Musician Archive
Thread: No string instrument for me?!?!
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Maisland
Sat Mar 05, 2005 4:00 pm
#14
Um... the Tech boxes allow you to CRAFT Instruments... not play them.
ArcadyHerigorn wrote:
At 3:00am I Mastered Musician and couldn't wait to get back to the Cantina and play the Mondovial and my new song. I get back and find that the instrument that I was suppose to be able to play in Music Tech 3 (I think) I still didn't have the "skill" to play. Ok I have no problem with Master Entertainers having a special instrument and/or special song. What gets me is the misleading way this instrument was on the skill page for Master Musician. Why is it part of the skills promised when you complete the skill box if a Master can't play it?
ChiiTWINS
Sat Mar 05, 2005 5:49 pm
#15
Arcady, I'm sorry hun, but in this instance all I can say is, read the manual.
Everyone else had to figure out what the symbols mean somehow. Or at LEAST, ask someone else who's knowledgable about the subject.
Honestly, it should be intuitive, when the *Knowledge* tree has been the tree *all along* granting you songs and instruments, that the Tech tree would not miraculously develop an instrument certification for you.
Everyone else had to figure out what the symbols mean somehow. Or at LEAST, ask someone else who's knowledgable about the subject.
Honestly, it should be intuitive, when the *Knowledge* tree has been the tree *all along* granting you songs and instruments, that the Tech tree would not miraculously develop an instrument certification for you.
omadnay
Sat Mar 05, 2005 7:29 pm
#16
In all fairness, that is a valid complaint.
I didn't think so at first, but once you said about how there's no information about what that symbol means... I remembered what it was like to not know that at first as well.
I mean, it is harsh to have not learned this before you reached Musician Skills... were you AFK-ing up the profession?
I can honestly remember asking everyone what a +afizz was.
I figured it was a slightly differently tuned/pitched fizz. Hehe
Of course, that was a couple of days after the game launched, but still... a noob is a noob.
We've all been there and it's really easy for us to forget some of the silly things we thought and did.
About reading the manual, hehe, I agree with you there.
I don't think many other people do, unfortunately.
That was the only good thing about The day the game launced. For those that weren't there... The sign-up servers were borked and none of us could get in for the better part of the day, so I read the whole manual from cover to cover.
Not that the manual is the best place for information (Many things were changed or altogether incorrect), but we all know too many people didn't even bother to learn the basics.
Anyhoo... that's the way it is Arcady.
I've been a musician longer than anyone else on my server and I can tell you, every new member that joins our profession seems to only say the same things we said back then.
So, it's funny to see new people coming here and saying the same things.
Funny in a sad kind of way.
- Omadda Szool
Kauri
May the force be with you.
I didn't think so at first, but once you said about how there's no information about what that symbol means... I remembered what it was like to not know that at first as well.
I mean, it is harsh to have not learned this before you reached Musician Skills... were you AFK-ing up the profession?
I can honestly remember asking everyone what a +afizz was.
I figured it was a slightly differently tuned/pitched fizz. Hehe
Of course, that was a couple of days after the game launched, but still... a noob is a noob.
We've all been there and it's really easy for us to forget some of the silly things we thought and did.
About reading the manual, hehe, I agree with you there.
I don't think many other people do, unfortunately.
That was the only good thing about The day the game launced. For those that weren't there... The sign-up servers were borked and none of us could get in for the better part of the day, so I read the whole manual from cover to cover.
Not that the manual is the best place for information (Many things were changed or altogether incorrect), but we all know too many people didn't even bother to learn the basics.
Anyhoo... that's the way it is Arcady.
I've been a musician longer than anyone else on my server and I can tell you, every new member that joins our profession seems to only say the same things we said back then.
So, it's funny to see new people coming here and saying the same things.
Funny in a sad kind of way.
- Omadda Szool
Kauri
May the force be with you.
