Musician Archive

codezor

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ok for 1 it takes atleast 10 minutes to get a full mind buff, who the hell in there right mind is going to sit at the computer and wait for everyone to get buffs.

let me ge this strait you want us to try to play without the mind buffs? becuase the masters are too good at what they do?, or you want us to pick up another profesion when we have hard enough time keeping the profs that we have... becuase of the lack of skill points

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Actually it takes 3 minutes and 30 seconds to apply a musician/dancer buff which is roughly the same as what a doctor can buff. Provided that we are buffed on action, quickness, and stamina which costs us money that we rarely have due to the combat professions stiffing us. Entertainers have an advantage over a doctor in that we can buff up to 19 other people at a time where a doctor can only buff one person at a time. Yup, you really know all about being an entertainer. /rolls eyes

The best analogy I can use is taken from a real world industry to compare entertainers to something real and tangible. An entertainer is just like a server/waiter/waitress, minor difference is that a real world server/waiter/waitress actually gets money from their employer, and they earn the bulk of their money from tips that come from their customers. If you are rude to a server you will get your butt tossed to the curb by the manager of the restuarant because you harassed an employee. You stiff a server and you go back to the same restuarant the other servers will remember what you did and will give you poorer customer service. On the other hand if you treat a server properly and you tip them the standard 15%, or more, of the check you will continue to get great customer service. Customer service will mean that you will get your food faster, waited on faster, and you will always get well attentive service from the server. Of course, this goes both ways and if the server fails to provide the highest quality service to you then you are not obligated to tip a lot of money, but you are still obligated to tip the bare minimum of 15%. If a server royally screws up then you can leave a one cent tip that gets the attention of the server to let them know they messed up. Leaving no tip is just rude and uncouth because that's what the other servers will think about you the next time you go in.

Most people do not understand how stressful and how much work it is to work in the service industry especially at peak times. The server will have usually 3-6 other tables, depending upon staffing for that day, and they will be trying to provide the best customer service they can. Average number of patrons during a lunch rush per table is right around 3 people and the average number of patrons during a dinner rush per table is 6. Now if you take into account the total number of people this one server has waited on and given customer service based upon the above figures you will find that they are taking care of 8-18 other people in a lunch rush and 17-36 other people in a dinner rush at any given time during a set block of time. The better the server the faster 'they can turn the table', ie get the customer out the door in the soonest amount of time, and the more people they can wait on. Usual times for table turn around is 10-15 minutes so if you take that into account with the above figures for serving patrons you will find that a server will have provided customer service to 32-72 other people based upon the 15 minute table turn around for lunch and 68-144 people at dinner time.

This is exactly how it works in SWG with entertainers and those of us at the keyboard are usually talking in spatial, group chat, guild chat, and tells all at the same time. During the peak times it can be really stressful on the entertainer, but they still do it because they love what they do. Now going back to the real life server do you really expect them to get by on $2.13 an hour for doing all of that work to satisfy your needs? Do you really expect entertainers in the game to get by on what they make from buffs, provided they can actually sell them? Any excuse you can think of to keep the buffbots in I can use against you and your profession making the same demands you make of entertainers. Since you've stated that you want entertainers to be available 23/7 I expect you Mr. hunting type to be out there 23/7 gathering resources from hunting to sell my doctor alt so she has a steady supply of medical resources. I don't want to hear your excuses about how you are physically unable to be there 23/7, but I still want you out there killing things to keep my doctor in resources so she can enjoy her game. Oh, you don't like that when the tables are turned against you well too bad because this is what and many other combat types have demanded of both docs and entertainers for the longest time. Do you really expect the local waiter/waitress at your favorite restuarant to work 23/7/365 just to service you? Of course not, because it's insane to think of such a thing. Just my two credits on what I think about what you said.

Denira Wyles

Master Dancer

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Padtai wrote:

However, as I said in my earlier post, my fear is what happens if the actual demand for mind buffs far exceeds the point where its fun to supply? For myself and many other doctors, we have hit this point and we're saying something needs to be done because our buffs are just too good and people want them too much that they feel they can't play without them. They've gone from useful aid to an addicting steroid, and we've gone from doctors to drug dealers. Anyway not every doc feels that way as many are just looking at the bank tips flowing in and are quite satisfied with the power being a doc gives right now. I hope this kind of intense demand is not something entertainers get because it probably would not be fun for you guys, especially for those of you who enjoy the conversation more than anything else. Do you really want to become ATK bots the way buffing docs sort of are (bank tip get in line, do not speak to me, no refunds, any regular tips are donations?). Whether that happens probably will depend on how in demand your buffs are. I have a feeling it won't be as bad since almost everyone gets doc buffs but not everyone feels they need mind ones (at least, not for ordinary pve hunting to supply crafting needs).

