Musician Archive
Thread: Bored to death, feeling useless...
Actually, as near as I could tell, the vendor is run by Afys. But Shak'it made all the instruments.
I don't know your skill set, so I have no idea what you may or may not have to drop to run a vendor. To get the basic, Coke-machine looking ones, you have to have Business 3 in the Artisan skill tree. If you want an NPC vendor, you must be a Novice Merchant.
I still do not follow your argument that one vendor on the entire server is going to kill everyone else. It makes several assumptions:
- Every entertainer on the server knows the vendor exists.
- There is a large market for instruments.
- Shak'it will continue to sell instruments at those prices forever.
I'm no expert in instrument sales, and I don't claim to be. But I believe each of those assumptions above to be false. Instruments are a niche market. The sales of them are sporadic at best. How you can claim that a vendor with fewer than 40 items on it that has been up less than a week has completely destroyed the instrument market of an entire server is beyond me.
My skillset would be Master Musician, Master Entertainer, 0/4/1/2 Marksman, 2/1/2/2 Medic, 1/2/2/2 Dancer with 4 Skillpoints remaining, so to own a (NPC) vendor I'd have to drop atleast 2 of those to take up artisan and merchant.
If you really don't see why this will effect other instrument vendors then you really are a bad business man, and I was convinced you were not.
There's never much demand for instruments and there probably never will be either, unless people want them as decoration, and as soon as the first musician finds this vendor it will be known everywhere, word spreads fast and I know that is true because I was allready contacted for a few instruments since I shouted in a few places that we were opening a vendor. You say sales are low, just wait until the first musician finds it.
The whole reason this one vendor will have so much effect is because there barely is a instrument market, only Holo tainers will need them and they will always want the cheapest ones, I've had plenty experience with the cheap holotainers that spend half a million on a piece of armor but won't even tip 5 credits for being taught a master skill.
Anyway, I should be glad I found it last friday, before we invested more time and money into this, now I just need to get rid of all those worthless instruments.
Frag,
Although I appreciate the offer, I really have no desire to redo the past 2 months which now takes even longer because the healing xp is seriously crippled, although there's no reason for it, I tried a few times now and got myself purposely killed in my expensive healing outfit which is still 1000/1000, so there is absolutely NO clothes decay.
I know what Coronet is like, my last 2 weeks working on master musician was really hell there in Coronet / Anchorhead, everyone AFK, entertainers leaving because of AFK group leaders, people rude, inflicting mind disease and what not just to get there faster is not my idea of a fun game.
I must agree, giving buffs is a nice source of income, I don't go around spamming that I give buffs but every so often people ask me if I can buff them so I do and I get between 500 and 10.000 credits per buff.
5 gigs per weeks sounds pretty fun but at what times are these gigs ?
And I used to have lots of fun, I guess our server is just dying out, the fact that I haven't seen Salome since she made me Master Musician should've been a big enough hint not to mention the other 90% of my friendslist that never log on anymore.
I guess for a entertainer reaching Master means game over, end of fun, that's really too bad since I talked with other people about touring our galaxy but it's hard to tour with nobody around and the other guild musicians have their own priorities I guess.
What we need is something like a world pass, pay 20k for a one way trip to another server or something except you would keep your skills. Although I get the feeling from this board that most servers suffer from the same problems. /cry
But you never know, my account runs till 21/01/2004, maybe I'll make a alt somewhere which turns out to be fun.
A bad businessman?Okay. Let's go for a quick lesson in supply and demand.
Demand for instruments is low. As I see it, there are two reasons for this: (1) there are not many entertainers, and (2) you earn the cert to play a instrument before you can make it (which seems kind of strange, but that's SOE for you). Prices will therefore start somewhat deflated. Anyone who has instruments to sell will want to move them at a low, but reasonable price (the definition of "reasonable" will vary from person to person).
The only instrument that I've found which uses more than 100 resources is the nalargon, at 225 units of stuff. This means that virtually every other instrument is cheap to make from a resource perspective, because quality is irrelevant. If you WANT a quality instrument, that's your perrogative, but quality is not required (again, seems dumb, but talk to SOE). I know that when I made my fizzz, it only took me about 6 or 7 minutes of sampling wood to knock it out since I already had the metal on me.
