Merchant Archive
Thread: Why every Merchant poacher cry baby should be quiet....
Memnoch127 wrote:
Well id like to post my opinion on this subject and i say why cant there be some sort of comprimise?? I agree if you arent a merchant you have no business getting house cheaper and the abilty to place more venders and the abililty to register on the map. I strongly agree with all that.
What i think however that is a HUGE mistake by the Devs if they do this is make venders poof when you drop the proffession, i personally use Merchants as Dress up dolls myself, i have Rebel soldiers around town, Jailed storm troopers, Greeters welcoming you to the town and all this and it will be ALL gone ruining alote of peoples Content theyhave for there city.
I realize you want to feel special but takeing away merchants that arent clogging up the player maps and all that is the WRONG way to go, this ability is a great thing for everybody, now as far as the whole useing the vender when you dont have the Merchant skill anymore, I say why not? if they make it so only merchants can use the Overhead map and revamp that entire section why should it matter if Joe blow has a vender that sells CDEF pistols in the middle of BFE.
This could seriously cripple the Economy and make already near fed up people with bugs and other things even more outraged. DOcters couldnt sell there items and have any combat skills to back it up do to this, or atleast wont be much of a threat to anybody, i mean cant you guys atleast say: ok we wont be greedy give them all the beginer vender or something to use.
Just hard to believe you have to be skilled to plop something in a vender and sell it.
DragonScout wrote:
It is not a direct advantage. maybe a slightly indirect advantage.. but not direct at all, because there ARE other means to sell items. If they took away the bazaar, if they took away the forums, and took away the 'trade' option.. then yes, people vendor poaching would be getting a direct advantage over other people. As it is now though, it just makes life easier for some people.
nathan118 wrote:
I'd like us to focus on two of the merchant trees. HIRING and MANAGEMENT.
These two tree produce two very important skill mods: HIRING and VENDORS.
Let's look at the description given for these trees on the in-game skill tree.
For the hiring tree: "...the merchant gains the ability to PLACE more interesting types of vendors..."
For the management tree: "...grants the merchant the ability to PLACE an additional vendor..."
Nowhere do any of these skill mods give a person the ability to RUN a vendor. Why should someone who drops their merchant skills lose the ability to use one? They have lost all the abilities they had, which concerned PLACING the vendors. I see no exploit/bug. **edit** all you want about the system, but don't resort to personal attacks. Bring it on.
Sixpack
Ok,
Using your argument, Yes the trees give you the ability to PLACE the vendor, not accuallyRUN the vendor. So if you drop the skills then you have a nice Vendor decoration in your house.
Merchant: Currently there is a lot of debate about the fact that there is no skill point check for managing vendors. Is it the intent of the development team that vendors operate normally even when owned by players who no longer have the Management skill required to place that vendor?
It was never intended for players to be able to keep and manage vendors after surrendering the Management skill boxes used to acquire them. This is scheduled to be fixed in a future publish and we want to upgrade vendors also, but it’s a bit early to start talking about that.
Original Post (scroll down to the Merchant question).
DragonScout wrote:
Wrong again. It isn't assumption at all. It is hard cold fact. On the merchant forums, balkstar is more concerned with flaming people than constructive conversation, which is all I am concerned with. I was very specific. THESE forums. If I said all forums, it might be another story, I didn't. The last few days though he has been refraining from truly nasty personal attacks, but we will have to see if that change is here for good.
Your inference was not limited to these forums. You stated all you'd read were the merchant forums, but insinuated more than that:
DragonScout wrote:
Chloe.. don't worry about some of the more.... 'out-going' merchants that post here. They like to turn anything they can into a preach session about the evils of vendor poaching. After a while you get used to it I am not sure what I am going to do when they fix vendor poaching and the post count in the merchant forums drops significantly. But I am sure they will find something else to latch onto and flame people about.
The only place I have seen you post is the merchant forums. I have drawn my conclusions from that. And from what I have seen, you find it hard, if not impossible, to post in a civil manner on just about anything in these forums. You attack people, not ideas -- when it should be the other way around, and a tad bit less on the 'attacking' side and more on the 'discussion' side. I shouldn't have to read other boards.
Perhaps if you did (read other threads/boards), you'd understand why he's so utterly fed up with this situation. I'm not trying to put words into his mouth, but I can understand where he's coming from. Am I trying to excuse him? No, but when you get a thread titled "Why every Merchant poacher cry baby should be quiet", or "I think the proffesion of merchant is stupid. So I have a new Idea." why do you feel that person deserves any kind of rational discussion? All those threads deserve is a quick trip to the bowels of obscurity with no replies, yet here we are.
As far as understanding where he comes from...Yes, I can see it. But it still doesn't excuse his actions. When a dog is beat by its owner and ever after snaps at anyone that comes near it, we put that dog down because he then isn't fit to be part of society. Yes, the owner was not right in his actions, but is balkstar nothing more than an animal unable to control his own reactions? If so, he shouldn't be posting here.