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I've never been one to shy away from this reality. I remember what it was like before buffbots. And, I remember that it was difficult for me to find a buff (technically, it still is, because I refuse to use buffbots.) And, I also remember being bombarded constantly for buffs and not being able to have a moment of peace. I was guilty of dropping my title from time to time so that I could do something besides buff.

So, yes, realistically, I have to say that demand outweighing supply was a serious problem, and I have no reason to believe that it won't be a problem if/when the buffbots are destroyed. Regardless, I'd rather be faced with this problem than have the buffbots. However, acknowledging the fact that it is a problem is something that a lot of folks don't want to admit. I would much rather we admit this, and try to find ways to make buffs available to people that directly benefits the live and true entertainer, rather than the afk player. I have made a few suggestions in the past, most notably the holovideos, but a lot of people are very much against this idea, so I try not to push for it too much. But, I do mention it from time to time when people such as yourself point out the reality of the situation.

And, really, it doesn't have to be holovideos, it could be something else for all I care. I just think it's important to acknowledge the problem and try to find ways to make everybody happy. And, no, I don't believe that buffs are necessary, and yes, I do want to preserve the sanctity of people coming into the Cantinas. And, it's a difficult task to resolve all of these issues into an effective compromise. However, I think it's important that we start thinking and talking about these things rather than turn a blind eye to them. Because, I guarantee you, I know what it's going to be like when/if the buffbots are gone. I want them gone. But, the consequences of them being gone are not going to be all completely rosy, despite what some people think.

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Tarnak_Archvold wrote:
Even since before I became a master musician I have been searchable, and now I always have my master musician tag up. Yet I have not revised one single tell from a person I did not know about buffs. Not one!
If somebody are unwilling to take even the effort of using the build in system to search for a master musician then they have no reason to complain. As for demand outstripping supply, it only does that if there are cure in front of every buffing entertainer, you know like there are in front of doctors.

No, I think it would be all together better if mind buffs was removed for all entertainers. Give them to doctors and let the combaters pay twice as much to get buffed up.

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Just a reminder.... The built in search systems are broken. Search (from the character screen), and /who work very sporadically, and /register is broken.

Ifthese features werefixed, there would probably be a lot less opposition to the elimination of Buff Bots.

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Straker_Atrella wrote:

Saying "Well take up an Entertainer then!" is not fair and you know it. You choose to play your way, others choose to play theirs. People being forced to change professions isn't the right idea.

If the development of the new FS village is any indication, the devs seem to very much believe that forcing people to change professions is the right idea. Try doing anything in the village being a pure entertainer. But to make a complaint to you, rather than to the devs, I don't see what's so different from that argument than what people are doing with buffbots right now. They took up entertainer with their alts, and set them free. The only thing if/when buffbots are removed is they can't set them free. So they'll log them on when they need them and log them off when they're done. And if you (general you, not you specifically) can't/don't want to afford the 15 dollars a month for an alternate account, well then looks like you'll be looking to make some friends in the entertainment community.

"You don't need buffs," that is your opinion, everybody has a right to their own. When people log into the game, they have the RIGHT to do what they planned on doing. Dragon hunting, PVP, cash missions, Nightsister hunting, questing, whatever. They have plans, they should be able to do them. It IS much easier to do any of those things with buffs. You may enjoy a challange, others may not.

It's not an opinion that you do not need buffs to play the game. I've logged in many times, and not been booted or crashed because I didn't have buffs. It's a simple fact, you don't need them to play the game. You just mentioned, in fact, that it is easier to do these things with buffs. Easier implying possible without buffs. And if you have a right to buffs in the game, then I have a right have several stronger combatants than I come with me anytime I feel like going to the corvette. They ought to be waiting for me at the departure point, ready to go. I feel like going tomorrow night in fact, so I'll be happy to exercise my right and **edit** about it on the respective combatant forums if it's not provided for me. The 'I have a right to buffs' is the stupidest argument I hear, and is the real reason I'm posting this reply at all.

I totally empathize with the problems that buffbots make for Entertainers. I just hope that problem can be fixed without impacting the fun of others.

Here's hoping.

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Aleyo wrote:

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Straker_Atrella wrote:

Saying "Well take up an Entertainer then!" is not fair and you know it. You choose to play your way, others choose to play theirs. People being forced to change professions isn't the right idea.

