Merchant Archive
Thread: Merchants, Why do you stand for this outrage?
Page 1 of 6
Ace4Brit
Sat Mar 06, 2004 8:38 pm
#1
If an exploit allowed a non-smuggler to slice weapons and armor, do you think the smugglers wouldnt have that be their #1 gripe?
What about BH's, if anyone could take a bounty hunter mission, wouldnt there be uproar there?
And entertainers, if anyone could heal their own BF, what would they say?
Why, then, do you not make it your first priority to squelch the exploit that is used constantly to render your services unneccessary?
I am talking about the fact that anyone can pick up novice artisan then business 3, place a vendor, then drop it all and still keep the vendor. This is a smack in the face to all of you who spend the skill points on your proffession, why do you not say something about it?
Your proffession should include a number of people who have wares to sell, but cannot spend the skill points on merchant, so they pay you to sell their stuff.
I think they should make it so that anyone who does not have at least business 3 should not be able to maintain a vendor: Stock it, maintanance it, etc...
What about BH's, if anyone could take a bounty hunter mission, wouldnt there be uproar there?
And entertainers, if anyone could heal their own BF, what would they say?
Why, then, do you not make it your first priority to squelch the exploit that is used constantly to render your services unneccessary?
I am talking about the fact that anyone can pick up novice artisan then business 3, place a vendor, then drop it all and still keep the vendor. This is a smack in the face to all of you who spend the skill points on your proffession, why do you not say something about it?
Your proffession should include a number of people who have wares to sell, but cannot spend the skill points on merchant, so they pay you to sell their stuff.
I think they should make it so that anyone who does not have at least business 3 should not be able to maintain a vendor: Stock it, maintanance it, etc...
Message Edited by Ace4Brit on 03-06-2004 10:45 PM
MasterJian
Sun Mar 07, 2004 3:28 am
#2
/agree
I can speak for myself when I say that as a merchant this IS my number one issue.. Unfortunately if they try to fix it, it will become the number one issue of just about everyone else.. I guess this is like one of those sorta exploits that stay in by popular demand.. Like afk macroing.. I beleive the response to that issue by Thunderheart was that they were leaving it in, because they want it to be something that everyone can do fairly.. Rather then just the elite few who can figure out how to work around the system..
I can speak for myself when I say that as a merchant this IS my number one issue.. Unfortunately if they try to fix it, it will become the number one issue of just about everyone else.. I guess this is like one of those sorta exploits that stay in by popular demand.. Like afk macroing.. I beleive the response to that issue by Thunderheart was that they were leaving it in, because they want it to be something that everyone can do fairly.. Rather then just the elite few who can figure out how to work around the system..
Zanholo
Sun Mar 07, 2004 11:35 am
#3
AGREE.
It's sad and shows total lack of any backbone by the devs that they allow this to go on and on. Make the call, repair the system to adhere to rules in place, give everyone a warning mail with a 30 period to remove all goods from non-qualified vendors.
At the 30 day mark, all exploit vendors will poof and Merchants would finally be treated like every other profession; their skills will no longer be exploited by the rest of the community with the blessing of SOE.
/rude SOE till you fix this.
Message Edited by Zanholo on 03-07-2004 10:36 AM
Naufragus
Sun Mar 07, 2004 11:54 am
#4
many of us dont really think having vendors is a "SKILL"...
or that merchant is a full fledged profession.
few people are merchants only...all the skill does is allow crafters to sell their goods.
most people drop the skills after a while because of their limited usefullness....i have no desire to be a master again...nothing actually helped me sell any more
it doesnt matter to me how many vendors anyone has.....
it is WHAT you are selling, not how you sell it.
someone with crappy merch and 10 vendors is not better than someone with great merch and one biz 3 vendor.
its doent matter.....our skills are simply window dressing
like politician and entertainer, merchant should be an add on, and the skills boxes should only cost halfthe points of otehr professions.
just leave merchant as is and move on.
Naufragus
Sun Mar 07, 2004 4:58 pm
#5
ewach has it right....
the number of vendors someonelse has in no way effects me....
it doesnt harm my business in any way....
if all of the so called "illegal" vendors vanished tomorrow, it would not imporve anything for me
IT DOESNT REALLY MATTER
people will just get business 3 and we will all have to look at those ugly boxes....
i wouldnt care if the even took the vendor skill away....
just make vendors craftable by archtects and droid engineers and just let people by them
there is absoulutly no reason to have this profession in the game...
leave well enough alone....once the devs start screwing with vendors we are going to other changes we will all hate...
truth of the matter is aside from the 5-6 loudmouths who post on this forum, no one else cares about or considers it a big issue.
this profession is an all around waste of skill points...