ArcadyHerigorn
Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:12 am
#17
Bah, you guys are right, I never even thought about the manual. But as I said I didn't think there was a need since I assumed it would grant me the skill. I sitll think that anything and everything should be as consicely and logically written. But that is just me. And don't talk about intuitive or Tech trees or symbols meaning something cause if they don't make sense, then they don't. And I did try to find out and even submitted a ticket to learn why i didn't have the skills to play it when i first assumed I could. When no one I asked knew and my ticket went unresponded too I just kept working on it to finish mastering. I figured then, as a master, I would have done just that MASTERED.
No Omadda, I actually did the entire grind as if it were a combat prof, thats why I was leader many times while i did this. Yes there were times I was nearly brain numb from the lack of excitement and a couple times I bounced back and forth to my main for short periods of time...but I can say I did it mostly ATK.
And as far as it goes I am glad I did Master and my disappointment of not being able to play the Mandovial isn't that great. It is one of the funnest things I can say I do in the game playing in the Cantina. It has brought me more friends and I get to find out many peoples oppinions on many aspects of the game.
Omadda deep respect for your accomplishment.
omadnay
Sun Mar 06, 2005 8:52 am
#19
ArcadyHerigorn wrote:No Omadda, I actually did the entire grind as if it were a combat prof, thats why I was leader many times while i did this. Yes there were times I was nearly brain numb from the lack of excitement and a couple times I bounced back and forth to my main for short periods of time...but I can say I did it mostly ATK.And as far as it goes I am glad I did Master and my disappointment of not being able to play the Mandovial isn't that great. It is one of the funnest things I can say I do in the game playing in the Cantina. It has brought me more friends and I get to find out many peoples oppinions on many aspects of the game.Omadda deep respect for your accomplishment.
Cool Arcady, I'm glad you enjoy it somuch
Sorry about the AFK question... was just checking (Forgot about your earlier comment about being ATK).
Yeah, there is much fun to be had, and even though most of my comments are criticizing certain elements of this profession...I just take it as understood by all, that the fact that I am still a Master Musician is indication enough that I love it.
At times I just feel a bit of a love/hate relationship with it
Other times I don't mind at all.
To be honest, this thread just reminded me of how strongly I disagreed with the mandoviol/ceremony design in the first place, and reassured me how I still feel about it.
It's been a long while since I argued about the topic of this thread.
- Omadda Szool
Kauri
May the force be with you.
Mentalbug
Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:30 am
#20
M_Fechter wrote:As a musician who did not master entertainer, but hopes to master Musician before SOE releases EQ8 in 2026, are there no string instruments I can play?I found out today that the mandolovi (or what ever its called) is only for master Entertainers. BS I say! I want a string instrument.Any hint of them adding new instruments in the future?
I understand you so much =) I was so frustrated when I hit Master Musician only to realize that there was still an instrument I couldnt play... and what an instrument!!
It didnt last long before I screwed up what I had left of an interesting combat/medic/scout/musician template to get that Mandoviol (my precious! my own! we like it precious! we like the Mandoviol very much!)
Message Edited by Mentalbug on 03-07-2005 11:34 AM
AeGura
Mon Mar 07, 2005 3:28 pm
#21
i don't want to sound argumentative,because i DO understand the frustration of not being able to play the mando at master musician. however........i don't feel it's that far of a stretch to say that it's an instrament for the master entertainer tree. when you think about the instraments, i personally find the mando the most "entertaining" to watch and listen to.
i've known a lot of musicians in RL that could play music like nobody's business........but as incredible as they are to listen to, they aren't necesarily all that entertaining to watch. i see thedance moves that you learn as master ent to go a long way to being more entertaining, and the ID skills would encourage your charisma and your ability to converse with people. it makes PERFECT sense to me that the most visually entertaining instrament is granted at master entertainer.
as for the extra SP cost.........i think that the 250 sp that we get to spend is equivilent to RL skills. there's three major forms of playing: combat, entertaining and crafting. and you have to make the decision to either be knowledgeable in more than one area, or a master of one......maybe two; no one can be a master in ALL of the areas of play. how many people do you know are equally great at basketball, baseball and football? how many hockey players do you think are praise-worthy ballet dancers? entertaining is a skill-intensive proffession, and one in which i had to dedicate an entire alt to pursue. i've mastered musician, ent, and ID, and am at a loss for what to do with my remaining 47 points; dancing is truly the only thing that would even be worthwhile to put it towards, but i can't say that dancing holds any interest for me.