So what we have is a class of item (instruments) that has low demand and is cheap to make. These factors keep prices low.
Right now, Shak'it has a bunch of instruments on his vendor for 100cr each. For slithers and fizzzes, that's probably pretty reasonable unless they're of high quality (I didn't look that closely). As you climb the entertainer and musician tree, it stands to reason that the instruments might be more expensive, but there is no rule that says they have to be, because again, many of them still require around 50 resources. I wouldn't personally price stuff above a fizzz that cheaply, but this stuff doesn't belong to me, so I really have no say.
You're telling me that every entertainer on the server will know about said vendor in short order. I am still forced to question that logic. But let's assume that you're right. In that event, one of two things will happen:
- The instruments will sell to entertainers who need them.
- The instruments will sell out quickly to one person who comes in and buys them specifically for re-sale (or simply to keep them off the market so their own vendor will prosper).
I'm still not convinced number would happen as fast as you seem to think. But, if I were in your shoes, my piss-poor business skills would have told me to go with number two, and clean out the vendor and then re-sell those instruments on my own vendor at what I felt they were worth.
Shak'it would have two possible responses to this: to continue selling instruments that cheaply, or to raise his prices. If he continued to sell them that cheaply, you could go right on buying them, and make a nice profit for yourself without ever having to do a bit of crafting. The worst he could do to prevent you from continually doing so would be to ban you from the cantina. If that happened, you could still send a friend in to clean him out from time to time and just sell the instruments to you at cost. In the end, he would eventually raise his prices, or he would simply quit making instruments. Either way you would have achieved your goal... you would be able to sell instruments at the price you wanted on your own vendor.
So I keep coming back to the point that if you want to run your own instrument vendor, there is not a damned thing preventing you from doing it other than your own inability to see the situation in front of you as a business opportunity instead of a roadblock.
I must really suck at this business thing.
Denisa,
Yes I do hear you on the pain of the current Coronet cantina situation. I was in there last night, and it was a quiet night...only 30 or so entertainers....though there was a group started around midnight, that the leader specifically said "hey....we're gonna be an AFK group". I thought that was weird, but whatever works for them. Yes the mind suicide game does happen, I even did it last night, but as I did, I was chatting with people, including a new player, new to the game, that I was trying to help out. As to buffs for income, well I don't need to at this point for the money. I also "hide" quite often under another profession title so as to not get the random buff inquirys. I have more than enough from people who know me, and I try to spread them around when other masters are present, but last night , for example, I did over 50K in buffs, and never spoke up about it other that a "hey, I can do that for you" to the people requesting them. Chilastra is not dying out, and especially not the Coronet cantina here.
As to the gigs...well 5 in a week would be good, but no, we have 5 over the next 3 weeks. Manywill bein the evenings US, but we also get afternoon gigs on weekends. I'm waiting on details (only 1 gig is solidand its in the evening), but I believe one wedding we have coming up laterwill bea 12 Noon EST ceremony on a weekend.
For the longevity of friends...well I don't think I'm going anywhere soon. The majority of the good friends I have made here have also been on for months, and I like to think that I make new freiends all the time. Yes people have dissappeared, from the cantina and the server, and I miss them. However there are still many live, good natured people here that I can stop mourning... pause...reflect ...and move on.
I'm not gonna try to sell you anymore. I hope you come and visit, and I'd hope that its nice enough that you'd consider staying, but there are inherent issues of schedule and the whole music grind again that I can understand being a problem. Hope you find that happiness you seek. I'll be in or around the cantina most evenings and often all weekend long. More than once I've caught european friends logging on in the morning...before I have had a chance to sleep.
Fragpuppie Uber
Master Musicain, Master Entertainer
Band Leader and Booking agent - Frag's Puppies
President & CEO - Fragpuppie Enterprises and Uber Instruments
Coronet, Corellia, Chilastra
Well, next time I see our guild manager I'll ask him again about the vendor, he mentioned it would be ready sometime last week but I haven't heard anything about it. And then I'll see if anyone actually buys some instruments.
But I find it funny that you're now telling me something to do that which you and other merchants are not happy with, re-selling of other people's items. I guess that has to do with the uselessness of what we can craft and the overall idea that entertainers are just, well, not a real profession.
