Musician Archive
Thread: Combat balance concerns
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LyteFoot
Mon Sep 06, 2004 4:47 am
#1
I haven't seen this mentioned and want to make sure someone addresses the issue in the sandbox.
It has been stated that new invisible pools will be used for specials. These are to prevent you from draining your HAM when using specials and prevent the specials pool from being buffed so you have to be more selective in their use. Now this is fine for combat, it makes the activity a challenge and adventure. I often hunt without buffs so I can't spam the world with strafe 2.
As a musician this simply is going to kill me. I use accarragm regularly. I'm composing several songs and some are 3 or more minutes in length. With only 9 unique sounds for any one song (counting the base sound) flourishes are where the variation occurs. I flourish heavily in my songs and not being able to enhance my action pool to manage this will destroy any ability to actually make real and enjoyable music.
It has been stated that new invisible pools will be used for specials. These are to prevent you from draining your HAM when using specials and prevent the specials pool from being buffed so you have to be more selective in their use. Now this is fine for combat, it makes the activity a challenge and adventure. I often hunt without buffs so I can't spam the world with strafe 2.
As a musician this simply is going to kill me. I use accarragm regularly. I'm composing several songs and some are 3 or more minutes in length. With only 9 unique sounds for any one song (counting the base sound) flourishes are where the variation occurs. I flourish heavily in my songs and not being able to enhance my action pool to manage this will destroy any ability to actually make real and enjoyable music.
Tarnak_Archvold
Mon Sep 06, 2004 7:14 am
#2
The "special moves pool" are suppose to regenerate much faster then the current ham pools, witch would actuarially make it easier on us entertainers.
SinnAsyr
Mon Sep 06, 2004 5:33 pm
#3
Tarnak_Archvold wrote:
The "special moves pool" are suppose to regenerate much faster then the current ham pools, witch would actuarially make it easier on us entertainers.
Yay maybe I wont have to get buffed to play music so much
NewJedi
Mon Sep 06, 2004 7:53 pm
#4
This is certainly one thing we'll be testing in the combat revamp "sandbox." In fact, when the time comes for the sandbox, I plan to post a new thread asking Musicians precisely what we testers should be looking out for. But I'm going to hold off on that until we first know who will be testing, and we Correspondents are still futzing around with that.
LyteFoot
Tue Sep 07, 2004 5:29 am
#5
Thanks NewJedi. I realize these invisible pools are supposed to regen faster but they are also not supposed to regen fast enough that you can simply spam combat specials. Either they will need to make the cost difference between combat and entertainer specials very different in size or allow us some way to enhance our pool.
Even forgetting any attempts at making real music you think people will want mind buffs if it takes 20 minutes per again? Especially if these buffs are no longer impacting the very pool that is drained for specials. It sounds like the new hidden pools may kill one benefit entertainer has for the combat only players. I guess they should go ahead and remove BF and mind wounds as well so those of us that actually enjoy this profession can spend our time uninterupted in the cantinas 
Warplex
Tue Sep 07, 2004 7:30 pm
#6
Actually, if they got rid of the buff, then I think quite a few of our main problems would be solved.
LyteFoot
Wed Sep 08, 2004 4:48 am
#7
Possibly true but it then removes any necessity to interact with an entertainer since heals are totally passive (i.e. click, listen, leave). I got into the craft to spend time with a dancer friend never expecting to enjoy it so much. I would hate to see the values the craft has to non-musicians slowly disappear.
Warryyr
Wed Sep 08, 2004 7:30 am
#8
I'm fairly sure our skills will still be in demand, and the need for our buffs won't be altered too dramatically.
The special moves bar might not be buffable (we don't know that yet) but the main HAM will still be buffable- and people are still going to want that HAM buffed. It gives you an edge, and the combat folks like that.
This is only a hunch, but I suspect the reason why our buff things (well, and our professions in general) won't be changing much with the Combat Revamp is because our buffing system is more in-line with what the Devs intended.
There's two buffing systems in the game right now. Why, I have no idea. There's the type of system that gives you a flat increase to your HAM (like Doc buffs, +2400 for 3 hours) and there's our buffing system (a percentage of the customer's HAM).
So, right now a human with 400 Health and Action, and 1100 Mind would get 2200 Mind by buffs from a Master Dancer, but with a Doc buff they'll get about 2800 Health and Action total. With some brandy, all HAM bars are essentially at equal levels.
I'm suspecting that with the Combat Revamp, the human would end up with maybe 800 Health and Action, and 2200 Mind. In other words, a Stat Migration will be necessary to even out the HAM. So, the HAM levels will generally lower overall. Coupled with an adjustment to weapon damage and creature damage, as well as creatures' HAM levels, players would see a bit more challenge since they can't have god-like HAM anymore, but they'll still be relatively comfortable. Healing will be a much more important role in the game after this, I think.
