Merchant Archive

Thread: Removing full, maintenance paid abandoned vendors has to end!

GraySeven
Sat Sep 18, 2004 7:49 am
#1

First, most of the changes involving the vendors are good. We are seeing empty vendors go away, and the clutter of illegal vendors thin...


But today I realized that, as a casual player, I'm getting screwed. Having been away from home for two weeks, I come back to two system messages saying that one of my vendors hasn't seen any activity and is in danger of being deleted...


...deleted with over 50 droid deeds and crates and a months worth of maintenance. Why? What problem does my full, legal vendor cause that puts it in danger of being deleted just because no one needed a droid over that period of time? What issue can this un-fun and discriminatory practice possibly be fixing?


Discriminatory? You bet. As a casual player, I'm being unfairly targeted with a nerf that can invalidate months of my game time by deleting a vendor filled with droid deeds. I don't have the luxury of playing games 10 plus hours a day, and my job takes me away from my computer for a week or two at a time.


I fully agree with all the other changes, but this one makes absolutely no sense. If the vendor was empty, thats one thing, but just because no one needs what Im selling from it for more than two weeks doesn't invalidate it. This needs to end.



Vahl Arturin - Elder Ranger, Elder Bounty Hunter, Elder Rifleman
&
Vaylis Arturin - Elder Armorsmith
Starsider
"The burning is love"

Knapf
Sat Sep 18, 2004 9:28 am
#2






GraySeven wrote:

First, most of the changes involving the vendors are good. We are seeing empty vendors go away, and the clutter of illegal vendors thin...


But today I realized that, as a casual player, I'm getting screwed. Having been away from home for two weeks, I come back to two system messages saying that one of my vendors hasn't seen any activity and is in danger of being deleted...


...deleted with over 50 droid deeds and crates and a months worth of maintenance. Why? What problem does my full, legal vendor cause that puts it in danger of being deleted just because no one needed a droid over that period of time? What issue can this un-fun and discriminatory practice possibly be fixing?


Discriminatory? You bet. As a casual player, I'm being unfairly targeted with a nerf that can invalidate months of my game time by deleting a vendor filled with droid deeds. I don't have the luxury of playing games 10 plus hours a day, and my job takes me away from my computer for a week or two at a time.


I fully agree with all the other changes, but this one makes absolutely no sense. If the vendor was empty, thats one thing, but just because no one needs what Im selling from it for more than two weeks doesn't invalidate it. This needs to end.






Amen My Friend. I have two crafters and I am also climbing the steps to jedi.. Thou I have the 10 plus hours to play I feel this is un-called for. So becaues no one needs a speeder in a few weeks I am forced to run to my venodor and buy something with my alt. I am luck to have this luxury but for those that are not or Can't afford to have two or 10 + acounts this is a kick in the jimmy. I can see empty vendors or even vedors of someone that has not logged in in two months or more. But for the working stiff who can only login at best once every few days or a maybe twice a month this could kills months of work..

This needs to go way.. this was not part of the problem.. Its nice to see vendors with stuff on them and if the player can afford to keep a well stocked vendor and keep it running for 30days with out touching it he /she should have a right..


PLEASE REMOVE THIS BEFORE IT DELETES PLAYERS AS WELL
AlphaMaldorian
Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:53 am
#3

I agree as well that this is a bone headed decision by the Dev's, however.......

At the launch (I remember, I was here) of the game, SWG was touted as being "casual-gamer" friendly and offered the chance to "Square off against other players on the VAST battlefields of a crumbling empire".

The Game packaging clearly states "Game Experience May Change During Online Play."

At the risk of sounding like I'm defending SOE (trust me I am NOT), they have changed the focus of the game to the "long-term" power gamer (examples: Jedi, persons with no lives other than SWG, multiple account holders, etc.). Since they stated that things may change from the very start, in they're eyes there's no reason for us (casual gamers, people who enjoy other activities besides being logged in 24/7, etc.) to complain.

If you don't like the changes that SOE forces upon you, quit. Management's recent policy addition banning mass gatherings (i.e. in game protests) only re-enforces the opinion that they could care less what the customers desire.

Personally my Account(s) were switched to monthly renewal back when the Combat Rebalance Delay was announced months ago. I stess tested World of Warcraft and have decided that once it goes live, my SWG accounts will be suspended (I might pay once every six months just to prevent permanent deletion just in case SWG takes a turn for the better) and cancelled.