I'm still trying to figure out where you're really coming from here. Are you a merchant? Former merchant? Message board crusader of justice? Just that bored? What is your interest in making sure nobody flames the "merchant poachers", Balkstar in particular?
It also doesn't matter what kind of response you feel another poster 'deserves'. They are posting ideas and opinions on a public forum -- they have that right. But you should have the maturity to ignore them if you find it insulting, because you lower yourself to their level if you respond back in kind, or go overboard like balkstar is known to do. And hey, if that is how you want to post, fine. But don't expect other people to respect you for it, or think you are super special cool.
What does it matter if I am a merchant? I love when people do this, because instead of actually arguing a true point, they attack something completely unrelated to the discussion. But just for the record, I started posting in these forums when I was working on merchant. I have since dropped those skills, but find the discussions here to be fun for the most part. I like a good argument, especially when both sides can leave the flames at home and bring logic and reasoning to the table. If a person can only argue his point by attacking another person, or sidetracking the issue with questions of what is his interest or what right does he have to make this or that comment, and other argument flaws, it just gets pointless to respond to them.
DragonScout wrote:
I never said all I read was the merchant forums. I said the only posts I have read of balkstars are from the merchant forums. I do not need to go see posts in other forums to see the larger picture. In THESE forums, which are specifically the forums I am commenting/concerned about, his behavior is terrible for the most part. It doesn't matter if he is a saint in another forum, that doesn't excuse his actions in these forums.
It's not your place to excuse his actions in these forums, what I'm trying to get across to you is the fact that Balk might be a nice guy (don't honestly know) who's just had it up to here with these posts. I try to ignore them for the most part, but you at least don't seem too trollish, hence my questions about your motives.
What does it matter if I am a merchant? I love when people do this, because instead of actually arguing a true point, they attack something completely unrelated to the discussion. But just for the record, I started posting in these forums when I was working on merchant. I have since dropped those skills, but find the discussions here to be fun for the most part. I like a good argument, especially when both sides can leave the flames at home and bring logic and reasoning to the table. If a person can only argue his point by attacking another person, or sidetracking the issue with questions of what is his interest or what right does he have to make this or that comment, and other argument flaws, it just gets pointless to respond to them.
My question (not an attack) was mainly to see what your motivation in all this is. If all you're here for is the "discussions" then why don't you attack the people posting these threads with the same zeal? They easily offer up fertile discussion fodder too, yet you seem biased in their favor.
I guess in the end I really don't care about your observations on the matter, I was just a little curious on the why's of you and P4's particular crusade.
I'm going to go back to ignoring these threads, as they are not constructive in the slightest.
Message Edited by mhal9000 on 06-16-2004 06:32 PM
And I would do the same to anyone that constantly flames other people. Not just balkstar. and not just people trying to get vendor poaching fixed. I was the same way with Dingoboi when he used to flame a lot.. I won't claim it is because of me, but his posts are lot less 'agry' than they were. You can actually have a discussion without him flaming someone. Which is how it should be.
As far as these issues.. I have never said that people should poach.. but if they ask questions.. I will answer them truthfully, and make suggestions. But I don't feel that just because someone asks about vendor poaching that they are inherently evil. They are just asking questions.. and how they are responded to can impact how they respond. I wouldn't be surprised if more people have vendor poached since balkstar and others have gone on their crusade, than ever before. If only because then people question what it is, and people in general tend to react negatively to flames and bashing.
DragonScout wrote:
I didn't say it was my place to excuse his actions -- nor would I want to. But I also don't have to stand idly by and let him or anyone flame people for asking questions. Please actually read what I have said and don't try to interpret it. My writings are not in the bible, and hence not open for whatever random interpretations people might want to come up with to suit their own 'moral' argument.
And I would do the same to anyone that constantly flames other people. Not just balkstar. and not just people trying to get vendor poaching fixed. I was the same way with Dingoboi when he used to flame a lot.. I won't claim it is because of me, but his posts are lot less 'agry' than they were. You can actually have a discussion without him flaming someone. Which is how it should be.
As far as these issues.. I have never said that people should poach.. but if they ask questions.. I will answer them truthfully, and make suggestions. But I don't feel that just because someone asks about vendor poaching that they are inherently evil. They are just asking questions.. and how they are responded to can impact how they respond. I wouldn't be surprised if more people have vendor poached since balkstar and others have gone on their crusade, than ever before. If only because then people question what it is, and people in general tend to react negatively to flames and bashing.
I'll make it simple for you, Dragon.
Hot button Topics:
1."Is it OK if I keep my vendor or skills that modify myvendorwhen I drop Merchant?" or some other iteration.
2." Vendor poaching is not important enough to fix without first focusing on adding fluff to the merchant profession."
3. "Merchant is such a useless profession"
Post on those lines, prepare for the flames. Post other interogatives or statements, and I usually will be very cordial in my responses.
You should note, Balki, that you're the only one on this board thatequates enhancing the merchant profession with "adding fluff". (At least, based on what I was hearing yesterday.)
Balkstar wrote:
2." Vendor poaching is not important enough to fix without first focusing on adding fluff to the merchant profession."