Merchant Archive
Thread: Anyone notice Large Scale Craft Organizations quiting?
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Lecivius
Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:11 pm
#1
This in lieu of the impending Merchant changes. The changes themselves are discussed elsewhere, but in the last 5 days 4 large scale crafting organizations on my server (Corbantis)have posted "Closing" sales on the trade forums here. Are the larger "Corporations" doing the same thing on other servers?
Seems a might premature, since "The Word" has not come down yet. Just wondering if this is a gamewide trend, or just a short term server trend.
VarnaxDespin
Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:18 pm
#2
Valcyn has had some "big sales" myself included as people start liquidation stock. I have heard a bunch of "I am going to quit" rumblings, but as of this time I am only aware of 5merchant/crafters who quit my server since this idea was proposed and went onto TC. I am not sure if they all quit as a direct result or not.. I do know one was a mass volume resource dealer though.
Tirgwystraff
Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:01 pm
#3
I play on several servers, so monitor the trade boards of 4. All 4 have mass * I'm quitting* selloffs. Some are saying it's because they're bored with crafting, others because they have less play time ( school just started back up, many businesses are hitting surge, and requireing overtime). No one came right out and said the nerf is why, but I'm betting a few are doing it for that. I'm holding off until the final announcement. As soon as they announce the nerf going live, with unacceptable limits, I'll sell off and quit too. I'm thinking the price of credits on ebay is about to drop.......
Khristen
Thu Aug 12, 2004 10:45 pm
#4
Naritus has quite a few that are stopping production until there's word on this, including myself. The thought that I'm currently 2k items over what they're proposing the limits at now is a bit frightening. 
There's a few of the "i'm quitting" ones, but mostly it's just an air of huge uncertainty as everyone's afraid to craft more. 
Muzz
Fri Aug 13, 2004 6:23 am
#5
I'm removing my sales vendors and I know of quite a few who will do the same if the planned nerf goes ahead. To keep a good selection of items stocked i'd have to spend virtually all my game time standing next to my vendors restocking.
This is an insanely absurd nerf.
Sigrun
Fri Aug 13, 2004 6:38 am
#6
Tirgwystraff wrote:
I play on several servers, so monitor the trade boards of 4. All 4 have mass * I'm quitting* selloffs. Some are saying it's because they're bored with crafting, others because they have less play time ( school just started back up, many businesses are hitting surge, and requireing overtime). No one came right out and said the nerf is why, but I'm betting a few are doing it for that. I'm holding off until the final announcement. As soon as they announce the nerf going live, with unacceptable limits, I'll sell off and quit too. I'm thinking the price of credits on ebay is about to drop.......
This is actually a reasonable guage on what the economy is doing. Supply & Demand works there as well. One can check the major credit reseller sites to discern what's happening on a server-by-server basis. The thought here is that the lower the value of the credit, the more credits available for sale, the more long-term merchants are exiting the profession.
So let's look at the numbers from one of the larger credit resellers - how much are they BUYING credits for, today (no URL's for obvious reasons):
Realm/ServerItemUnit PriceMin PurchaseMax Purcahse
Ahazi 1 Million Credits $0.00 0 0
Bloodfin 1 Million Credits $7.00 3 25
Bria 1 Million Credits $0.00 0 0
Chilastra1 Million Credits $7.00 320
Chimaera 1 Million Credits $6.00 3 20
Corbantis 1 Million Credits $0.00 0 0
Eclipse 1Million Credits $0.00 0 0
Farstar 1 Million Credits $0.00 00
Flurry 1 Million Credits $9.00 330
Gorath 1 Million Credits $7.00 3 30
Infinity1 Million Credits $9.00 3 20
Intrepid 1 Million Credits $6.00 320
Kauri 1 Million Credits $8.00 3 20
Kettemoor 1Million Credits $9.00 3 30
Lowca 1 Million Credits $0.00 0 0
Naritus 1 Million Credits $0.00 330
Radiant 1 Million Credits $9.00 3 30
Scylla 1 Million Credits $9.00 3 30
ShadowFire 1 Million Credits $0.00 0 0
Starsider 1 Million Credits $8.00 3 30
Sunrunner 1 Million Credits $0.00 00
Tarquinas 1 Million Credits $0.00 0 0
Tempest 1 Million Credits $9.00 3 30
Valcyn 1 Million Credits $8.00 3 20
Wanderhome1 Million Credits $9.00 3 30
For comparison purposes, many servers that are at $0 today were at $10-$13 six weeks ago.
