Musician Archive

PS Still no comments on the crafting analogy?

No, if we cannot get the basic facts straight, debating concepts or theories doesn't make sense.

If you don't agree with me that master pistoleer does not have all pistol moves and mods available despite this fact being clearly displayed on screen when you press Strg-S, we cannot come to a solution.

I don't mind different oppinions. But as a start we are talking facts here. Pixels on your screen forming english words. If they don't form the same words on your screen like on anyone elses, we have a problem.

1: Should the Master Musician know all the songs and instruments available ?:

No.

2: What is your career path in regards to Entertainment in-game?: Master Entertainer, Master Musician, Both or Other

Master Entertainer with leanings toward both.

Description of Pistoleer - A Master Pistoleer has gained significant improvements in short-range firearms along with a series of special abilities for nearly ever situation.

Description of Musician - A Master Musician knowsall the songs and insturments available, and has all the tools to put on a professional performance.

Ok, one clearly states that you know all there is and one doesn't. This is why you have a flawed argument in that respect.

Second, we are making a comparison of a base profession affecting a elite profession, not another elite profession affecting another elite profession. This is why the comparison in pistols would be to have the FWG5 and Healthshot 2 in Master Marksman. This is the exact analogy that exists in Musician and Dance. It exists nowhere else. The only close comparison is the crafting system, but since that is another system entirely, it doesn't compare properly either.

Also, saying hit control-s and read doesn't help your points, you need to do that math. Master Marksman gives Pistol Acuracy +10 and Pistol Speed +5 for modifiers and Overshot 2. I mentioned that these were negligible. First a Master Pistoleer has Pistol Accuracy of +95. You can only get and additional +5 before you cap out, so a +10 is wasted and is also no going to impact you accuracy. Second they have a Pistol Speed of +74. +5 is alsonegligible topistoleers when with a good weapon you will be capped at 1.0 speed on the weapon anyway. Last, Overshot 2 is not used by pistoleers. Why would it be when you have Fan Shot, Bodyshot 2, Double Tap and Stopping Shot. What I am trying to say is that Master Pistoleers do not take Master Marksman for pistoleer, they may for bounty hunter, but not for pistoleer.

Btw, Master Bounty Hunter states: A Master Bounty Hunter can effectively track down and eliminate almost any opponent. How did this fit into your argument again, because I think you got it wrong.

Sure I understand your logic sir.

Been kinda fun goin back and forth with ya

I truly feel that the comparisons are weak though. Pistolaro's have plenty of these skills in there own tree.

My point was to evolve to a pistolaro you need marksmen line. Not the BH line. If the DX2 was in Marksmen versus Pistolaro line thats a fair comparison. Why because that is the exact analogy of what musicians are dealin with.

Your pulling weapons from lines that break from a classes evolution.

ie: Marksmen>Pistoleer If any tool was in Marksmen in proportion to what ME has with MM I think you would here people raise the same questions.

Now if we had another entertainer class that could play tunes that would certainly be a variable to your logic, but we dont.

Please if you can try to use the classes normal evolution lines for comparisons. Your not playin fair

Now then if other non-artisan classes can use all the things they make why cant we

My point is, there is a precedent yes?

Please dont use artisan classes we are not artisans!

I do see your logic I just dont agree. Are you wrong? I'm not saying that, all I'm saying is there is more then your way of seeing this. I think MM's have a valid gripe here.

Peace mon

Description of Pistoleer - A Master Pistoleer has gained significant improvements in short-range firearms along with a series of special abilities for nearly ever situation.

Description of Musician - A Master Musician knowsall the songs and insturments available, and has all the tools to put on a professional performance.

Ok, one clearly states that you know all there is and one doesn't. This is why you have a flawed argument in that respect.

Actually, we didn't get to the point of an argument concerningthe description, where you can have an oppinion whether the description is wrong or the implementation is wrong, because those I was arguing with didn't even acknowledge the facts. Without basic facts no argument can be fruitful.

