'd be glad to help out in whatever aspect, even if it were simply gathering all the pertinent posts mentioning AFK, holotainer, macro, or the like.
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closer to topic: I like macros, I think they are a powerfull tool that can be abused. I think a fix for AFK does not include removing the macro tool we currently have. I think Tiaga would agree on that, maybe he can comment.
Musician can be a very creative profession. It can be far more than the mechanics of playing songs and healing wounds.
I'm part of a band that plays in various player venues and we get paid by players to perform. Some audiances really sit and enjoy the performances and for others we are more background. Some players have made up their own lyrics that go with various songs. Some are quite funny. When these songs are combined with dancers doing various things, lights and costume changes, the entire thing can be quite fun to perform as well as watch.
I would certainly like to see more tools to make entertaining more fun and give players the ability to express the creativity in even more ways.