CUEmu - Thread Posts

zukem

Sun Aug 08, 2004 10:17 am

I just realized that there are two types of people that are opposed to this merchant change.

1) legitimate merchants that do not want to see low limits. These people have used the skill points in the merchant tree, and who are really not opposed to this nerf. But they are opposed to such low vendor maxes. If these vendor maxes were increased based on experience, so that higher level merchants can place more items than what the initial proposal was, they'd be happy. (i.e. master merchants get unlimited, merchant 4 gets 400 per)

2) Exploiters. These people are strongly opposed to any kind of change in merchant. These people are those that grinded through merchant, put up vendors, and now have no or minimal merchant skills. They have no skill points invested in merchant. With this new change, they will also eventually lose these vendors. And they will no longer be able to restock the vendor with wares. These people want private vendors at no cost to them.

So the question is which type are you. If you are type 1. Then please argue all you want about this upcoming fix, and what a possible solution might be. This fix is going to happen. It's just a question now of what the limits would be.

If you are type 2. Then really you have no business posting here.Merchant is a profession, and soon to be a very valuable profession. Just like how chef was for a good portion of the game, they are suddenly the profession to be.

Zuker - Jedi
Zuke - Commando
Bastia - Structures Trader
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Soltari-bacca

Sun Aug 08, 2004 10:28 am

#2

True enough. Good post.

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Ciirybeccaskyr

Sun Aug 08, 2004 10:50 am

#3

not true at all no one here is argueing that the skill point free vendors shouldnt go and the empty ones shouldnt get riped off the map everyone is just up in arms over the screwing off all people who try tosell stuff in this game. My accoutns are already cancled an if this goes in will stay that way

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mhal9000

Sun Aug 08, 2004 10:55 am

#4

Ah but people are arguing that, just go look at most of the threads that are supporting the removal of merchant as a playable class. I can 95% guarantee that everyone agreeing with those posts have vendors without the necessary skill points.

Federated ResourcesHork Haggis, Retired

Solitiri

Sun Aug 08, 2004 10:58 am

#5

Hmm that is too simplistic in nature. I was noticing that a lot of those responding are first time posters. This is the second account of the crafter/merchanter/BE/Doc.. etc. These are the ones who got the second account and sometimes third and fourth account to get master merchant so they could sell the things they make. That would alos include hunters who sell meat and hides. It is more than just a "fix the merchants" issue.

From my point of view, the issue starts at the very beginning when LucasArts insisted there is to be only one character per account. That prompted us to buy more accounts and pay more to play. The original intent of one character per account was to make it a player economy where you depend on other players, not have a crafter/hunter/merchant all on the same account. This has fed false numbers to LucasArts due to those who can afford to buy another account and do this anyway.

The problem is in the system, not in the profession. The idea of a player economy is great but the adaptation of it is not as intended. Players had to get second accounts because of the point system and lack of ability to get the items they needed, when they needed them. For crafters it was to get a merchant because the trust is not there to rent a merchant. You have no control over the merchant and are trusting your items to a stranger and have been burned by it.

Then you get another account so you can have a pvper or a pve character. Or even because you want a different race. Most popular reason for a second account is for lots. Crafters need lots for harvesters, housing, guild halls. Guild halls alone are 7 or 9 lots depending on the planet type of structure. My one account holds a guildhall for the guild. My other account has the houses for the merchants. I have no lots left for maybe one or two harvesters. I have to spend a whold damn day looking for special resources on other merchants or by surveying and then begging to borrow someone else's lots.

This is the root of the problem.

I can understand why people were getting the merchant profession, getting the vendors then dropping the profession. Not everyone can afford 2 accounts let alone 3 or 4 of them.

Like I said in another post, we should all move to Test Center where we can have 4 characters on one account. That would solve everything but the limited amounts on vendors and that alone is an account killer.