But I wouldn't re-sell them, I would simply trash them and put my own instruments for sale on that vendor for my own prices.
The easiest way to escape dancer/musician boredom is creating another character on another server and play a totally different character. How about a wookie bounty hunter ? Human Architect ? Trandoshan Squad Leader ? Overt Imperial ? Overt Rebel ?
If you do one thing over and over, it will be boring. And SOE doesn't exactly help with fat content. Do something totally different for a day and you will enjoy your original character more 
I've never said people couldn't re-sell my stuff off my vendors if they wanted to. If they think they can get more for it, more power to them. One sure-fire way to determine you've priced something too cheaply is when someone comes in and buys 25 of them at a time. I've had this happen, and I've adjusted my prices accordingly until I hit an equilibrium I was happy with.
The only time I would be very upset at someone re-selling my work is krayt weaponry, but that is due to the way I handle orders for krayt firearms where the customer provides his own tissue. Luckily, this has never been a problem for me. I consider this to be a credit to the people on our server.
Best of luck to you with your instrument sales, and see you in the cantina soon. I'm going to take up the slitherhorn (and beyond)myself. =)
Blackrock wrote:
Jedi,
As much as I respect you, we have an issue here and your ummmm.... glazing the dounut.
[snip]
I know you cant do miracles, but if ya can move on an issue for a players using us as a bot, I'd say you can pursue this.
___________________________________________________________________
If by "this" you mean Musician boredom, then I can assure you: I have put more energy into "pursuing" that issue than any other.Of the couple dozen issues listed in my State of the Profession report,the most important -- the ones listed first --relate to this issue.I got these issues by polling you, the players. My "top issue," for example, is new songs. That's been the #1 issue for Musicians for months, according to my polling, and the devs know it. Trust me, they know. I've bugged them about itcountless times. A batch of new songsis, in fact,in active production. But I can't wave my wand and promise new songs tomorrow, and neither can the devs.If there's one thing I'd like to see implemented before I step down as Correspondent, it'snew songs.
Another improvement I've pushed for is better gig missions.I've stickied a thread asking for suggestions on how to improve them. I've summarized the thread for the devs; I've given them a link to it; I've discussed some of the specific suggestions with them on the Correspondent forum and live on Test Center. The Dancer and Entertainer Correspondents have undertaken similar efforts. But, as with songs, it's not a simple fix. The devs are interested not just in making these pay more, but in makingthem more fun.
Along the same lines, I've stickied a thread inviting suggestions on ways the devs might encourage at-the-keyboard play. Again, I've summarized the suggestions there for the devs,I've given them a link to the thread, and Ihave batted the issue back and forth with the devs in the Correspondent forum.
The devs are painfully aware that we Musicians want a greater variety of things to do. I remind them about that weekly. I just don't do so via public rants here; I do it in the Correspondent Forum, where I am much more likely to get dev attention. When I post there, I usually get a dev response within a couple days. I don't mind if you rant. It lends credibility to the steady stream of complaints and questions and requests I throw at the devs in the Correspondent forum.
I've never pretended there aren't issues with our profession. My State of the Profession report is chock full of problems that need to be addressed. In my reply to Denisa, I was just trying to suggest constructive ways she might relieve her boredom. I wasn't trying to say there are no problems with our profession.
Finally, I reject any suggestion that I should ignore a bug simply because it's reported by someone who's using a Musician as a "bot." A big part of my job is drawing the devs' attention to bugs. Every player pays for an account; every player deserves an answer. A couple weeks ago there were people who couldn't start playing music at all. It was just a handful of players, but a couple of them were ready to quit. I reported it to the devs, and within a week there was a hotfix. That's an important part of my job. And it's easier for the devs to address a focused issue like that -- a bug -- then a huge, sprawling problem like too much AFK'ing. That said, I've spent far more time on Denisa's issues -- content -- than on bug fixes. To me, the biggest issues with our profession are indeed Denisa's issues.
Jedi
I know your trying mon. Just having a player come here to state that they only use us for a buff bot and care less about the class other then that rankles me.
To further this your prompt attention to this is great but only facilitates furthering our viability as a ..."Bot". It does little to the class viability.
Plus I'm watching musician drop like Apples in September.
