Musician Archive
Thread: Poll for ALL Entertainers. Please keep it strictly to the questions:
This obviously was a decision. Not all decisions are good and/or correct.
Thats right. However, my conclusion is that we should ( or should not, depending on perspective ) criticise the decision itself. The decision itself is that mastery of a base class brings more thanmastering the elite class alone. That goes for all classes. While this design decision might be wrong, if you don't like it,talk about the decision, not only your personal problem with one symptom of the decision. As it is, it works as intended within the system.
All other songs are in the musician accessable trees -1 Cere.
I simply feel this isnt set up right. Now ofcourse you have illustrated a high opinion of your logic which is fine.
I simply offer an opinion from my perspective. I have clients and event folks that I'm working to build up and the more I play the more I feel this way. We do not have enough now this one is wasted where it is.
But if we add 20 other songs to master musician, wouldn't you still want it using the same reasoning ?
Umm as far as logic goes please spare me your high handed opinions of yerself LOL You "Wanted" the game. Logic did not prompt you to buy it. It's all about wants Mr Spock
For one, I wanted the game, so I paid for it. If you want ME, go pay for it. It's not as if it is somehow inaccessible to you. You just don't like the cost.
DEVs create "wants" to make money. DEVs hear many, many, many people with "wants" ( just take a look at about any combat class forum ). If people at SOE were reacting to people's "wants", you would see one third of he SGW population being invincible unstoppable killing machines, another third part being super sexy naked dancers and the last part having the power to kick both other parties from the game to finally have some mature fun. DEVs don't react to wants. If you find a flaw in the system, DEVs will take notice. If you propose a change to the system ( not a change to a single class contrary to the existing system ! ) DEVs might take notice. If you "want", DEVs will go do something else, because everyone wants something from them.
Earn yer stripes lad. You cannot tell if it's broken until you try to use it
I do use it since beta. And you only need 30 minutes in a cantina to long for more instruments and songs 
. As you only need some days as a combat class to acknowledge the lack of different weaponry. My impression is that as you don't see the analogies and are somewhat proud of your musician stripes that maybe you are a musician but little else ( which doesn't make sense as you aren't ME because you have no points,but anyway... ). If you take up other classes, you will see that the same problem you see with musicians and master entertainers actually is a problem in the system. It's the very same problem with most Elite classes and their base professions. ( Actually, if it's a problem or working fine depends onperspective )
I'm all for more songs ( or weapons or dances or crafting schematics for said weapons ). I'm strictly against tinkering with the symptoms by patching a single class like Entertainer/Musician for a select group of people.
Nvoigt
Forums are hard to express all my intentions.
Bear in mind this Sir.
Aside from our discussions if we were in the same server and you sent me a tell askin for a train I'd still hook you up. I do this all the time. It was done for me and I have every intention of perpetuating that tradition. If I'm hunting I'll always swing by the Cantina for a train.
If you needed a Mandivol I would make you one for cost.
I'm a bit sarcastic at times but I do respect your opinions. I just express how I feel. Keeps our board lively
Just never mistake the fact that we are Musicians and If I can ever help ya I'm there.
With that said..
Enough of yer whacked logic gimme Cere Muwahahahahaha
Man if I gotta do makeup fer Cere I'm jus gonna crai. And dancin omg I so do not wanna do that but I truly do find more and more I need a new tune
Cheers
Naaa,
I'm one box from Master Scout. I find it handy for Musicians to run good especially on Endor
Also a novice Gunfighter I could care less about not having access to the scatter.
Slicing offers a decent range in weapons that I have access to.
My experiences with our class is we share training with each other and our groups are constant and larger then most.
Ofcourse I'm not saying my perspective is gospel.
Mandivol is an awful neat instrument and ME's deserve it. Just share the tune mon
/respect
As an ME who could use the skill points of just going to MM, I can say that it would allow me to become a much better combatant if I could give up ME. I would not do this unless the mandoviol and ceremonial were available to MMs.
If mandoviol and ceremonial were given to MMs and then MEs were given something more (I'm totally against taking them away from MEs...just sharing) then I would only unlearn ME if the new perks were not worth it too me. If the new perks were nice, I would keep ME.
It's odd that two of the Musicians biggest gripes currently are 1) THey want to be more effective in the field and 2) they want mando and ceremonial at MM.
I think the two go hand-in-hand. You get one, it allows you to get the other. /shrug
No
( on my way to ) Both
Argument #1: Musicians are masters and should be able to doeverything music
Counter: Pistoleers are masters, too and are not able to do everything pistol. This pattern seems to be by design.