"When Sony and Lucas set out, we said, 'How can we do this and not make another EQ?' We didn't want it to be all about Luke, or combat, or lock our players into a class. So we created a system that would allow players to switch professions during the game, and there would be a lot of gameplay around making that change. If you want to go from architect to scout we've created a system to make that happen." - Julio Torres

Scorpes2

Sun Aug 08, 2004 10:59 am

#6

Totally Agree, its an exploit pure and simple and time to return the skills to the class that belongs to it. I was a CH once, why cant i use my graul anymore, oh thats right, i surrendered the skills. I'm definently #1

Spartin

Sniped on 08-23-04 8:56pst Learned my Lesson soon after. Include sniping rules

VarnaxDespin

Sun Aug 08, 2004 11:05 am

#7

I have been a merchant since last August... sometimes I get master.. other times I jsut operate with managment 4.

Vendors are the only thing I have merchant for.... not for the planetary map (which is nice for new vendors), not for being able to dress my vendors, or have them bark annoying sales pitches, or for the un-noticable reduction invendor fees... or for the spam droids..

If I am severly limited by the amount of items I can stock on my vendors I will drop merchant, save my skill pointsand operate via the forums and email....

I can see doing away with the merchant class if the limits are even remotely close to the ones propossed. IMO saying a master merchant can only stock 110 items per vendor is like saying a master smuggler can only slice 110 times a day, or a master rifleman can only shoot their rifle 110 times per day... Vendors are our main skill and to limit our main skills use to a number isabsurd IMO.

If the caps are introduced, then merchant is a dead class and might as well be removed.

Message Edited by VarnaxDespin on 08-08-2004 11:07 AM

Varnax Despin

zukem

Sun Aug 08, 2004 11:20 am

#8

Now to those merchants out there. Would you be more acceptable to this fix if one of these two things happen? I'm just pulling these numbers out of the air, and they have no validity. Just trying to see the common ground that the merchants can live with. These figures are per vendor, and not for all vendors.

A) Master merchant - unlimited. Management 4 - 400, management 3 - 200, management 2 - 100, management 1 - 50, business 4 - 25

B) Master merchant - unlimited. Management skill boxes +50. All other merchant skill boxes +25. business 4 +25.

Zuker - Jedi
Zuke - Commando
Bastia - Structures Trader
SPAM Sales - South of Coronet Starport 84, -5588 Sales Inventory Lottery

fyreblayd28

Sun Aug 08, 2004 11:26 am

#9

zukem wrote:

I just realized that there are two types of people that are opposed to this merchant change.

1) legitimate merchants that do not want to see low limits. These people have used the skill points in the merchant tree, and who are really not opposed to this nerf. But they are opposed to such low vendor maxes. If these vendor maxes were increased based on experience, so that higher level merchants can place more items than what the initial proposal was, they'd be happy. (i.e. master merchants get unlimited, merchant 4 gets 400 per)

2) Exploiters. These people are strongly opposed to any kind of change in merchant. These people are those that grinded through merchant, put up vendors, and now have no or minimal merchant skills. They have no skill points invested in merchant. With this new change, they will also eventually lose these vendors. And they will no longer be able to restock the vendor with wares. These people want private vendors at no cost to them.

So the question is which type are you. If you are type 1. Then please argue all you want about this upcoming fix, and what a possible solution might be. This fix is going to happen. It's just a question now of what the limits would be.

If you are type 2. Then really you have no business posting here.Merchant is a profession, and soon to be a very valuable profession. Just like how chef was for a good portion of the game, they are suddenly the profession to be.

So where do I fall in your only two types of people? I am not a merchant on either of my characters. I do not have vendors on either of my characters. I must be some mysterious 3rd type you failed to recognize.

3) Angry. These are the people that are strongly opposed to the reduction in merchant as planned. These people are those that realize that everything in the game that you need to buy will dry up. That the weapons you need will not be arround or if they are it is on someplace like Rori that you never go to and would never think to check. That the meds that some Docs only buy will no longer be sold. That when your armor runs out instead of paying as low as 340k for a set you will see them more like 500k to 600k for a low end set. That instead of just replacing my chest peice you will have to buy a whole new set. That there will not be any interesting items that might just look good in a house out there because it wastes space on a needed vendor. These are the people that do not want a vendor because it costs them credits and they think they are ugly in thier house.

