Merchant Archive
Thread: WARNING!! Vendor turnover broke... but you're the liar
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Desperado97
Tue Sep 28, 2004 10:31 pm
#1
Just in case a CSR reads this.. reference ticket #'s 2462932 and 2464180
Vendor turnover is broke... but not the end of the story. We all seen the announcement in the update that vendor turnover that was 14 days was change to 100 days. This is not true!!..
I knew that my vendor was not working since I drop Business before the vendor nerf. But I was still using the vendor to recieve offers from Scouts and Rangers that work for me. Well after seeing the announcement that turnover was changed from 14-100 days I was in no rush to regrind Business IV and kept my Hunting to harvest Meat and Hide (Which I would have to drop)
To my surprise I logged in one day to a few people telling me and calling me that my vendor had disappeared. I knew there was offers on the vendors that were lost as well. So I decided to regrind Business IV quick to get a vendor back in place so I can accept offers again and try and cut back on losing anymore time. I also submitted a CSR ticket inquiring about what happen and why it seemed my vendor died after 14 days instead of the 100 days.
After hitting Business IV I created a vendor with the same name as the other one.. but quickly though "What if they can recreate my old vendor?" So I deleted and created a new one with a different name and placed it in the house in a different location... just in case. Shortly afterwards the CSR replied.
CSR Agent responded with inactive vendors die within 14 days... offers and buying offers or warehouse does not delay the deletions. I respond inquiring why we "the players" were informed were informed that turnover was changed from 14 days to 100 days and what SOE's definition of turnover was.
CSR Patrick responded with... Turnover is the time that a inactive vendor that hasn't posted sale or sold an item is deleted... My response, Why was my vendor deleted then since it has only been 14 days and no where close to 100 days. He asked what planet and the name of my vendor. Great!! So I think I am getting some where with a CSR, someone that cares and is willing to help.... WRONG!!!
CSR Patrick replies and insinuates that I am a liar, because hechecked the records and saw that "I deleted my vendor" therefore it was all lost. When in fact what he saw that I did create another vendor with the same name and decided it might be in everybodies best interests in less confusing to create a new vendor with a different name in the meantime of trying to straighten things out.
So all offers to my vendor is lost and SOE won't even reply to my new ticket. I could see if I did this and I did delete the vendor before I emptied it (I don it before and lost thousand and thousands of credits), but I didn't. SOE's system deleted my vendor, then on top of that they insinuate that I am lying to them. GREAT CUSTOMER SERVICE SOE. Why not just say you don't want my money and I should go play another game from a company that cares?
SOE doesNOT care... no matter what it's not their fault. Even though you did nothing wrong and they announce changes that are broke, you are at fault.
This is not over.. I will find a way to contact someone at SOE and talk to them in person. And when I do I will ask where they train their CSR's and exactly how it's the customers fault that their game is broke.
Cross postedto trying warn others that their vendor may disappear and SOE doesn't care.
moody628
Tue Sep 28, 2004 10:46 pm
#2
LOL! You too?
I had a CSR accuse me of trying to lie and steal in response to lost items on my vendor once. I learned a long time ago that whatever the C and S stand for in CSR, it definitely isn't Customer Service. On another ticket, I had a CSR tell me that I was a liar and that I couldn't possibly be experiencing the problem that I submitted, despite the fact that I can recreate that particular issue at will, more than a year later. They threatened to cancel my account if I didn't shut up over that one.
In regards to your specific problem, however, offers (and the purchase of offers) do not count as sales. Stupid, huh? I can understand that viewing your vendor would not change the inactive status, but offers and accepting offers should. So, that's where you go nailed on that account. You still should have gotten the 100 days, though.
Desperado97
Tue Sep 28, 2004 11:01 pm
#3
Well as far as I am concern... I know what the status for my vendor was. I knew it was going to die, but I still had 80+ days till vedor death. SOE on their front page announcements stated that turnover was changed from 14 days to 100 days. A CSR from SOE stated that the definition of turnover was the time from last sale, in which this starts a vendor becoming inactive.
This is by any legal definition FALSE ADVERTISING.
I will be waiting to call SOE tomorrow and I am not going to be pleasent about it. But I choose my words carefully, because my next call will be to a lawyer and point out what SOE is advertising and what in fact really is occurring in game. I don't pay to play a game and then be called a liar by some CSR.