Argument #2: Musicians cannot use Mandaviol
Counter: They can. They just have to spend skillpoints. Again, pistoleers cannot get their full attack speed and accuracy until they take master marksman or BH. This pattern seems to be by design.
Argument #3: Ability to craft Mandaviols but not use them is wrong.
Counter:A master weaponsmith cannot usehis product either. This pattern seems to be by design.
Argument #4: But it says so in my description.
Counter: That is an advertisement. All descriptions make the characters the best there is. This pattern seems to be by design.
All I can hear is "I want". Well, make it so. If you want it, go get it. You won't get it without a cost though and my best guess is you don't want to pay the costs. That again is common to all classes... all whine that they want to be the best and should be able to beat anyone else. I thought Entertainers didn't need that. Please don't go off on wild tangents again. Are there any arguments left or can you counter mine ? If so, please post. If not, please get back on the poll and don't waste space.
nvoigt wrote:
No
( on my way to ) Both
Argument #1: Musicians are masters and should be able to doeverything music
Counter: Pistoleers are masters, too and are not able to do everything pistol. This pattern seems to be by design.
Argument #2: Musicians cannot use Mandaviol
Counter: They can. They just have to spend skillpoints. Again, pistoleers cannot get their full attack speed and accuracy until they take master marksman or BH. This pattern seems to be by design.
Argument #3: Ability to craft Mandaviols but not use them is wrong.
Counter:A master weaponsmith cannot usehis product either. This pattern seems to be by design.
Argument #4: But it says so in my description.
Counter: That is an advertisement. All descriptions make the characters the best there is. This pattern seems to be by design.
All I can hear is "I want". Well, make it so. If you want it, go get it. You won't get it without a cost though and my best guess is you don't want to pay the costs. That again is common to all classes... all whine that they want to be the best and should be able to beat anyone else. I thought Entertainers didn't need that. Please don't go off on wild tangents again. Are there any arguments left or can you counter mine ? If so, please post. If not, please get back on the poll and don't waste space.
Your logic is flawed.
Argument #1 - Pistoleers are masters. They do not pick up any effective skill from Master Marksman. Using Bounty Hunter skills for your argument doesn't work as that is another elite profession. Also, you failed to realize that Master Marksman equally affects Carbide, Rifle, and Pistol, which Master Entertainer does not do for dance, music and image design. Second, Master Marksman does not also grant an additional weapon and an additional pistol only skill. It grants skill modifiers and a skill useable by all classes in the onion. Master Entertainer does not follow that pattern, hmmmm.
Argument #2 - Wrong, a musician does not get the mandoviol, only an entertainer does. You analogy is like saying that a Tera Kasi Artist gets to use a DX2. Of course he does is he spends the points in the OTHER profession.
Argument #3 - This one is just plain stupid. Anyone with any knowledge of the crafting system wouldn't even have addressed this issue here. I can't even believe you felt a need to even address this other than to fill out your post with more points.
Argument #4 - Wrong again, have you read all the descriptions?? Only Dancer, Musician, Image Designer and Creature Handler ever mentioning mastery of all the skills. Of those 2 are correct and 2 are wrong. A Master Image Designer does not need Master Entertainer, but Dancer and Musician do to actually be a master as their boxes describe. If you told a Creature Handler that he would have to master scout to get all of his taming abilities and be able to tame all creatures you have a revolt. Yet you expect all dancers and musicians to accept your "design theory". Since you were in Beta, you should know better than to claim it was based on design, since it was not designed as it stands, now was it.
As for wants, well I want pets to not be killable (oh wait, got that.) I want KD nerfed (got that too). Wait, I want clothing to not degrade (boy, must be on a roll here).
So there are your counters, but unlike you I'm not going to boast about my supreme logic, since someone might just come along and make me look like a supreme fool for doing so. Cheers. 
Argument #1 - Pistoleers are masters. They do not pick up any effective skill from Master Marksman.
They don't ? I'm at work, so I might be wrong, but if you are in-game try pressing Alt-S and have a look at master marksman. I bet there are accuracy or speed boni for pistol, which directlyinfluence the skill they mastered.
Argument #2 - Wrong, a musician does not get the mandoviol, only an entertainer does. You analogy is like saying that a Tera Kasi Artist gets to use a DX2. Of course he does is he spends the points in the OTHER profession.
I can't follow you on this one... my point is that a musician doesn't get all of his mastership skills/instruments in his class. Same with Pistoleer who can't use scatters and can't use dirty fighting unless the pistoleer takes another profession, which is even worse than having to master the base profession in my oppinion.
Argument #3 - This one is just plain stupid. Anyone with any knowledge of the crafting system wouldn't even have addressed this issue here.