Oh yes I am upset. I am not saying not to fix it but there has to be some middle ground somewhere. They are way too low for them to be worth time. People like doctors that just sell meds to make thier cash will be out of business. I know I can not stand having my doc make the meds I need. I do not want to put harvesters out and pray. I do not want the survey skills as it takes that 15 points for another novice skill. I do not want my fighter to go under because he can no longer afford to repair his armor. He will not be able to find the weapons he needs because it will force the armorsmith to carry just a handful of types. Do I think that someone with not merchant or business skills should have a vendor....not really. But the 6k max cap on the bazaars make sure that no one can sell on there well.

SOE is famous for fixing one problem while nerfing something in it's place. They never seem to think things through. This is what I am upset about. They need to revamp the bazaars, take away vendors from those not qualified, cap the number of items on the vendors but not so low they are useless, and make it so that if you do not pay maint fees the vendor goes bye bye with your stuff. . I am not a merchant and even I see the nightmare that is to come.

PS: Maybe they can get rid of those two vendors that my deleted charcter still has in one shop and house. He has been gone for monthes and I took all maint money out of them so they would decay. Funny they are still there and can not be removed short of taking down the house and shop. (shop is not mine)

VarnaxDespin

Sun Aug 08, 2004 11:50 am

#10

zukem wrote:

Now to those merchants out there. Would you be more acceptable to this fix if one of these two things happen? I'm just pulling these numbers out of the air, and they have no validity. Just trying to see the common ground that the merchants can live with. These figures are per vendor, and not for all vendors.

A) Master merchant - unlimited. Management 4 - 400, management 3 - 200, management 2 - 100, management 1 - 50, business 4 - 25

B) Master merchant - unlimited. Management skill boxes +50. All other merchant skill boxes +25. business 4 +25.

Regardless what the number ends up being, any limitation of our main skill is still a limitation. Now Doc has said the proposed numbers will most likely go up... but he is sure they wont go even as high a few thousand for even master merchant.

The issue for me then becomes what is the value of having a vendor and devoting the skill points. I currently have novice artisan (15sp) business 4 (14sp) novice merchant (6sp) and managment 4 (14sp) for a grand total of 49sp spent on being able to have the # of vendors I desire... So 1/5 of my total skill points are now devoted to the abilty to have vendors, or in other words;

I spend 1/5th of my allotted skill points to be able to sellitems over 6kcrin this game.

I could do away with all but 1 vendor if I could keep the unlimited # of items.

I could master merchant again and maintain it if I could keep unlimited # of items. (another 43sp) But that make 37% of all my skill points devoted to just having the same thing I have now using only 20% of my sp.

But I according to our correspondant, who I am sure is working for us as best he can, the unlimted # of items is even being considered by the devs...

DocSavag wrote:

You will not get unlimited items out of this. Its not going to happen. Get it out of your head. We need counter proposals.

So that leaves us with how much of a reduction are we going to face... if the final number does not make it worth my investment of sp I will not retain merchant. If it ruins the games economy I will prob quit.

The question we should be asking is not what number is acceptable for everyone, rather;

How doesanvendor item limitenhance or balance we the Players general game play?

Until this question is answered I cannot see why we are discussing numbers as to what we each of us think is reasonable amount of items to have on our vendors.

What is reasonable to you is not reasonable to me, all the numbers, reconfiguring of skill trees etc..are being discussed AS IF this change must take place in order for us to play... well as far as I am concenred, vendor item limits has not been a player issue since the number became infinite.

If Sony comes out andtells usthey are going to raise the monthly fee to $150 a month and after all the complaints, settles to only raise it to $75 a month, I dont see that as a compromise...its still and absurd number, much like the propossed vendor limits...