MasterJian
Mon Mar 08, 2004 12:47 am
#6
Naufragus I was just going to be nice and ignore your first post rather then getting into, but after your second post I changed my mind..
Naufragus wrote:many of us dont really think having vendors is a "SKILL"...or that merchant is a full fledged profession.
And many people don't really think that Image Designing is really a skill or a full fledged proffession either.. I don't see people running to the ID forums to protest their existence and tell them to stop asking for improvements.. Gee I wonder why..few people are merchants only...all the skill does is allow crafters to sell their goods.
Hmmm interesting.. Well, let me see I don't know a single person who is a Medic only.. There's this cool thing that allows you to make your template and combine skills. So to your logic, if someone chooses to be a Pistoleer and a Medic, that means the medic proffession is worthless and we should just allow the pistoleers to heal themselves? I mean all the skill does is allow them to heal faster after combat, and get rid of their own wounds..most people drop the skills after a while because of their limited usefullness....i have no desire to be a master again...nothing actually helped me sell any more
Gee well maybe that means we should be asking them to add some usefulness to the proffession.. *gasp*.. You mean we have a reason to complain?it doesnt matter to me how many vendors anyone has.....
Doesn't matter to me either as long as they are legit..it is WHAT you are selling, not how you sell it.someone with crappy merch and 10 vendors is not better than someone with great merch and one biz 3 vendor.its doent matter.....our skills are simply window dressinglike politician and entertainer, merchant should be an add on, and the skills boxes should only cost halfthe points of otehr professions.
Umm.. Funny thing, Politician and Entertainer are both full proffessions that require the same number of skill points as any other proffession..just leave merchant as is and move on.
Ya know what.. Why don't you go over to the weaponsmith boards where they are complaining about the upcomming experimentation changes and tell them to just leave it as it is and move on? hmm? Those of us who have put our skillpoints into this proffession chose to do so because this is what we want to be.. We may not like the way the proffession is set up right now, but very few people do like the way their proffessions are.. We have just as much right as anyone else to ask for improvements and want to see things changed.. If you think this is a worthless proffession, then YOU move on..
Naufragus wrote:ewach has it right....
the number of vendors someonelse has in no way effects me....
*Too bad it's not all about you eh?*it doesnt harm my business in any way....
Hmm it harms mine.. *see above*if all of the so called "illegal" vendors vanished tomorrow, it would not imporve anything for me
*see above*IT DOESNT REALLY MATTER
people will just get business 3 and we will all have to look at those ugly boxes....
People will get business 3, and if they do the vendor cap nerf in a manner that is actually considerate to actual merchants, at business 3 they will be able to store just a small number of items, rather then the thousands they store now, causing the database problems that are the reason for the vendor nerf to begin with.. If they spread the extra items per vendor out amongst all 16 merchant boxes and a nice increase in Master Merchant, more then likley people will resort to cross server lot trades for storage, and the heat will be off the merchants..i wouldnt care if the even took the vendor skill away....
*See above*just make vendors craftable by archtects and droid engineers and just let people by them
there is absoulutly no reason to have this profession in the game...
I've heard the same thing said about a lot of proffessions actually.. Every time one proffession somehow affects another, people run to say that very same thing..leave well enough alone....once the devs start screwing with vendors we are going to other changes we will all hate...
truth of the matter is aside from the 5-6 loudmouths who post on this forum, no one else cares about or considers it a big issue.
LOL.. That would probably be because probably 65-70% of the people in this game are using that exploit, so I'm sure they don't want to see it fixed..this profession is an all around waste of skill points...
Then "move on"..
Message Edited by MasterJian on 03-08-2004 01:48 AM
Ace4Brit
Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:40 am
#7
Naufragus wrote:many of us dont really think having vendors is a "SKILL"...or that merchant is a full fledged profession.few people are merchants only...all the skill does is allow crafters to sell their goods.most people drop the skills after a while because of their limited usefullness....i have no desire to be a master again...nothing actually helped me sell any moreit doesnt matter to me how many vendors anyone has.....it is WHAT you are selling, not how you sell it.someone with crappy merch and 10 vendors is not better than someone with great merch and one biz 3 vendor.its doent matter.....our skills are simply window dressinglike politician and entertainer, merchant should be an add on, and the skills boxes should only cost halfthe points of otehr professions.just leave merchant as is and move on.
I am sorry, but i still maintain that anyone who wants to have his own vendor should spend the 24 skill points to do so (novice artisan plus business 1,2,3). The fact that some people found a way around it is totally unacceptable, and should result in the same crackdown on every possible way to exploit it as was recently seen on the "work arounds" used to slice sabers.
People should have to make a choice, either spend the points on business 3, or if you need the points for your uber-template, hire a merchant to sell your stuff.