Sorry for the rant, but I too have all but lost all faith in the Dev's of SWG.

Cheers



Potsilosk Thrashak
"Queer Eye for the Jedi" (R) Interior Design Service

Master Architect, Master Artisian, Master Merchant,
among other support professions.


_________________________________________________
lisasdarren
Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:52 am
#4






GraySeven wrote:

I fully agree with all the other changes, but this one makes absolutely no sense. If the vendor was empty, thats one thing, but just because no one needs what Im selling from it for more than two weeks doesn't invalidate it. This needs to end.






While it is not totally fair this change is there for alegitimate reasons, to wit:


To stop people getting the needed business skills once a month to keep their back room storage vendors going.


Real merchant vendors shouldn't be affected, if your vendor isn't being used once every two weeks by a customer then you have a real issue with your business, you don't need to access the vendors, but you do need to have customers.


Like I said this isn't fair on the really casual gamer, or anyone who has to go away often for several weeks, but all you need to do is develop a decent customer base and you will never need to worry again.





Trax Treort - Rifleman, Fencer & Imperial Pilot
LadyGrey
Mon Sep 20, 2004 6:43 am
#5






lisasdarren wrote:

Real merchant vendors shouldn't be affected, if your vendor isn't being used once every two weeks by a customer then you have a real issue with your business, you don't need to access the vendors, but you do need to have customers.


Like I said this isn't fair on the really casual gamer, or anyone who has to go away often for several weeks, but all you need to do is develop a decent customer base and you will never need to worry again.






Oh, is that all I need to do? Well, gee, gosh, I'm just so STUPID!!!


And you are just so ARROGANT!!! Not everyone happens to find an ideal place for their vendors to be set up, not everyone sells items that people need to buy all of the time, and not everyone has just one vendor, so that they can ensure that every customer that comes in will hit that vendor, and thus fulfill whatever dumb clock needs to be reset so that my skill-point-based, maintenance-paid stocked vendor will not just disappear in some random time after I get a badly-worded email about it (if I even get an email about it).


If the touted database cannot simply check to see if I have the skill points right here and now to have my vendor, then what use is the database? I just don't buy this argument. If you start to give up the skill points to have a vendor, a box should come up, telling you that you will lose your vendor immediately after giving up the skill points. If this can still be exploited, then the fix is worse than the original problem. We have now gone from TRYING to fix an exploit, to creating a problem that is driving many merchants to simply leave the game.


I have five vendors in my little store. They carry items that are logically divided out, simply for making shopping easier for my customers. I am a master merchant, and have been for many months. There are several of these vendors that only have customer interaction about once a month, because my customers know they are there, and know they are stocked all of the time, and use that knowledge to simply "top off" their stocks that they get from those vendors. It is a good arrangement. I spend a month carefully planning out my factory usage, and make extremely good quality products for those customers. They simply purchase enough to keep them going for a month. If they run out before the month is over, they know they can come in and get a little extra. Keeps their traveling, and frustration, to a minimum. I have time to just leave the vendor alone, and spend my time out prospecting, laying out harvesters, and planning out my products.


To just arrogantly say that I should have a more steady stream of customers is indicative of what this game has become. Instead of allowing the game to develop naturally, the devs are trying to force us into some bizarre type of business practice that almost none of the merchants I know care to follow.


It really isn't my problem that the devs have lost control of the code, and can only use band-aids to cover up the bad programming that originally went into this game. If a problem cannot be fixed with a straight-forward answer, then it might be better to leave something broken. All of my game content and immersion, at this point, is used up with work-arounds and playing mind games with the devs.







/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
LadyGrey

Don't let the negative AFKophobes get you down. Play the game however you want.

Is the beta testing almost over for this game?
lisasdarren
Mon Sep 20, 2004 7:19 am
#6









LadyGrey wrote:


And you are just so ARROGANT!!! Not everyone happens to find an ideal place for their vendors to be set up, not everyone sells items that people need to buy all of the time, and not everyone has just one vendor, so that they can ensure that every customer that comes in will hit that vendor, and thus fulfill whatever dumb clock needs to be reset so that my skill-point-based, maintenance-paid stocked vendor will not just disappear in some random time after I get a badly-worded email about it (if I even get an email about it). [SNIP]


I was just trying to offer some simple help, I agree that this is the wrong way to fix the problem, I was just suggesting how to live with it... I was going to leave it but since you seem to be determined to insult me I will respond.