Anistra
Wed Sep 29, 2004 3:05 am
#4
I understood "turnover time" to be the time that it took for items to fall off the vendor into the stockroom for restocking. I always assumed that inactive vendors would still be deleted if they were not used within a 14-day time span. I read a note that said only a customer purchasing an item or you postingan item for sale would constitute "use" and reset the deletion countdown.
Aneria
DocSavag
Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:48 am
#5
There is supposed to be two different systems to delete vendors:
1. Empty Vendors are deleted if they go 14 days with no items for sale (offers don't count).
2. Inactive Vendors are deleted if they go 100 days wth no sales activity (New items put up for sale or a sale to a customer)
CS might be confused about the rules as are many of us. I'm not sure the CS was calling you a liar but you have to apprectiate the when he went looking for the records he sees you deleting a vendor and has to wonder what you are talking about. Explaining it calmly would be preferable to going of about it, but I'm not sure if he will be able to see the log of the original vendor or not. I simply don't know.
1. Empty Vendors are deleted if they go 14 days with no items for sale (offers don't count).
2. Inactive Vendors are deleted if they go 100 days wth no sales activity (New items put up for sale or a sale to a customer)
CS might be confused about the rules as are many of us. I'm not sure the CS was calling you a liar but you have to apprectiate the when he went looking for the records he sees you deleting a vendor and has to wonder what you are talking about. Explaining it calmly would be preferable to going of about it, but I'm not sure if he will be able to see the log of the original vendor or not. I simply don't know.
LadyGrey
Wed Sep 29, 2004 5:27 am
#6
I had a CSR looking into a problem I was having with items on a vendor. They were looking at the "logs" and said that the vendor showed not having any sales at all during the time period I was speaking about. I was politely insisting that there had been sales, because it was one of my alternate characters that had purchased some items from that vendor. About two or three minutes into the conversation, the CSR said that "suddenly, those sales have shown up on the record." Just as we must sometimes wait for parts of the world to load or update, it may be that a CSR needs to be a little more patient when looking at their logs to see if something has occurred or not. They could be experiencing a similar, if not more severe, lag. If they are not aware of a lag, from the time they start looking at records, then it would appear to them as if many of the players are trying to pull a scam (just as many of us probably are close to having a stroke, when our house takes a long time to load itself as we walk into it, and we wonder if this will be the day that everything in there has disappeared).
I have found a few of the CSR's are quite knowledgeable, but that many have probably had very little in the way of formal training (customer relations, database knowledge, gameplay mechanics).
DocSavag
Wed Sep 29, 2004 5:48 am
#7
LadyGrey wrote:I had a CSR looking into a problem I was having with items on a vendor. They were looking at the "logs" and said that the vendor showed not having any sales at all during the time period I was speaking about. I was politely insisting that there had been sales, because it was one of my alternate characters that had purchased some items from that vendor. About two or three minutes into the conversation, the CSR said that "suddenly, those sales have shown up on the record." Just as we must sometimes wait for parts of the world to load or update, it may be that a CSR needs to be a little more patient when looking at their logs to see if something has occurred or not. They could be experiencing a similar, if not more severe, lag. If they are not aware of a lag, from the time they start looking at records, then it would appear to them as if many of the players are trying to pull a scam (just as many of us probably are close to having a stroke, when our house takes a long time to load itself as we walk into it, and we wonder if this will be the day that everything in there has disappeared).I have found a few of the CSR's are quite knowledgeable, but that many have probably had very little in the way of formal training (customer relations, database knowledge, gameplay mechanics).
This brings up a good point. I don't know what the log sysetm they are looking at looks like but from my own experiences looking at log systems to troubleshoot problems I can tell you that those systems are not very user friendly as a general rule. They are frequently just massive amounts of raw data that you have to sort though and filter to find what you need. It is easy to miss things and to misinturpret things. Is that an excuse? No the CS staff should be trained to use the tools they have but if you are dealing with CS and they report something that doesn't seem possible to you from the logs..calmly..politely ask them to look again and explain why you feel their findings aren't accurate. They are only human and sometimes they need a second chance to get it right. Also realize that these folks are dealing with people all day long who ARE trying to scam them so be patient if they jump to the wrong conclusion. Just be firm but respectful and you will usually (in my experience) get the same responses from them.