so......MY advice for anyone that loves the musician as much as i do, but wants to explore other aspects of the game: you can do what i did, and get one account for your master musician, master entertainer and master ID; one account for your master creature handler, master BE and novice rifleman; and a THIRD account to get your master tailor, master DE and master Armorsmith (i know.....i'm going against what i said about no one can have ALL the professions.........but you can if you spend the extra $30 a month. i guess the Beetles were wrong, and money CAN buy happiness) 
Drygo
Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:22 pm
#22
I hope Hobbytla doesn't mind, but I wanted to post this here, because I felt that this is a great explanation of why I don't think the Mandovial and Ceremonial should be in the Master Entertainer box. I couldn't have said it better myself. All of these points explain exactly why it shouldn't be there. Pay close attention to how he compares the types of skills at Master novice professions to that of Master Entertainer. And, note the difference between enhancements to a novice profession vs. something that feels as if it was required. I've highlighted in yellow what I think is a really GREAT analogy.
I quote Hobbytla:
"There is no justification to make master entertainer a pre-requisite to being a full service ID.
It's unfortunate about the musicians, but this is the exception, not the rule for thestarting professionsmaster boxes. If anything I think that contentshould be added to musician instead of forcing the other master elite professions to get the ME box.
Scout - get no new abilities, only bonuses to skill mods.
Medic - 1 new ability: to make Stim D, and bonuses to skill mods. However - to be combat medic or doctor you need to have master medic, so the only profession who don't benefit from this would be BE, who need the chemistry-tree - this isnot aloss for a BE, especially since they can BUY the stim D from a vendor for personal use.
Marksman - 1 new ability: Overcharge Shot 2 (overcharge 1 is in the novice box so not a unique special), plus skill mods bonuses.
Brawler - the 2 version of all abilities granted in Novice box, no "new" specials, only better, plus bonuses to skill mods.
Artisan - No bonuses to skill mods, but can make new items. However, since these items can be purchased, there is no need for a weaponsmith who need a control unit to have Master Artisan - he can buy this from a MA vendor and chose not to spend the skill points. The vehicles are unique items sold to players as MA items - no armorsmith will grit his teeth over not being able to provide them on his vendor.
Forcing ID to get the ME box to be able to provide full services to people is like putting parts of the Bio-Engineeringabilitiesin Master Medic only.
If Master Entertainer needs to change, in my opinion it needs to do something else, something unique, but without withholding content from the elite professions. It's better to think about what an entertainer is, and what would it mean to be a Master Entertainer. A master entertainer in my opinion shouldn't neccessarily be someone who can do a little bit of dancer, musician, id, but something unique which goes beyond those professions. In a way like master artisan - where would we be without our vehicles? But building them is not neccessary for any of the other artisan professions to function.
I've already suggested earlier that perhaps things in way of event planning could be a way to go - perhaps special bonuses to the customers or party-goers, a critical part in a fame system, etc. If people don't like this, I'm sure there are other things we could imagine being in the realm of a "master entertainer" - go ahead and think up something.
Failing that, perhaps think of the equivalent of skill mods stacking in terms of BF healing or even the buff bonus. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to choose if you want to buy the +25 tapes, or spend the skillpoints for ME?
Or how about if you had ME + MM or MD you could buffall mindstats without having to master both professions?
This is more about skillpoints than anything else. I know I'm not the only ID who combines IDing with Tailoring. Being forced to have Master Entertainer would make it impossible to also have merchant. Not even master merchant - simply MID and MT will hinder my merchant abilities, adding ME would make it impossible to have any merchant skills of use.