Ewach
Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:48 am
#8
Rather than making retaining vendors your number one issue, merchants should be clamoring for more skills/tools to enable them to actually BE a merchant.
Right now, trying to market items for someone else is very labor intensive and difficult to track. Essentially, under the current system, there's two basic mechanisms: buy wholesale or sell on consignment; both of which have their problems.
Buy Wholesale approach- Crafter offers items to your vendor at discounted value (perhaps 80% of expected market price. Disadvantage: Requires merchant to front the capital for the product and have a wide knowledge of prices across a broad spectrum of products.
Consignment approach - Crafter offers item to your vendor for "free" (ok - 1 credit, as close as you can get) and you sell for agreed market price. Afterwards, pay the crafter the proceeds less a commission. Disadvantage: Serious paperwork involved with trying to keep track of sales, owners and commissions owed.
Why do I say this should be your number one issue, and not the fact that a non-merchant can keep and operate vendors?
Because until the underlying system is fixed, dedicated crafters will simply get an alt account to mule merchant skills and they will still not use player merchants.
The "cost of entry" for crafters to use other merchants is too high right now. Not in credits, but in time, effort and difficultyto do it. Make the process easier and you may find more crafters concentrating more on making their products and less time trying to market them.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Background: In the spirit of disclosure, to provide context for my comments above, I'll explain my personal merchant experience.
Last summer opened a powerup shop as a Master Artisan. Eventually progressed to a few Merchant skills to obtain more features and vendors. However, I peeled back skills tonovicea short time before some of the improvements came in - such as house signs, merchant tents, etc.
Wasn't too interested in the holocron frenzy, but when Christmas holocrons came around and I receive a couple for free, decided to see what it had to say. Little blue cube whispers "Master Merchant" - so off I go. Conveniently I was still Novice with quite a bit of accumulated Merchant XP, so it came quickly.
My primary profession is Master Architect and I"m also a Mayor so I have points thrown into that skill point sink of Politician. Next I decided to Master Marksman so Merchant skills had to go.
Where am I now? Master Architect/Master Marksman/Master Artisan/Politician. Still have five NPC vendors and one droid vendor (protocol droid).
My only regret? Not reprogramming all the audibles on my vendors before I dropped skills. I still have one I use that says "I'm not stocked yet".
Why did I keep the vendors? Because the current system allows it.
Faellyn
Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:50 am
#9
Good Grief Ace4Brit,we've only opened 10,000 or so threads on this very topic here in the Merchant forum since last June. But thank you for popping in tograce us with yourenlightened viewpoint that would never have occured to any of the rest of us.
roysterer
Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:01 am
#10
The Merchant profession is a vestige of the pre-release player economy conceptwhose usefulness as a standalone profession in the current economy is very limited. And, as far as I can see, there's no way to fix it without completely overhauling the entire non-combat portion of the game. So I say let people have their vendors. Let's not punish everyone because merchants want to feel useful. I can understand the anger. I mean, it upsets me too that there cannot be pure merchants, but I really don't believe it's possible anymore. So, let's quit calling each other exploiters and accept that the profession does not live up to our expectations of it.
Naufragus
Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:38 am
#11
MasterJian wrote:
blah blah blah
please explain how someone else having vendors effects you.?
what difference does it make?
how does it hurt your business?
seriously....only the 5-6 people who bother to post here have their panties in a wad....when there was another vendor issue onm the main forum it had 20 pages of replies....this forum is lucky if any thing goes to page 2..what does that tell you. it tells me that 99% of the game do not consider themselves "merchants" all they want is the vendors...
as i said lets just make vendors craftable by archtects andDE'sor jsut change the name of the profesion to merchandising.
it is a farce to make someone waste 18 skill points to simply put a shirt on a vendor...
sorry but as a tailor if you take away peoples vendors they will just move to the bazaar, undercut you and kill you business even more
Naufragus
Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:41 am
#12
MasterJian wrote:
this profession is an all around waste of skill points...
Then "move on"..
i would LOOOOOOOOOVE to.....I was merchant in beta...in live even wasted all the points on master briefly....
the only reason i keep the skills i have now is for the vendors..Like the other 99% of players.
all anyone wants is the vendors.
i think you are just one of those people who is into their titles and for waht ever reason just want to flaunt some master merchant tag
Naufragus
Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:47 am
#13
and as far as creating usefullness.. what the hell would you add?
you want merchants to be the only distibuters?
well that would hurt the game really as there would be far far fewer shops selling things...NOT enough to support all thye crafters.
all people would be doing is basiaclly buying peoples other goods and reselling them. you can already do this now,
no ones suggestions on this forum really offer anything in the way of real usefullness...'
every suggestion have read the past few months basically boils down to giving "vendors" addiional functions..not the players...
all this profession is about is vending machines.
Page 1 of 6