Musician Archive

The Musician, Entertainer, and Dancer forums are being ignored by the devs at the moment, so I give you some insight into our frustration.

Tiggs said on October 12, 2004:

I will say that AFK dancers drive me bonkers as well when I am playing. I have no problem saying that if someone is AFK they will not be giving me buffs nor will I give them any credits. I do have many dancers on my friends list that I know are active on the servers I play. These dancers will get my business and receive payment for it.

We (the team) are all concerned about this issue and we will have this fixed. I know you have heard that over and over but not from me So hang in there we will be addressing the recursive macroing issues after we ship JtL.

Thunderheart said on August 6, 2004:

"We have chosen to move the game to a state where players actually play the game, not simply run virtual robots by means of macros. At the same time, we want to ensure that we address those valid gameplay areas which are most impacted by the loss of recursive macros."

Dev Chat from July 15, 2004:

*Utess* The Musician and Dancer professions are currently the only professions in game who's every function can be played 100% afk all the time. While Hologrinding is ending, this has given rise to a new generation of buff bots that are just as bad, if not worse, to these two professions. Do the devs have any strategies being worked on to resolve this problem? And, if so, what are they and when will we see them.

Runesabre: We as a team feel that AFK macroing is harmful to the game, especially to Dancers and Musicians. We have had a lot of discussions internally on how to solve this problem without hurting the professions at the same time.

justG:We don't like AFK either.

Thunderheart said on August 9, 2004:

"...Something along the lines of a time limit or a check for an infinite loop is what we will most likely see."

Sometime since then, the devs' position on AFK as a valid playstyle flipped absolutely from a firm opposition to support and consideration in new gameplay systems.

Clicky in which Tiggs affirms that the usage of AFK characters as grinding tools is not an exploit and should not be reported as circumventing game systems to exploit or gain advantage over players who actually play the game.

Clicky in which Phydeaux-K9 tells us that AFK entertainers are not being punished or eradicated because they provide "useful services." He also informs us that when the CU goes live, Inspiration buffs and Battle Fatigue Healing are the only Entertainer abilities. This means that an ATK Grand Master Entertainer with 250 skill points invested in her skills is NO MORE EFFECTIVE than an AFK Novice Entertainer who has just created her character with 15 skill points and a macro. The only difference is that the Grand Master's speed makes it EVEN HARDER for her to socialize with anyone, as they are done in 60 seconds.

Dev Chat on April 13, 2005:

*JavelinCatcher* CU Question: Currently the maximum number of players allowed in a group is 8 on TC-EP3 instead of 20 like we have on Live. Is this intended? If so, why?

Keldarin: We changed the group size to 8 to allow better balancing of the game. We can craft a more fun and tactical experience when we have a reasonable limit to the size of player groups.

This "more fun and tactical experience" includes an Entertainer grind that lasts can easily last upwards of 20 hours to reach Novice Musician. The new flourish icons will demand AFK'ing of the profession to avoid their ugliness.

Recursive macro adds nothing to your game but increased subscription numbers and increased spam. It removes player interaction at starports too lagged with Macro'ers to move, it makes cantinas feel more like graveyards than the Krayt one on Tatooine, and it shows a total disregard for the players of your game who ask one simple thing:

To know that when a character has a blue or purple name over their head, they are not an NPC.

I do not care that as Thunderheart asserts, 'Players will find a way to AFK if they want to, so we will let everyone use recursive macros.' That is simply the easy way out of creating a solution to a problem that has plagued this game since the first week it came out.

You want us to believe you care about the players as more than $15 a month? Prove it.

Message Edited by Bionic on 04-14-2005 10:46 PM

ﾚｲﾗﾆ ｷﾙ'ﾘｱ
Who decided every addition to SWG should be a rutabaga?

I posted this on the Game Guides forum as well, since I think we all know the dev reading the Entertainer forums is AFK.

Tiggs said on October 12, 2004:

I will say that AFK dancers drive me bonkers as well when I am playing. I have no problem saying that if someone is AFK they will not be giving me buffs nor will I give them any credits. I do have many dancers on my friends list that I know are active on the servers I play. These dancers will get my business and receive payment for it.

We (the team) are all concerned about this issue and we will have this fixed. I know you have heard that over and over but not from me So hang in there we will be addressing the recursive macroing issues after we ship JtL.

Thunderheart said on August 6, 2004:

"We have chosen to move the game to a state where players actually play the game, not simply run virtual robots by means of macros. At the same time, we want to ensure that we address those valid gameplay areas which are most impacted by the loss of recursive macros."