I'm not with this saying that entertaining is somehow worthless to me, I also have an entertainer character and most of all my char have some ent skills if they can afford it... but ID is more connected to tailoring than with dancer/musician. And putting any kind of permanent ID skills with ME would make it neccessary for an ID to have it. Customers have no clue when you learn what, and why should they? Putting any permanent features in the ME box only would be the equivalent of putting the color blue for tailors in the M Artisan box. If they put all of the tailoring components in the master artisan box - fine, I wouldn't be happy, but I could buy my supplies on a vendor. But not being able to do blue? Why? And the color blue would be strange for a master artisan too - the clothes they can make are very limited. So - it would in effect have very little effect on the master artisan players only, but force the tailors to also have master artisan. It would be worse actually, since if a tailor can't make blue clothes, there simply would be no blue clothes to choose from on their vendor. But an ID provides their services in person, which will make people very frustrated if they don't know who to ask for what change. The MID can't make the body tattooes, but the Master Entertainer can't provide all the other services which an ID can.
I'm sorry if I have overstated my point, it's not really directed at the original poster but more in a general way stating my opinion in the matter....
I just think it's better to make Master Entertainer a unique choice, rather thanrobbing the other elite professionsof content.
If no-ones imagination stretches that far, then go look for ways to add skill mods to ME instead like with the other starter profession master boxes. The only real skill mods as I understand is to wound healing. Which you can get by clothes, and has been changed now anyway, to not being very slow to heal. BF has become more important however, and although I haven't tried to confirm this on the forums, I can swear that all my combat characters sustain way more BF now then they every have before. My master combat used to reach 250 BF (the magic number) after several intense buffsessions of fighting, now she has sometimes 5-600 in ONE buffsession. I was wondering if I was going crazy but my boyfriend has noticed it too. With the changes to healing times etc, it wouldn't surprise me if this is all part of the CU in some way. (and hehe, perhaps even the "EU"!?)
If you've read this far, Thank you...."
Message Edited by Drygo on 03-07-2005 05:25 PM
Hobbytla
Tue Mar 08, 2005 3:32 am
#23
Nope, I don't mind at ALL!
However, in the entertainer discussion it didn't seem like the musician issue was up for discussion, so I chose not to mention it, especially since I know musicians are already fighting to have this changed.
My examples were relating to ID, who provide certain direct services to other players. If I had commented on musician I would probably have gone even further.
You can't really compare a combat special to an "entertainer special" (instrument, dance/song, flourish). The content for a combat player is not their specials but what the specials can do, which monsters or NPCs they can defeat, and how useful they are in PvP. I admit that I think my Pikeman has some cool moves when she fights, but that's not why I choose one special over the other. For entertainers (=dancers/musicians) the "specials"IS the content. Yes, there are additional benefits for other players to us doing our thing, but that benefit isn't really the "entertainer content". And, it doesn't matter in the least for the game mechanics what intstrument or song/dance is used.
If you create an artificial need for the master entertainer box you might achieve people spending the skillpoints for it, but, you have also admitted defeat in making "entertainer" a worthwhile profession in itself. Instead of stretching your imaginatin or vision to define "master entertainer" you withold content from the elite and specialized professions.
Again, you could say that about the combat professions too. My pikeman is "better" if she also has master brawler. But it doesn't really effect her content in the immediate and direct way which it does for entertainers. The content for a combat stays the same - you are just more effective. Yes, there are certain monsters which you might defeat only bybeinga combat stacker - but you can also chose to attack that monster in a group, and thereby get access to this specific content. There is no such indirect access to entertainer content - you either have to spend the skillpoints or be denied.
Perhaps it would be valid to compare entertainers with medic. Then again, the elite professions that come from medic are the SAME. A doctor is an advanced medic, and a combat medic is a specialized medic. BE is a hybrid profession, and never requires more than 1 tree, other than for personal convinience. Image design, musician and dancer are individual and separate professions, unique from each other even if they are also related.
And as we all know, there are really only two commodities in this game; RL time, and skillpoints. *holding her breath until the urge to comment on AFK play goes away*
I guess this was just a long way to say that even if I protested a suggestion to make ME "needed" for a MID... I feel just as strongly about the musicians "need" for ME.
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