If vendors are limited from infinite to 100, 1000, or 1mil items it is still to much of a nerf. You cant go from unlimited amounts to very very small finite amounts and expect to maintain any sense of rational perspective.

We only have one skill..the ability to sell items on vendors ....The limitation of that skill does not enhance anyones game play.

So I will stand by the infintie number... if the dev's dont care and impliment a drastic cut, I will at the very least drop merchant, and most likely the game.

Message Edited by VarnaxDespin on 08-08-2004 12:03 PM

Varnax Despin

SpacePunk

Sun Aug 08, 2004 11:58 am

#11

After reading Solitiri's post the thought came to me that SOE could be doing this so people have to buy MORE accounts. Maybe it's me, or maybe it's the evil laughter in the background.

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Lotussutol

Sun Aug 08, 2004 1:06 pm

#12

Is merchant a profession??? what can you do as MASTER MERCHANT alone...no other skills???

As artisan 0040 master merchant...what can you do?

1. you can change signs on peoples houses

2. you can place vendors.

3. you can sell these items that you can make

[S] Ambient Solar Energy Surveyin..
[S] Barrel
[S] Bofa Treat
[S] Bowcaster
[S] CDEF Carbine
[S] CDEF Pistol
[S] CDEF Rifle
[S] Casual Pants
[S] Casual Shoes
[S] Chance Cube
[S] Chemical Survey Device
[S] Fishing Pole
[S] Flora Survey Tool
[S] Gas Pocket Survey Device
[S] Generic Crafting Tool
[S] Generic Melee Weapon Kit
[S] Grip
[S] Mineral Survey Device
[S] Simple Shirt
[S] Six Sided Dice Set
[S] Small Glass
[S] Spiced Tea
[S] Survival Knife
[S] Ten Sided Dice Set
[S] Travel Biscuits
[S] Type 1 Firework
[S] Type 2 Firework
[S] Type 3 Firework
[S] Water Survey Device
[S] Wind Current Surveying Tool
[S] Wookiee Hide Jerkin

and Resources....

That is IT...that is what the merchant profession boils down too in its simplest form.

Merchants can say all they want that if the exploited vendors are shut down we will be able to sell master armorsmith/master weaponsmith items for them and we will both make money.

Fact is no one or no one with a business sense is going to trust there goods to a Master Merchant to sell...

If the Master Merchant sells the goods and keeps the money SOE will not help out the AS/WS...why? because it is a well known rule that when you trade items to another player you have to get something in return at that point.

Is a AS/WS going to sell to a Master Merchant at a discount so the merchant can make money??? I doubt it very seriously.

A master merchant/master smuggler combo might work. then you could buy gear and slice it and mark it up to sell for more.

Sad part is...Merchant Class would be better off deleted and have the vendor placement skills put into the crafting classes and have the sign changing skill put in politican and or master artisan.

Merchant is the one class that if you have it and it alone there is nothing you can do.

And Merchant Revamp...yeah there are tons of great ideas out there to make the class GREAT...but when is that going to happen? It won't be for at least a year.

Sorry that my post is negative but I have been a merchant since the first week the game came out and I want my skill points back!

Khristen

Sun Aug 08, 2004 1:08 pm

#13

mhal9000 wrote:

Ah but people are arguing that, just go look at most of the threads that are supporting the removal of merchant as a playable class. I can 95% guarantee that everyone agreeing with those posts have vendors without the necessary skill points.

This is not true. I rightfully have every vendor in my shop. If you look a little closer, you'll see that there is a very large number of people who are saying "I'm a merchant x-x-x-x and....". No, I have no sympathy for the ones saying "But I dropped merchant and I don't have the skill points to pick it back up again. That is the exploit.

The vendor cap as it stands now will completely cripple the merchant crafters (as most merchants seem to be crafters). It will also hit the player base hard as the players will no longer be able to find the items that they want. There is no positive for the players in this change.

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Merchant Archive

Thread: Two types of people opposed to this merchant change