If the development of the new FS village is any indication, the devs seem to very much believe that forcing people to change professions is the right idea. Try doing anything in the village being a pure entertainer. But to make a complaint to you, rather than to the devs, I don't see what's so different from that argument than what people are doing with buffbots right now. They took up entertainer with their alts, and set them free. The only thing if/when buffbots are removed is they can't set them free. So they'll log them on when they need them and log them off when they're done. And if you (general you, not you specifically) can't/don't want to afford the 15 dollars a month for an alternate account, well then looks like you'll be looking to make some friends in the entertainment community.

"You don't need buffs," that is your opinion, everybody has a right to their own. When people log into the game, they have the RIGHT to do what they planned on doing. Dragon hunting, PVP, cash missions, Nightsister hunting, questing, whatever. They have plans, they should be able to do them. It IS much easier to do any of those things with buffs. You may enjoy a challange, others may not.

It's not an opinion that you do not need buffs to play the game. I've logged in many times, and not been booted or crashed because I didn't have buffs. It's a simple fact, you don't need them to play the game. You just mentioned, in fact, that it is easier to do these things with buffs. Easier implying possible without buffs. And if you have a right to buffs in the game, then I have a right have several stronger combatants than I come with me anytime I feel like going to the corvette. They ought to be waiting for me at the departure point, ready to go. I feel like going tomorrow night in fact, so I'll be happy to exercise my right and **edit** about it on the respective combatant forums if it's not provided for me. The 'I have a right to buffs' is the stupidest argument I hear, and is the real reason I'm posting this reply at all.

I totally empathize with the problems that buffbots make for Entertainers. I just hope that problem can be fixed without impacting the fun of others.

Here's hoping.

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I 100% agree that Entertainers being left out of the loop in the new Jedi system is just plain wrong.

Read what I said about needing buffs again. I didn't say buffs were a "right,"I said that people have a right to do what they want when they log into the game. If you want to do the Corvette you should be able to, if you want to hunt Nightsisters, you should be able to. Just like if you want to log in and make music with friends in the Cantina, that is your right to do so. That is what each person pays their money for.

The key difference is that your making music isn't reliant on anybody else, so you can have your fun. You CAN'T kill Nightsisters without buffs, you CAN'T do the Corvette without them, and etc. Yes perhaps without mind buffs, but you do need some form of buffs. Not having Mind buffs would make it a lot less "fun."

Having fun is a RIGHT, that is what people pay for.

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fett3041 wrote:

Having fun isNOT a right. Nowhere on the SWG:AGD box is there a 'fun guarantee'.Even playing the game for which we pay, is a privilege which may be taken away (Remember the credit dupers? I'm sure they felt they had the right to their fun as well).

But let's say we do have the 'right' to persue fun in the game. That 'right' only extends until it infringes on another's 'right' to the same. Buffbots are a direct infringement on Entertainers' gameplay, source of income, and 'right' to fun.

But now you say you are entitled to do what you want in the game. I disagree. You are entitled and encouraged to try a lot. However, there are some things that we as players were never meant to do. We were never meant to solo krayts, NS elders, the corvette, nor even Janta/Mokk missions. The fact that people are doing so, is the direct cause of the combat 'rebalance' that is looming in the near future.

Your fun in the game is not reliant on anyone else, either. This is the gameplay that YOU CHOOSE. You are perfectly able to go out and hunt, for fun and profit, and kill things that are within your skill lvl. We, however, ARE reliant on other players as a source of income. Granted, we could run entertainer missions, however the 200 -400 credit payout is not cost efficient for the time it takes us out of the cantina and away from the few tipping patrons.

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Fun is what you PAY for. if you don't have the ability to have fun, why pay? Go play another game that you can. Who said anything about Soloing Elders, Dragons, or the Corvette? I didn't. Especially since all of them got their special attacks back, they are plenty tough, even in a group. Take 10 people into the Corvette without mind buffs, see how long you last.

You say that buffbots infringe upon your fun as an Entertainer. I agree, provided the Entertainer is there. Yes on some servers, live performers may be fighting over he same turf, and I honestly feel that anybody who sets up an afk buffbot where a real live Entertainer is performing, they should be possibly banned for griefing. The problem is that on some server, Scylla for example, you simply can't find live Entertainers. People got tired of either not finding any Entertainers, or when they found them, they would only buff their friends. So after enough headaches, they got a second account and made buffbots. Buffbots don't grief people who are not there.

Yes you are reliant on Combatents for money,Entertainer missions don't pay enough. Yet whether you agree or not, combatents are plenty reliant on Entertainers as well.