Musician Archive
Thread: Combat balance concerns
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Chalame
Thu Sep 09, 2004 11:07 am
#14
NewJedi wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I wish Novice Medic weren't required for our tree in the village. But I don't think requiring us to haveit is such a big deal. If you're going to be running to and from the village on Dathomir, don't you want Novice Medic anyway? An entertainer can easily afford the skill points with anytwo entertainer masteries. With 3, you can barely afford it, but you can still afford it.
I do agree that medics and doctors play an increasingly more important role than we do. That worries me. We'll see, though, what the combat revamp brings...
No, I don't want to have medic anyway.
Why are you an entertainer? Don't you want to be a medic anyway?
Do those questions soudn right or fair? I ask not to flame, but to show you how your justification sounds to me. Can you see what I am talking about, this situation is the devs saying to us, "why should we put in entertainer stuff in the force village, don't the entertainersjust want to be medics anyway?"
What are we, Med school dropouts? There are no dentists here (no offense to dentists).
Yes, balance the combat, but at the same time, balance the content representation in SWG.
-Cian Thurio
Master Musician-Ahazi
"The Force finds you, you do not find the Force." - me
NewJedi
Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:07 pm
#15
Again, I agree that it would've been better had their been Ent quests in the village. I personally am more annoyed that our FS skill is so lame. I've registered both objections. The devs have taken note of the objections and made it clear nothing is likely to change anytime soon. Cian, Echinacea and I agree on all that.
But Echinacea, I guess I don't follow. With Master Musician, Master Swordsman, Novice Scout plus two boxes in Scout, you still have 32 skill points left -- more than enough to take Novice Medic, plus some other skills. Maybe you left out a skill you have. Do you also also have Master Entertainer? In that case, you could just drop Scout for a week, pick up Novice Medic, unlock the branch, then pick up Scout again. Look, I agree that it's an annoying inconvenience. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree about *how* annoying an inconvenience it is. In the grand scheme of things, it's hard for me to rant to the devs that Musicians are upset that they have to take Novice Medic. I can do it if there's a groundswell of complaints about that in my top-five list, but so far I'm not seeing it. My ent friends in-game don't seem upset about it.
Also, Echinacea, if you have those combat skills, surely you have an interest in being a Jedi? If so, then you probably don't want most of the skills unlocked by entertaining anyway, do you? I see melee defense, ranged defense, melee accuracy, and crafting as all more important to the life of a Jedi. Or is it that you just want the FS skill of improved wound healing? Or is it just symbolic -- the sense that we've been "dissed" once again? Symbols do matter, and I don't like being passed over either. But I have to pick my battles, and I'll pick them based on what people cite in their top-five lists. So far only 3 or 4 people cite this.
Here's my take: I hate grinding in any form, but I especially hate the idea of grinding entertainment. That to me is a contradiction in terms. Even if there were entertainer grinding quests, I probably wouldn't do them. I'd prefer to heal or do combat patrols or something else. Also, I wonder if the devs were worried that people would AFK-macro any ent quest. I don't know what the medic's healing quest is like, but my hope is that it's not the sort of thing that can be AFK-macro'd. Don't get me wrong, that doesn't excuse the devs for failing to come up with interesting Ent quests for us at the village. But then again,a common complaint is thatthe devs also failed to come up with interesting quests for anyone else.
Message Edited by NewJedi on 09-09-2004 04:10 PM
LyteFoot
Fri Sep 10, 2004 6:26 am
#16
No offense NewJedi but you best look around. Not only is entertainer the easiest profession to AFK it is, right now as I type, becoming THE profession for grinding xp to convert to FS points. I've already encountered 3 people I know are doing it through their own admission. The number of AFK entertainers had started dropping just as I took up the trade because pub 9 was out and pub 10 was close. Since pub 10 they have gone back up drastically on Corbantis so I suspect there are a lot of others doing the XP grind I don't know about.
As for wanting or using medic skills, I have no points. I'm personally not interested in the quests so it isn't an issue right now. However I'm a master rifleman who makes his living by harvesting and its a good living. I'm mastering ent and musician for the pure fun it brings to the game. I'm also doing them ATK (although this ID tree is killing me). I don't have the points to take novice medic, in fact I dropped that to start the entertainer tree. I could easily afford to drop my scouting skills for a couple of weeks but why should I have to? I'm already dropping the as low as I can and getting a harvesting droid to make up the difference.