That is where I feel repeated replies are warrented.
Not some powergamer threatening to leave over their bot not keeping them powering.
-----Along the same lines, I've stickied a thread inviting suggestions on ways the devs might encourage at-the-keyboard play. Again, I've summarized the suggestions there for the devs,I've given them a link to the thread, and Ihave batted the issue back and forth with the devs in the Correspondent forum. ------
Are you telling me you have to convince the Devs on why not to allow afk play??
If they need convincing on such an obvious issue ,this offers very little hope for us.
LOL We are losing good musicians and your time is wasted convincing Devs to such an obvious issue.
I'm not surprised considering how they concocted the whole Holocron deal.
Buffs? ehh there ok but , unlike buffs in other games it doesnt get us grouped for hunting and is a service to the community.
We are a dieing breed and now Veterans of the professions take is ...play something else to stay sane.
This is certainly correct, but as we play other classes the class we liked, falls further and further into the realm of Bots.
What a shame.
Devs better wake up take a look at 2004 game releases, because they are killing this game.
Path to Jedi is a joke, being able to level classes afk is also weak. If they are defending AFK gameplay then all our discussions are a complete waste of time because they are long term blind.
Thanks for the reply
/regards!
Blackrock wrote:
Jedi
I know your trying mon. Just having a player come here to state that they only use us for a buff bot and care less about the class other then that rankles me.
To further this your prompt attention to this is great but only facilitates furthering our viability as a ..."Bot". It does little to the class viability.
[snip]
Are you telling me you have to convince the Devs on why not to allow afk play??
____________________________________________________________________
Yeah, I get rankled by that sort of thing too. I don't reply to the messages from Holotainers seeking powergaming tips. But if someone posts a bug,it is my job to respond to report it ASAP to the devs and track it down, because bugs affect everybody, not just the powergamers who discover them first.In fact, I've received about a dozensimilar reports about that particular bug now. I hear more about buff bugs than any other bug in this game -- though, as I said earlier, the issues I hear *most* about are Denisa's issues.
As for AFK, I guess I didn't make myself clear. The devs most certainlydon't need convincingthat at-the-keyboard play isimportant! Quite the opposite! The devs asked *me* tosolicit suggestions on how toencourage at-the-keyboard play. They are extremely interested in such suggestions. The challenge is coming up with positive suggestions for change that are feasibleto code and fun for us players.
NewJedi wrote:
As for AFK, I guess I didn't make myself clear. The devs most certainlydon't need convincingthat at-the-keyboard play isimportant! Quite the opposite! The devs asked *me* tosolicit suggestions on how toencourage at-the-keyboard play. They are extremely interested in such suggestions. The challenge is coming up with positive suggestions for change that are feasibleto code and fun for us players.
Okay, given: I'm jaded and bitter by now. That being said...I don't think a combination of the above things in bold are possible. The way Music is done is just too rigid. The desire to make our own combinations of notes, versus stringing together set bits, is never going to happen and I know it. Not only would everything have to be pulled apart and put back together in the Musician class, but Sony will never allow it on the grounds of copyright issues.
Pop-up windows would be Not Fun™for live performers.
New instruments and new songs take an awfully long time to incorporate, as you've said. And the shiny newness will wear off really quickly, due to the aforementioned inflexibility of the way our music is set up.
The one that I favor is met with too much bard-hater resistance by the development team. Give me something to do, as a part of my performing profession, out in the field. Wound Healing in a camp doesn't cut it. Give me support class options that I can pursue with a live hunting party. That's not what some performers want...but it's been brought up enough that it is what a good-sized portion of the profession might find interesting. At least as an option.
I think that's the crux of the problem. We don't have a whole lot of options. Various things to do while standing in a fixed spot in a Cantina are all just...standing in a cantina. We should have a variety of things to do within our own profession, not have to resort to taking up another one to relieve the boredom brought on by something that we orginally took up because we thought it would be fun, and have stuck with because we love certain aspects of it.
'Course that's just my opinion...I could be wrong. And often am. (That second bit is all me. Dennis Miller is never wrong! j/k)
Jedi
Thanks Mon, that makes me feel much better.
Sorry for the pounding of late.... you know the drill
We are lucky to have ye!