My shop is not in an ideal location, it is in a player city on Corellia, until 2 weeks ago we didn't even have a shuttleport. I am an Architect, Armorsmithand stock artisan and smuggler goods too, most of my sales are Architect ones (though i get a reasonable number of sales in my other areas of business, each one sells something at least weekly i would estimate) and Architect goods are not exactly day to day purchases for most people.


I have been crafting and selling for just 3 months and yet my architect vendor is used by people from all over, people I have banned have used their Alts to shop here.. I have built a successful business in a short time and have sales regularly, I have a good business strategy, and that was all I was suggesting for others. Its not about location, or type of goods it is about running a successful business.



I have five vendors in my little store. They carry items that are logically divided out, simply for making shopping easier for my customers. I am a master merchant, and have been for many months. There are several of these vendors that only have customer interaction about once a month, because my customers know they are there, and know they are stocked all of the time, and use that knowledge to simply "top off" their stocks that they get from those vendors.[SNIP]


I have seven vendors in my little store, the items they carry are logically divided out for the same reason, but i have more than 1 customer. Are you expecting people to believe that all your customers for each product line all so their shopping at exactly the same point in each month and then don't return for 30 days?



To just arrogantly say that I should have a more steady stream of customers is indicative of what this game has become. Instead of allowing the game to develop naturally, the devs are trying to force us into some bizarre type of business practice that almost none of the merchants I know care to follow.


The devs are not trying to force us into a bizarre business practice, they are trying to block a loophole. The problem is with all the children (of all ages) who feel the need to cheat at games because they were never taught about fair play, or have a faulty conscience, if you want someone to blame then they are the ones at fault.






Message Edited by lisasdarren on 09-20-2004 03:21 PM




Trax Treort - Rifleman, Fencer & Imperial Pilot
DocSavag
Mon Sep 20, 2004 8:11 am
#7

Come on my friends. Lets not attack each other over this issue. I don't really think any of us supports the idea of vendors paid up in maintenance with merchandise on them being deleted by the system.

I certainly don't support this system and I"ve already told the devs that its a huge problem. I am going to follow that up this week with another post about it and I'll keep pushing against it.

The purpose of this system is pretty obvious its to prevent you from putting up all your items in storage for 9999999 and then letting it sit around only visiting once a month to keep them back on the vendor. I understand that motiviation by the devs but this system just punishes too many legitimate merchants who might have a slow period.



----------------------------------
Chataka Windae
Rifleman/Combat Medic
CEO, Windae Enterprises
Mesric Sanctuary Founder



LadyGrey
Mon Sep 20, 2004 8:46 am
#8

lisasdarren, I apologize for my attack on you. It was unwarranted. I should never ever post in this forum before I have had breakfast and my morning tea. I was angry, and took it out on you. I am ashamed of myself.




/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
LadyGrey

Don't let the negative AFKophobes get you down. Play the game however you want.

Is the beta testing almost over for this game?
lisasdarren
Mon Sep 20, 2004 8:57 am
#9






LadyGrey wrote:

lisasdarren, I apologize for my attack on you. It was unwarranted. I should never ever post in this forum before I have had breakfast and my morning tea. I was angry, and took it out on you. I am ashamed of myself.




No Problem... and I accept your apology.#






Trax Treort - Rifleman, Fencer & Imperial Pilot
Sepen
Mon Sep 20, 2004 9:21 am
#10


This is a stupid game mechanic and it needs to go.


If I take a two or three week vacation or business trip, and it happens that one of my LEGITIMATE vendors has a slow period and gets deleted, along with all its stock and maintenance, I'll quit the game. (Go ahead, SOE, and search all my posts and see how many "I'm gonna quit" messages I post. This is the only or nearly only one, since my sign-up date. Only bone-headed game mechanics, LIKE THIS ONE, bring me to that point. It isn't an idle "he's gonna quit every week now for the past year" promise that is never fulfilled, like many make.)