I personally did musician for two reasons, to spend time with a dancer friend and to have fun. I've since found that flirting with the ATK ladies and trying to compose real songs is just more icing on the cake. It isn't my source of virtual income but if it were then the current situation with having to exchange skills just so I can do the village would push me away completely. It will get to where the only people with the FS skills are also the only people with +25 clothing, the buff-bots.
NewJedi
Fri Sep 10, 2004 7:29 am
#17
Lytefoot, I have indeed seen that some people see Entertainer XP as the easy route to unlock some branches. You can get four of six branches unlocked that way. I think that supports the basic point I've been making: yes, we should have entertainer quests in the village, but it's not like we've been completely ignored. I'd rather have the current configuration than the opposite, in which entertainer quests unlock, but combat XP is required to fill the trees. Filling the trees is the biggest challenge.
And yes,it may be that onereason the devs didn't give us both quests AND conversion XP is that they're worried that everyone will flock to 24/7-AFK-entertaining as the quickest way to make Jedi.
But Lytefoot, if people are using Ent XP to unlock four of six trees, they're gimping themselves! A Jedi is a combat character, like it or not, and the Senses skills are almost entirely worthless to such a character. Surveying? Persuasion? Luck -- a small increase in cash drops from mobs? Entertainer healing for a Jedi? I've been a Jedi on TC2, at various levels: they need all the help they can get, since you don't have the skill points to get all the Jedi skills. You need good FS skills as well. Of the four trees, the Senses line is easily the least useful for a Jedi.
Warryyr
Fri Sep 10, 2004 7:37 am
#18
NewJedi wrote:
Lytefoot, I have indeed seen that some people see Entertainer XP as the easy route to unlock some branches. You can get four of six branches unlocked that way. I think that supports the basic point I've been making: yes, we should have entertainer quests in the village, but it's not like we've been completely ignored. I'd rather have the current configuration than the opposite, in which entertainer quests unlock, but combat XP is required to fill the trees. Filling the trees is the biggest challenge.
And yes,it may be that onereason the devs didn't give us both quests AND conversion XP is that they're worried that everyone will flock to 24/7-AFK-entertaining as the quickest way to make Jedi.
But Lytefoot, if people are using Ent XP to unlock four of six trees, they're gimping themselves! A Jedi is a combat character, like it or not, and the Senses skills are almost entirely worthless to such a character. Surveying? Persuasion? Luck -- a small increase in cash drops from mobs? Entertainer healing for a Jedi? I've been a Jedi on TC2, at various levels: they need all the help they can get, since you don't have the skill points to get all the Jedi skills. You need good FS skills as well. Of the four trees, the Senses line is easily the least useful for a Jedi.
Perhaps instead of gimping our chances of participating in the Jedi process, the Devs could have done something productive for us, and for the health of our professions, and just GOTTEN RID of the 24/7 AFK entertaining problem.
I'm growing weary of them letting this slide - because no matter what they do, the problem gets worse and worse. By the time they "bother" with us, things will SUCK for Entertainers.
I avoid NPC cantinas now because I get so irritated with the levels of AFK there. I'm also tired of rejecting out-of-the-blue group invites, and having people yell orders at me, treating me like a servant. When people get used to talking to Entertainer players like they're NPC's, boy does it make it a fun time for those of us who PLAY the game.
The whole situation's out of control.
NewJedi
Fri Sep 10, 2004 7:55 am
#19
Actually, some people say they've noticed a modest improvement in the AFK plague over the past few weeks. (See the separate thread on the issue here in the forum.) I'm not sure I see a big difference on my server, but you might want to check out that thread, FWIW.
Anyway, the devs have now committed themselves to stopping buffbots and other forms of unattended gameplay. Sure, they should've done so months ago. Better late than never, I say. And now that they've committed to it, I'd rather they take the time to do it right. Also, removing the recursive macro is obviously going to tick off a large segment of the playerbase. Politically, it maymake some sense to do this while people are preoccupied with Jedi and JTL instead of holding up those goodies for what many players regard as a giant intolerable nerf.
And did you see Lytefoot's post to me about how people see Entertainer as the *easy* way into Jedi? You can grind your way to 4 of 6 treesby playing your horn, once you unlock the branches -- andso far unlocking seems to me less of a big deal than the grinding itself. Yes, I agree that we should have ent missions in the village. But I'd rather have the current configuration -- non-Ent missions to unlock, Ent grinding of millions of Ent XP to fill trees -- than the opposite.
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