I'm no economics expert and I certainly don't follow this crap nearly as closely as SOE should be, but this clearly means that supply has outstripped demand, at least on about 1/3 of the servers. I would conjecture that this is occuring because a) students are headed back to school and cashing out their summers' earnings from SW:G, b) merchants are leaving in anticipation of this nerf, and c) fewer people are buying credits.
Message Edited by Sigrun on 08-13-2004 06:39 AM
joined42904
Fri Aug 13, 2004 7:37 am
#7
Where do those ebay credits come from?
Just folks who are quitting? (I suspect they come from oligopolists who "play" this game for a living.)
If the large crafters quit, that just makes more room for the little guy. No one should assume that his or her shoes are so big that no one else can fill them if they leave.
So large scale crafting organizations leave. Big deal. They know that their oligopolies are about to be crushed. The sooner they get out the better they will do. I'm about to buy a bunch of resources in one quitting auction. That means my credit supply will be diminished and I won't be able to buy in the next quitting auction.
Credits follow supply and demand also. Demand will go up when JTL comes out. I can't see a reason for demand for ebay credits to rise. Can you? Some oligopolists quit and flood the ebay market with credits...well...the price will drop. I don't see a problem here except that SOE isn't enforcing the EULA and banning the accounts of these ebayers. But that's another story.
I see no correlation between the temporary state of affairs on ebay and the health of the in-game economy. There will be a brief "burp" of the in-game economy as folks stock up from going out of business sales and don't require goods for a while. Then the economy will be healthy again.
Don't panic. Everything is going to be ok.
EnigmaBSc
Fri Aug 13, 2004 8:00 am
#8
joined42904 will you please stop going on about oligopolists. Oligopolys are not a problem in SWG. They cannot exist. I will show why in a minute. The "problem" is large successful businesses making entry into a business area slower, less rewarding and less fun for new crafters. That is the problem that has to be dealt with, nothing to do with oligopolys.
From Dictionary.com:
oligopoly
A market condition in which sellers are so few that the actions of any one of them will materially affect price and have a measurable impact on competitors.
I run a medium sized business. I mine all my own resources and sell at a fixed price based on the cost of mining those resources. Nobody else can stop me from mining resources therefore they cannot materially affect the price of my goods and therefore an oligopoly can not exist.
oligopoly
A market in which a limited number of sellers follow the lead of a single major firm. For example, the domestic automobile market was long characterized as an oligopoly, with American Motors, Chrysler, and Ford following the pricing lead of industry giant General Motors.
My prices are based on my costs. If major sellers increase their costs I will not follow. I am sure there are many crafters on all servers with the same opinions. This is a more difficult definition to refute because it is based on behaviour, not rules. Even so, any such oligopoly can be broken by a new crafter - see my response to the first definition.
oligopoly
a market in which control over the supply of a commodity is in the hands of a small number of producers and each one can influence prices and affect competitors.
Supply is not controlled by any single group of people. Anyone who wants a particular organic or inorganic resource has the ability to get them. It may mean surrendering skill points to do so but it is always possible. You could argue that a small number of producers can control the supply of old best-of-server resources, but over the course of the months that it should take you to master an elite crafting profession there will be plenty of spawns of new best-of-server resources. You may have to wait a while to be able to match or better the existing crafters quality of product, but it can be done. Skill tapes could be another item you would point to as allowing an oligopoly, but the fact is that the existing crafters cannot control all the sources. They can compete for them and win, but they cannot control them. There is a difference.
Now please tell me from the above three definitions, or another reliable definition you can supply, how an oligopoly can exist in SWG.
EnigmaBSc
From Dictionary.com:
oligopoly
A market condition in which sellers are so few that the actions of any one of them will materially affect price and have a measurable impact on competitors.
I run a medium sized business. I mine all my own resources and sell at a fixed price based on the cost of mining those resources. Nobody else can stop me from mining resources therefore they cannot materially affect the price of my goods and therefore an oligopoly can not exist.
oligopoly
A market in which a limited number of sellers follow the lead of a single major firm. For example, the domestic automobile market was long characterized as an oligopoly, with American Motors, Chrysler, and Ford following the pricing lead of industry giant General Motors.
My prices are based on my costs. If major sellers increase their costs I will not follow. I am sure there are many crafters on all servers with the same opinions. This is a more difficult definition to refute because it is based on behaviour, not rules. Even so, any such oligopoly can be broken by a new crafter - see my response to the first definition.
oligopoly
a market in which control over the supply of a commodity is in the hands of a small number of producers and each one can influence prices and affect competitors.