AlphaMaldorian
Wed Sep 29, 2004 6:55 am
#8
And while it is true that India was formally a British Colony (and by association more fluent in English than most in Asia), English is not they're native language. They might not understand the problem that you are trying to articulate.
Please be patient with SOE's CSR staff. They are the best that they can afford to hire.
cinnamon_tsunami
Wed Sep 29, 2004 8:01 am
#9
Desperado97 wrote:
Just in case a CSR reads this.. reference ticket #'s 2462932 and 2464180
Vendor turnover is broke... but not the end of the story. We all seen the announcement in the update that vendor turnover that was 14 days was change to 100 days. This is not true!!..
I knew that my vendor was not working since I drop Business before the vendor nerf. But I was still using the vendor to recieve offers from Scouts and Rangers that work for me. Well after seeing the announcement that turnover was changed from 14-100 days I was in no rush to regrind Business IV and kept my Hunting to harvest Meat and Hide (Which I would have to drop)
To my surprise I logged in one day to a few people telling me and calling me that my vendor had disappeared. I knew there was offers on the vendors that were lost as well. So I decided to regrind Business IV quick to get a vendor back in place so I can accept offers again and try and cut back on losing anymore time. I also submitted a CSR ticket inquiring about what happen and why it seemed my vendor died after 14 days instead of the 100 days.
After hitting Business IV I created a vendor with the same name as the other one.. but quickly though "What if they can recreate my old vendor?" So I deleted and created a new one with a different name and placed it in the house in a different location... just in case. Shortly afterwards the CSR replied.
CSR Agent responded with inactive vendors die within 14 days... offers and buying offers or warehouse does not delay the deletions. I respond inquiring why we "the players" were informed were informed that turnover was changed from 14 days to 100 days and what SOE's definition of turnover was.
CSR Patrick responded with... Turnover is the time that a inactive vendor that hasn't posted sale or sold an item is deleted... My response, Why was my vendor deleted then since it has only been 14 days and no where close to 100 days. He asked what planet and the name of my vendor. Great!! So I think I am getting some where with a CSR, someone that cares and is willing to help.... WRONG!!!
CSR Patrick replies and insinuates that I am a liar, because hechecked the records and saw that "I deleted my vendor" therefore it was all lost. When in fact what he saw that I did create another vendor with the same name and decided it might be in everybodies best interests in less confusing to create a new vendor with a different name in the meantime of trying to straighten things out.
So all offers to my vendor is lost and SOE won't even reply to my new ticket. I could see if I did this and I did delete the vendor before I emptied it (I don it before and lost thousand and thousands of credits), but I didn't. SOE's system deleted my vendor, then on top of that they insinuate that I am lying to them. GREAT CUSTOMER SERVICE SOE. Why not just say you don't want my money and I should go play another game from a company that cares?
SOE doesNOT care... no matter what it's not their fault. Even though you did nothing wrong and they announce changes that are broke, you are at fault.
This is not over.. I will find a way to contact someone at SOE and talk to them in person. And when I do I will ask where they train their CSR's and exactly how it's the customers fault that their game is broke.
Cross postedto trying warn others that their vendor may disappear and SOE doesn't care.
I had a similar problem, only I had master merchant at the time. My vendor dissapeared dispite having new items listed. I got an in game email saying that the vendor was deleted due to inactivity, which was not true -- I had just placed items on it the week before. When I submitted tickets, I was told the logs showed that I deleted the vendor, and advising me to be more careful. I tried every avenue of obtaining customer support that I have been able to identify, and no one will even admit the system deleted the vendor. No apology. No attempt to correct the problem. No admission that the system is bugged.
I cancelled my account. Three days left for them to fix it , or I am gone! Vote with your pocket book, people! If this is what they sell, don't buy it!
Malitevv
Wed Sep 29, 2004 8:44 am
#10
DocSavag wrote:
There is supposed to be two different systems to delete vendors:
1. Empty Vendors are deleted if they go 14 days with no items for sale (offers don't count).
2. Inactive Vendors are deleted if they go 100 days wth no sales activity (New items put up for sale or a sale to a customer)
CS might be confused about the rules as are many of us. I'm not sure the CS was calling you a liar but you have to apprectiate the when he went looking for the records he sees you deleting a vendor and has to wonder what you are talking about. Explaining it calmly would be preferable to going of about it, but I'm not sure if he will be able to see the log of the original vendor or not. I simply don't know.