Whatever the so-called "reason" behind this game mechanic, it simply puts INNOCENT, LEGITIMATE players at high-risk. And it is not acceptable.


If SOE REALLY thinks they need this type of game mechanic, then they need a HOLDING PEN for all the items on that vendor. All items should go in there and all maintenance should be returned to the owners bank.


The idea of losing all the stuff and maintenance on a vendor over this just has me steaming...


Martek
McSassy
Mon Sep 20, 2004 10:11 am
#11


/agree


And, I'm sure you've heard all the arguments so far, but I need to vent a bit more.


It took me well over 2 weeks to get a sale with my very first vendor (almost a year ago now)because I couldn't yet advertise on the map and I was unwilling to spam the starport.This will hurt new merchants as well as those of us that aremore established.


Some of you may be99.99% surethat you'll get a sale within 2 weeks from each and every one of your vendors while you're on vacation or whatever. But, would you bet your vendors' stock and prepaid maintenance feeson that? Because that's what we'll be doing if this isn't changed.


Granted, you could pay people to list something on your vendor while you're gone, but why should you have to do that? Don't enough people do that to grind merchant xp as it is?


Doc, thanks again (and again and again) for pushing so hard on this point! Your help is invaluable to the rest of us.





Well, I'm better than dirt! Well, most kinds of dirt.
I mean, not that fancy store-bought dirt.
That stuff's loaded with nutrients. I can't compete with that stuff.

Beladona
Mon Sep 20, 2004 6:55 pm
#12

i agree 100% with the subject line.


I was very happy with my 2 vendors before the proposed vendor nerf/changes... when the changes were "initially" purposed/ discussed (100ish items/ vendor, etc) i spread out my items onto 5 vendors to prepare. Now, with this latestinsultI must keep constant track of individual sales so they don't poof. (or at least sothere's less chance of them poofing). It's just too much of a headache.


The only logical explination i can come up with for this is that they WANT players to loose large chunks of inventory for relief of database "strain", and they don't mind if a large porportion of the merchant profession quits, (merchants, especially crafter/merchantsadmitadely have one of the higher item load : player ratios for obvious reasons).


I've changed my billing to monthly as well.
Warryyr
Tue Sep 21, 2004 11:51 am
#13






DocSavag wrote:

The purpose of this system is pretty obvious its to prevent you from putting up all your items in storage for 9999999 and then letting it sit around only visiting once a month to keep them back on the vendor. I understand that motiviation by the devs but this system just punishes too many legitimate merchants who might have a slow period.




Hey Doc, if that's the purpose of this system, it has failed miserably and serves no purpose.


As stated today in the Publish 10.3 Patch Notes:



  • Unused Vendors - Vendors who go too long without being used will get deleted from the game. The only events that constitute use are placing a new item for sale on the vendor, or a customer buying an item from the vendor. Checking a vendor's status, paying maintenance, withdrawing sales, having offers placed, or accepting offers are all events that do not reset the Last Used timer. If a vendor goes 14 days without having a new item placed for sale, or an item purchased, then the vendor gets flagged as Unused. If a vendor remains Unused for a 14 days, it becomes in danger of getting deleted. When this happens, the player will be sent an email warning. If the vendor continues to be unused for an additional 14 days, the vendor gets deleted. Any items for sale on the vendor, items in the Stock Room, and offers to that vendor will be deleted with the vendor.

  • Vendors used as storage: Not stopped by this system. Withdraw sale of storage items. Retrieve. Resell. Repeat. Whammo bammo, a "new item" to "sell" on your vendor. The Devs implemented a very poor solution to a problem they may never fix.


    Their best option would have been to ask players to report vendors used as storage (it's SOOOO blatant when they are used that way) and made it against the ToS, enforced, to misuse vendors in this manner. Maybe have some of CSR's who are so busy responding to tickets that they "can't do anything, stop submitting tickets" and maybe have them run around on galaxies and check out random vendors. They don't need to stop everyone, they just need to nail a select few, and the rest will fear the hammer coming down on them. It's how police try to deter crime.Fear over results. Fear of potential punishment. Sure, you won't stop em all, but you'll convince most it's not worth the hassle or potential repercussions.


    This "function" only hurts Merchants who are having a bad streak of luck with selling stuff. If I have my skills, paid my maintenance, and have stock in my vendor, they should leave my business alone.


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