Supply is not controlled by any single group of people. Anyone who wants a particular organic or inorganic resource has the ability to get them. It may mean surrendering skill points to do so but it is always possible. You could argue that a small number of producers can control the supply of old best-of-server resources, but over the course of the months that it should take you to master an elite crafting profession there will be plenty of spawns of new best-of-server resources. You may have to wait a while to be able to match or better the existing crafters quality of product, but it can be done. Skill tapes could be another item you would point to as allowing an oligopoly, but the fact is that the existing crafters cannot control all the sources. They can compete for them and win, but they cannot control them. There is a difference.
Now please tell me from the above three definitions, or another reliable definition you can supply, how an oligopoly can exist in SWG.
EnigmaBSc
Sigrun
Fri Aug 13, 2004 8:01 am
#9
joined42904 wrote:
Where do those ebay credits come from?
Just folks who are quitting? (I suspect they come from oligopolists who "play" this game for a living.)
If the large crafters quit, that just makes more room for the little guy. No one should assume that his or her shoes are so big that no one else can fill them if they leave.
Yay! Now we can buy inferior goods from the newbs because the devs forced out everyone who knows how to make a quality product! Oh joy of joys! I think I just wet myself over the excitement of the anticipation!
So large scale crafting organizations leave. Big deal. They know that their oligopolies are about to be crushed. The sooner they get out the better they will do. I'm about to buy a bunch of resources in one quitting auction. That means my credit supply will be diminished and I won't be able to buy in the next quitting auction.
Does that mean YOU are going to become an oligopoly? If not, what's to stop you? I mean, aside from the fact they cannot exist in this game?
Credits follow supply and demand also. Demand will go up when JTL comes out. I can't see a reason for demand for ebay credits to rise. Can you? Some oligopolists quit and flood the ebay market with credits...well...the price will drop. I don't see a problem here except that SOE isn't enforcing the EULA and banning the accounts of these ebayers. But that's another story.
The demand for Ebay credits might rise when JTL comes out. If you can't figure out why, you'll never be an oligopolist like you dream to one day.
I see no correlation between the temporary state of affairs on ebay and the health of the in-game economy. There will be a brief "burp" of the in-game economy as folks stock up from going out of business sales and don't require goods for a while. Then the economy will be healthy again.
But you also can't see why no oligopolies can actually exist in the game. Nor can you see why harvester certs would be hugely detrimental to the game. Nor can you see why these vendor nerfs will hurt the game. Yeah.. just you not being able to see an issue makes me feel a LOT better...
Don't panic. Everything is going to be ok.
See above.
Learn what the word "oligoploy" means. Seriously.
Message Edited by Sigrun on 08-13-2004 08:02 AM
MaDuece
Fri Aug 13, 2004 8:03 am
#10
joined42904 wrote:
Don't panic. Everything is going to be ok.
Mr. Greenspan? Is that you?
NAW can't be. You wouldn't be stupid enough to use a term like oligopoly where it doesn't apply.
joined42904
Fri Aug 13, 2004 9:30 am
#11
Oligopoly is a term that has multiple accepted meanings in general parlance. It is sometimes used as I quoted in another thread to describe a market in which a small number of producers has a large MARKET SHARE. I quoted this definition yesterday and am not going to quote the definition again.
Have you ever heard of words with multiple accepted definitions? They exist. What you folks are trying to do is take one of the accepted definitions and say that I can't use the word because the SWG economic situation doesn't fit your preferred definition whether from an economic textbook offromsome other publication.
I have had some education in economics. I am using the word in the sense of one of its accepted definitions. Those who claim I am using the word improperly, please go look it up in at least 10-15 different sourcesfor laymen, not just economics books (because economics books reflect competition on abit different basis in real life compared to in game in which cost factors are substantially different). See if you don't come across a definition...an accepted definition...that allows for use of the term oligopoly when a few producers have a large market share. I guarantee it's out there because I quoted it to the board yesterday.
EvilHomerSimpson
Fri Aug 13, 2004 9:31 am
#12
I have had some education in economics.
MaDuece
Fri Aug 13, 2004 9:35 am
#13
EvilHomerSimpson wrote:
I have had some education in economics.
Prime example of a little bit of knowledge is dangerous or why kids should not be able to handle guns.......
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