Doc, I have a few questions
- we were all told last week that the inactive timer was being shifted to 100 days. That is what the launchpad's message of the day said late last week. but there was also an announcementin the launchpad during theweekendthat some of the changes were being rolled back due to problems but it doesn't say which changes were rolled back. In any case, they never did reinstitute the changes that were rolled back last week, was the increased inactivity timer one of them?
- before they increased the inactivity timer to 100 days, they stated that the vendor would be marked inactive after 14 days and would then be deleted 14 days later (that is what the update notes in the launchpads "message of the day" says is the case most currently). But even this isn't accurate. Vendors are getting flagged at 7 days and being deleted after 14, just as they always have been. Or so it seems.
DocSavag
Wed Sep 29, 2004 8:48 am
#11
Malitevv wrote:
DocSavag wrote:
There is supposed to be two different systems to delete vendors:
1. Empty Vendors are deleted if they go 14 days with no items for sale (offers don't count).
2. Inactive Vendors are deleted if they go 100 days wth no sales activity (New items put up for sale or a sale to a customer)
CS might be confused about the rules as are many of us. I'm not sure the CS was calling you a liar but you have to apprectiate the when he went looking for the records he sees you deleting a vendor and has to wonder what you are talking about. Explaining it calmly would be preferable to going of about it, but I'm not sure if he will be able to see the log of the original vendor or not. I simply don't know.Doc, I have a few questions
- we were all told last week that the inactive timer was being shifted to 100 days. That is what the launchpad's message of the day said late last week. but there was also an announcementin the launchpad during theweekendthat some of the changes were being rolled back due to problems but it doesn't say which changes were rolled back. In any case, they never did reinstitute the changes that were rolled back last week, was the increased inactivity timer one of them?
- before they increased the inactivity timer to 100 days, they stated that the vendor would be marked inactive after 14 days and would then be deleted 14 days later (that is what the update notes in the launchpads "message of the day" says is the case most currently). But even this isn't accurate. Vendors are getting flagged at 7 days and being deleted after 14, just as they always have been. Or so it seems.
My understanding is that the 100 day change is back in and appears on the patch notes for today.
There do seem to be a lot of cases where vendors have been removed before the 28 days they say it takes. I know that I had a vendor that took a lot longer than 14 days to be deleted after it was empty but I didn't measure the time exactly. That is basically why we are asking for people to post examples of that in the sticky'd thead. If its not working right we need to be able to show that and get them to fix it.
Malitevv
Wed Sep 29, 2004 8:52 am
#12
DocSavag wrote:
This brings up a good point. I don't know what the log sysetm they are looking at looks like but from my own experiences looking at log systems to troubleshoot problems I can tell you that those systems are not very user friendly as a general rule. They are frequently just massive amounts of raw data that you have to sort though and filter to find what you need. It is easy to miss things and to misinturpret things. Is that an excuse? No the CS staff should be trained to use the tools they have but if you are dealing with CS and they report something that doesn't seem possible to you from the logs..calmly..politely ask them to look again and explain why you feel their findings aren't accurate. They are only human and sometimes they need a second chance to get it right. Also realize that these folks are dealing with people all day long who ARE trying to scam them so be patient if they jump to the wrong conclusion. Just be firm but respectful and you will usually (in my experience) get the same responses from them.
I had a similar problem with a maintenance bug that caused the maintenance on my factory (which was paid up until early next year) to dissappear while I was gone for a weekend and then get deleted. The CSRs kept repeating "the log says that the factory was deleted due to lack of maintenance. it is your own fault for not paying it." I kept saying, "of course the log says it was deleted because of lack of maintenance, if the server thought the maintenance paid, it wouldn't have deleted the factory. but what I want to know is where the maintenance that was on it went!?". To which the CSR said, "but the log says that the factory was deleted due to lack of maintenance." At this point I started making friendly references to the novel Catch-22 and asked the CSRs if they had read it.
Somehow that got a wiser CSR on the line to finally respond who offered me some reimbursement. /smile
Malitevv
Wed Sep 29, 2004 8:53 am
#13
That was not the case at midnight last night, for reference.
DocSavag wrote:
My understanding is that the 100 day change is back in and appears on the patch notes for today.
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