Given that players will take more damage in general, that means we'll be needed just as much as ever to heal up battle fatigue and mind wounds.
It IS very important to eye our role in all of this carefully, though - to make sure our gameplay is still relevant and our place makes sense in the new world of combat.
Warryyr
Wed Sep 08, 2004 7:38 am
#9
Oh yeah...
The use of flourishes and how that's handled will be of much interest to all of us Entertainers. If I end up playing in the sandbox, it'll be one of the first things I'll try to understand. I only hope they have instruments on that Blue Frog 
Of course, they do have resources, so I could always build some...
Of course, they do have resources, so I could always build some...We may still use our Action bars for performing, who knows.
Perhaps only weapon/combat specials will affect the specials bar. Ours are in a whole other category in CTRL+A, so maybe there will be a difference between our flourishes and a rifleman's HeadShot2 or a TKM's SpinAttack2. As it stands right now, we all feed off the same pools.
We may stay functioning the way we are (which would make sense sort of, we tire ourselves out) whereas the combat people might be utilizing this new special moves HAM bar.
I guess patience is the best thing right now, soon enough we'll see how this is playing out, and then we can be concerned if things look not quite right.
Keep the subject alive, though - many many folks are interested in this very subject, I'm sure.
Cudayn
Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:39 am
#10
I did go build a Master Entertainer / Master Musician /Master Pistoleer when they opened up the Jedi tests to everyone. I built one instrument, a Mandoviol. 
But I guess I shouldn't be saying stuff like that here since a lot of people only have Master Musician
I am very, very interested in how the Devs will, or will not change us. Are we going to have such a drastic change that mind buffs will no longer be needed, thus eliminating our buffs totally? Which i would be all in favor of, if they would crank up the ent mission payouts and stop them from being the cosmic joke they are now.
Ah well, all in good time
Durney Kova
Master Entertainer / Master Musician / Master Image Designer / Novice Dancer
Warryyr
Wed Sep 08, 2004 9:20 am
#11
Cudayn wrote:
I did go build a Master Entertainer / Master Musician /Master Pistoleer when they opened up the Jedi tests to everyone. I built one instrument, a Mandoviol.
But I guess I shouldn't be saying stuff like that here since a lot of people only have Master Musician
I am very, very interested in how the Devs will, or will not change us. Are we going to have such a drastic change that mind buffs will no longer be needed, thus eliminating our buffs totally? Which i would be all in favor of, if they would crank up the ent mission payouts and stop them from being the cosmic joke they are now.
Ah well, all in good time
Durney Kova
Master Entertainer / Master Musician / Master Image Designer / Novice Dancer
From what Panthu (Dancer Correspondent at the Corr Summit) said, our game will not change really at all. Hopefully we'll remain a valid part of the game community, and won't get pushed aside by lack of inclusion in the design framework.
Only time will tell.
I have little to no idea why, but I doubt Entertainer mission payouts will every increase. The Devs seem to think it's a wonderful and fun time for Entertainers to SPEND about 100 credits each mission in order to complete it. Nothing like making -5000 credits after a bunch of mission runs!
Chalame
Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:57 pm
#12
I think if we are not careful during this run in the sandbox, our needs might be totally ignored in the revamp all together, like they werewith the Force Village.
Can't you all see?The Devs are slowly transferring ourabilities to medics. That is why you have to be at least Novice Medic to unlock the only FS branch that has entertainer benefits in it.
To quote Ice-T, another talented musician, from the movie Johnny Neumonic...
"Snatch back your brain zombie!"
Guys and Gals, we gotta wake up or we are going to lose all our abilities to medics or npc bands like in Jabba's palace. Please post info about the test phase all over the forum, and in game. We need to get a big turnout of entertainers so the devs will start treating us like a legitimate class. I don't think they believe there are any real entertainers anymore because of all the bots and our quiet forum. Let's alert them to our existence. I wanna test! I wanna be loud! I wanna play!
To quote another fun movie, "Who's coming with me?"
-Cian Thurio
Master Musician-Ahazi
"The Force finds you, you do not find the Force." - me
NewJedi
Wed Sep 08, 2004 3:30 pm
#13
Don't get me wrong, I wish Novice Medic weren't required for our tree in the village. But I don't think requiring us to haveit is such a big deal. If you're going to be running to and from the village on Dathomir, don't you want Novice Medic anyway? An entertainer can easily afford the skill points with anytwo entertainer masteries. With 3, you can barely afford it, but you can still afford it.
I do agree that medics and doctors play an increasingly more important role than we do. That worries me. We'll see, though, what the combat revamp brings...
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