You are right concerning the descriptions. My oppinion is that the description is wrong because a) it's an exageration and an advertisement for theclass and b) the musician fits in the system of "base class mastership improving the elite class", implying the implementation is fine and the description broken. This is my oppinion and open to debate.

However, if I cannot come to terms with the previous poster on what is displayed on screen,stating an oppinion backed by claims based on what is displayed on screen is pointless.

Second, we are making a comparison of a base profession affecting a elite profession, not another elite profession affecting another elite profession.

This is correct. I was assuming that another elite influencing your own elite would be an even better argument as it is actually worse for the player having to take a second base and eliteinstead of simply mastering his own.

This is why the comparison in pistols would be to have the FWG5 and Healthshot 2 in Master Marksman. This is the exact analogy that exists in Musician and Dance.

Well, we don't have accuracy or speed modifiers for dance/music, so the analogy is a bit off. But my point was that you get better in your elite profession by mastering the base, and that still stands.

Also, saying hit control-s and read doesn't help your points, you need to do that math. Master Marksman gives Pistol Acuracy +10 and Pistol Speed +5 for modifiers and Overshot 2. I mentioned that these were negligible. First a Master Pistoleer has Pistol Accuracy of +95. You can only get and additional +5 before you cap out, so a +10 is wasted and is also no going to impact you accuracy. Second they have a Pistol Speed of +74. +5 is alsonegligible topistoleers when with a good weapon you will be capped at 1.0 speed on the weapon anyway. Last, Overshot 2 is not used by pistoleers. Why would it be when you have Fan Shot, Bodyshot 2, Double Tap and Stopping Shot. What I am trying to say is that Master Pistoleers do not take Master Marksman for pistoleer, they may for bounty hunter, but not for pistoleer.

Hm, ok, my bad, I'm not a pistoleer so I forgot that they might not need the master marksman stuff because they hit anything at any range anyway. Lets take rifleman. They get the same boni from master marksman, but can really use them because they don't hit any caps with their weapons. If OverCharge2 is not used because of other specials, why would you want to use Mandaviol when you have the other instruments ?

Btw, Master Bounty Hunter states: A Master Bounty Hunter can effectively track down and eliminate almost any opponent. How did this fit into your argument again, because I think you got it wrong.

I was using it to show that BHs are whining when they cannot kill anything that moves because their description says so. Point was that descriptions are exagerations and advertisements not to be taken to literally.

As it stands right now we argue about oppinions, on how something should be and how facts can be evaluated. That's great, and though I think I'm right ( none of us would argue if anybody was thinking he is wrong ), I wouldn't mind being convinced of something else if that's a nice solution in the end. I didn't mean to boast about logic, but the total ignorance about the facts that are straight on screen in SWG of the previous poster made me quite mad. Sorry Black you are probably a really nice person and fun to play with, but in a debate there has to be some basic groundwork and you were totally lacking it despite being available through a simple keyboard shortcut.

Hey man I didnt mean to make you mad.

I thought we were just goin at it.

If this is pissin ya off then lets just agree to disagree

We are entertainers after all.

Regardless of whether we agree or disagree. Boards are good, they show the hosts we are playing and talking about our classes.

Is it a pain that I have to burn 36 points to get a tune and an Instrument? Yes,for me and my template yes but hey that the music buisness

Oh by the way ..... dude you are soo wrong

Weeeeehaaaa

Oh by the way ..... dude you are soo wrong

That might well be. However, without factual support of your oppinion, you will not convince me.

LOL

Now that's a shock!!!

Who woulda figured

Can we agree that since this thread won't die that there might be some kind of issue here?

I loved the ME in the MM band story. ME gig griefing. Lol, never thought of that.

To put everyone on the same footing in this argument, let's give ME a unique ID skill to pizz them off. The only reason why dancers are not overly concerned is the unique dancesare just a cleaned up versions of prior dances.

There is no doubt in my mind that musicians got the shaft on this deal and that is why this issue will not die in this forum.