I totally agree here. I felt the need to adress it as it was brought up as an argument. It's silly, but you don't argue by ignoring people, no matter how silly their arguments may be.
Argument #4 - Wrong again, have you read all the descriptions?? Only Dancer, Musician, Image Designer and Creature Handler ever mentioning mastery of all the skills. Of those 2 are correct and 2 are wrong. A Master Image Designer does not need Master Entertainer, but Dancer and Musician do to actually be a master as their boxes describe. If you told a Creature Handler that he would have to master scout to get all of his taming abilities and be able to tame all creatures you have a revolt. Yet you expect all dancers and musicians to accept your "design theory". Since you were in Beta, you should know better than to claim it was based on design, since it was not designed as it stands, now was it.
The design is that these descriptions are exagerations and glorifications of reality. For all descriptions I've read so far, Musicians included. You don't hear BHs whine they want to be uber because their description says so, do you ? oh wait... my bad 
As for wants, well I want pets to not be killable (oh wait, got that.) I want KD nerfed (got that too). Wait, I want clothing to not degrade (boy, must be on a roll here).
I wanted to play SWG ( oh wait, got that. )
I wanted the Mandaviol ( oh, wait, got that. )
obviously the system works for us, so why change it
So there are your counters, but unlike you I'm not going to boast about my supreme logic, since someone might just come along and make me look like a supreme fool for doing so. Cheers.
I didn't mean to boast about my supreme logic. I was merely set aback at how someone can totally ignore these points and post something totally irrelevant in return. If you can convince me I'm wrong, so be it. But just posting junk and ignoring me is not the way to achieve this. I can handle looking like a fool if someone has the better arguments. I just don't like being ignored.
Once again the stellar logic
You dont get the answers you like because your logic is solely based on your skewed opinion.
But Vat the heck I'll giver a go. OK pistoleer analogies for comparison to Musician. while I think this is silly here goes
To be a pistoleer you only use 2 lines of Marksmen branch to have all you can for the pitoleer master line.
While with your logic I need all of the Entertainer line to have access to all the musician instruments and songs.
The only reason I mentioned crafting ofinstruments is Musicians are not Artisans. Just as a scout can craft traps he can use all of the traps he is able to craft. We are not Artisans ,that is very different.
If a doctor could craft a stim he couldnt use I think that would be a valid gripe is all.
We are Not Artisans.
Now sure my post isnt broken down with lines and dots and stuff But dayum just make an attempt to open your mind.
I simply offer an honest perspective of what some of us experience in game and how it isnt right in my opinion.
Your only argument to date is these are the rules your argument has flawed logic my posts are logical so tuff luck.
Bada Bing
Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzz wrong answer skippy lets try again
Nope we arent playing the same game.
I do not need to learn Carbiner skills to be a full fleged pistoleer. With those 2 lines I have access to all my pistol skills and pistols offered..
Creature handlers do not need to learn how to make a campsite(survival) to be a CH with all access to their class.
A TKA does not need to learn 1h sword to access all TKA skills.
And yet Musicians have to learn all four, one being image design, one dancing,to be a Musician accessing all my items and songs.
In my view we suffer because their clueless on what to do with ME.
You neglected my spin on crafting also, your views?
Oh and let me know when you start actually playing SWG
Nope we arent playing the same game.
I do not need to learn Carbiner skills to be a full fleged pistoleer. With those 2 lines I have access to all my pistol skills and pistols offered..
Okay, I'm home now, and my master marksman box clearly says "Pistol Accuracy +10" "Pistol Speed +5" and "Overcharge Shot 2". My Novice Bounty Hunter skill box reads "Scatter Pistol Certification". My Dirty Fighting II box of Smuggler says "Panic Shot: A pistol attack that...". If your client does not display those texts, I can only recommend you contactSWG support.
I don't think it makes sense to discuss this matters as long as your client isn't fixed.
Hahahaha
Ohh how weak
LOL
At least the Scatter is in BH field and not Marksmen Master.
At least Dirty fighting IIisnt in the Brawler Master tree
LOL
OMG once again you have dazzled me with this amazing logic Or should I say reversed logic You share details of elite master classes.
Your replies are disapointing to say the least.
A proper analogy would be theDX2 in Marksmen Master but not Pistol.
Ofcourse a Musician needs to learn the proper use of eye shadow to play an instrument.
Ofcourse I need Hair styling to play a tune.........
Lame mon I'm just not getting it....more logic please!!!!
You simply refuse to face the facts that we were ripped to make ME viable.
PS Still no comments on the crafting analogy?
Actually never mind you seem so easily confused
Nice impression of the snowball running up hill though , I'm impressed.