Dev Chat from July 15, 2004:

*Utess* The Musician and Dancer professions are currently the only professions in game who's every function can be played 100% afk all the time. While Hologrinding is ending, this has given rise to a new generation of buff bots that are just as bad, if not worse, to these two professions. Do the devs have any strategies being worked on to resolve this problem? And, if so, what are they and when will we see them.

Runesabre: We as a team feel that AFK macroing is harmful to the game, especially to Dancers and Musicians. We have had a lot of discussions internally on how to solve this problem without hurting the professions at the same time.

justG:We don't like AFK either.

Thunderheart said on August 9, 2004:

"...Something along the lines of a time limit or a check for an infinite loop is what we will most likely see."

Sometime since then, the devs' position on AFK as a valid playstyle flipped absolutely from a firm opposition to support and consideration in new gameplay systems.

Clicky in which Tiggs affirms that the usage of AFK characters as grinding tools is not an exploit and should not be reported as circumventing game systems to exploit or gain advantage over players who actually play the game.

Clicky in which Phydeaux-K9 tells us that AFK entertainers are not being punished or eradicated because they provide "useful services." He also informs us that when the CU goes live, Inspiration buffs and Battle Fatigue Healing are the only Entertainer abilities. This means that an ATK Grand Master Entertainer with 250 skill points invested in her skills is NO MORE EFFECTIVE than an AFK Novice Entertainer who has just created her character with 15 skill points and a macro. The only difference is that the Grand Master's speed makes it EVEN HARDER for her to socialize with anyone, as they are done in 60 seconds.

Dev Chat on April 13, 2005:

*JavelinCatcher* CU Question: Currently the maximum number of players allowed in a group is 8 on TC-EP3 instead of 20 like we have on Live. Is this intended? If so, why?

Keldarin: We changed the group size to 8 to allow better balancing of the game. We can craft a more fun and tactical experience when we have a reasonable limit to the size of player groups.

This "more fun and tactical experience" includes an Entertainer grind that lasts can easily last upwards of 20 hours to reach Novice Musician. The new flourish icons will demand AFK'ing of the profession to avoid their ugliness.

Recursive macro adds nothing to your game but increased subscription numbers and increased spam. It removes player interaction at starports too lagged with Macro'ers to move, it makes cantinas feel more like graveyards than the Krayt one on Tatooine, and it shows a total disregard for the players of your game who ask one simple thing:

To know that when a character has a blue or purple name over their head, they are not an NPC.

I do not care that as Thunderheart asserts, 'Players will find a way to AFK if they want to, so we will let everyone use recursive macros.' That is simply the easy way out of creating a solution to a problem that has plagued this game since the first week it came out.

You want us to believe you care about the players as more than $15 a month? Prove it.

Message Edited by Bionic on 04-14-2005 10:45 PM

ﾚｲﾗﾆ ｷﾙ'ﾘｱ
Who decided every addition to SWG should be a rutabaga?

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Drygo wrote:

This is a great post. I have copied it for my own personal use in the future, and will continue to /bump it if goes off the first page.

Five Stars for j00!!!!111!!

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Thanks. If anyone has links or quotes to add, please feel free. This was just bothering me tonight because I logged on and realized I hadn't been in a cantina for almost two weeks because I didn't want to be spammed. Part of that is the Stormtroopers factor, but regardless, I felt it necessary to put my frustration into building a monument to AFK comments.

I hope a dev reads it.

The line that stuck to me most was:
"The new flourish icons will demand AFK'ing of the profession to avoid their ugliness."

On a more serious note, I'm glad you put up all the quotes and links. Very informative stuff.

= Andrew
Chilastra.Palacek

I personally avoid Cnet like the plague. I cant stand to even be near that cantina on my server.

How is this a game guide?

It is clearly a guide to the developers' various positions on AFK in the game.

Mmmmkay.

If the CU is as bad as they say and they don't drop that bullsh*t then my account will be cancelled within a month(since I pay for a month at a time)

why can't i 5-star you? no stars... where are they?

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BadgerSmaker wrote:

Angry entertainers scare me more than any PvP encounter I've ever had in SWG.

Not really the right forum for your rant thoguh is it?

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It's not a rant, it's clearly a guide to AFK. Similar to how there are threads detailing how to macro or guides to forum functions, this is a guide to the devs' positions on AFK.

People who are on the fence about AFK'ing will be able to take comfort in the fact that the Dev's can not make up their minds either about the issue.