Merchant Archive
Thread: Removing full, maintenance paid abandoned vendors has to end!
Message Edited by DocSavag on 09-27-2004 09:25 PM
) then tell a CSR or a buddy, and have em log on and post an item or supend your timer, but dont leave for 4 weeks unnanounced, come back and gripe when your stuff is gone.....Message Edited by BaronRonin on 09-27-2004 11:01 PM
DingoBoi wrote:
DragonScout wrote:
You do have to have special skills to GET those things though. You have to have combat skills to GET loot.. you have to have scouting skills to GET meat. Those skills are what the profession gives you to actively USE. Just like the merchant profession gives you skills to PLACE vendors and to PLACE items up for sale.
A vendor isn't directly dependent on merchant at all. SETTING UP a vendor is. There is a difference.
And there is a problem with trying to compare strafe shot 2 and a vendor.. That problem lies in the fact that the vendor itself is not comparable to strafe shot. The vendor is more comparable to a T21. The skill strafe shot is comparable to the ability to PLACE a vendor or to PLACE an item up for sale. And when you drop merchant, you lose those abilities... Just like if you drop rifleman, you lose strafe shot. But that doesn't mean the vendor should just stop working or disappear. Just like when you drop rifleman, your rifles don't disappear. When vendors require resources to make, then you might have a point, but they don't so your weak 'point' just went up in smoke. /poof! buhbyes, but thanks for playing!
And it really isn't a dead issue since you can still vendor poach.
lol. my 'weak' point didn't go anywhere. It would be far easier for the DEVs to make vendors an item merchants could create and add a resource requirement to the generation of them than it has been for all the 'fixes' they have added the past few weeks. Hell.. they could have even limited items that way... by basing it off the quality of vendor built.
comparing static mining to the bazaar just doesn't even come close. So I am not the one stretching things or trying to justify my actions.
You CAN compare static mining to vendor poaching though. Both allow you to gain the benefits of a utility without investing the skill points in something you don't need very often -- though I would argue that on a daily or even weekly basis that surveying skills are more useful than 95% of the skills merchant gives you.
Which means that you should be just as vehemently opposed to static mining as you are to vendor poaching.. and yet you aren't.. jesus h criminy... harvester NEVER REQUIRED SKILLPOINTS TO USEAND THERE WAS NEVER ANY QUESTION IF IT WAS EXPLOITING OR NOT. THERE WAS NEVER A LAUNCHED MINER PROFESSION SO READ THESE REALLY BIG LETTERS AGAIN AND AGAIN TILL YOU GET THAT THROUGH YOUR HEADand even did it yourself. The only reason you yourself said you didn't continue it was because it wasn't as economically viable for yourself compared to lot traders. That makes you just as much an exploiter as any vendor poacher. USING HARVESTERS NEVER REQUIRED SKILLPOINTS.
Do you really think it was the intention of the DEVs originally that anyone could just throw down a harvester and completely remove the need for the surveying skill? (We aren't even referring to the mining profession that never made it into the game.) And if they want you to have skill points invested in surveying to find resources.. then by using static mining fields or by just plopping down a harvester any old place... it is just as wrong as vendor poaching. Oh, but wait.. that can't be right.. then you would be an evil exploiter. Because you are exploiting the game design that allows you to get away with not having skillpoints invested surveying skills.
DragonScout wrote:
Looks like you are arguing for vendor poaching now.
Do you really think it was the intention of the DEVs originally that anyone could just throw down a harvester and completely remove the need for the surveying skill? (We aren't even referring to the mining profession that never made it into the game.) And if they want you to have skill points invested in surveying to find resources.. then by using static mining fields or by just plopping down a harvester any old place... it is just as wrong as vendor poaching. Oh, but wait.. that can't be right.. then you would be an evil exploiter. Because you are exploiting the game design that allows you to get away with not having skillpoints invested surveying skills.
That argument doesn't meet the logic test. Finding resources is a skill. Putting down a harvester doesn't require any skills. Saying that you are circumventing the skill point requirement of survey by putting down a harvester is like saying a doctor who has no med crafting skills is subverting their skill tree by buying meds from someone else. He can't craft, but he can use..the same is true of survey vs harvesting.
The difference between that and Merchant Vendors is really that Vendors require a skill point expenditure to use. They were always supposed to require a skill point expenditure to use. Now they do..at least more than they did before.
Indene wrote:
Vendors are items. You can *ONLY* get them by being a merchant. Once you have them you *MUST* be a merchant to place them. Once placed and activated *NO OTHER SKILL* is needed for basic operation. However to place them on the global map, dress them pretty, make them speak does require specific merchant skill. Once dressed or trained they (because they are items) get to be. You can not change them if you drop merchant skill but they continue to exist just as other items in the game do. Houses for instance. A vendor is an item. strafe shot 2 is a skill. Changing the vendors planetary map entry or what the vendor says is a skill. Using one to sell or store things is(before pub 10) not a skill.
-Indene-
This is where you are wrong. Vendors are theTOOLs of the merchant profession.Sales are the PRODUCT of the merchant profession.
Just like the draft schematics (not manufacturing schematics) and the TOOLs of the crafting professions. And final product (including manufacturing schematics) are the PRODUCTS of the crafting profession. And manufacturing schematics are just a "time delayed" final product.
Taking this one step further. Weapons and weapons certs are the TOOLs of the combat class. Whereas dead MOBs and players is the PRODUCT of the combat classes.
Going even further, Music and Dance are the TOOLs of the entertainer profession. Cured BF and Entertainer buffs are the PRODUCT of the entertainer professions.
In each case, you will note that using the TOOLs requires an investment in skillpoints. Merchant wassuffering from a bug in the system that allowedpeople to use the TOOLs without a corresponding investment inskill points. This has now been fixed. Any further argument is pointless.
Message Edited by jbeck on 09-28-2004 09:55 AM
i cancelled my account.
AlphaMaldorian wrote:
At the risk of sounding like I'm defending SOE (trust me I am NOT), they have changed the focus of the game to the "long-term" power gamer (examples: Jedi, persons with no lives other than SWG, multiple account holders, etc.). Since they stated that things may change from the very start, in they're eyes there's no reason for us (casual gamers, people who enjoy other activities besides being logged in 24/7, etc.) to complain.
If you don't like the changes that SOE forces upon you, quit. Management's recent policy addition banning mass gatherings (i.e. in game protests) only re-enforces the opinion that they could care less what the customers desire.
Personally my Account(s) were switched to monthly renewal back when the Combat Rebalance Delay was announced months ago. I stess tested World of Warcraft and have decided that once it goes live, my SWG accounts will be suspended (I might pay once every six months just to prevent permanent deletion just in case SWG takes a turn for the better) and cancelled.
DocSavag wrote:
Come on my friends. Lets not attack each other over this issue. I don't really think any of us supports the idea of vendors paid up in maintenance with merchandise on them being deleted by the system.
I certainly don't support this system and I"ve already told the devs that its a huge problem. I am going to follow that up this week with another post about it and I'll keep pushing against it.
The purpose of this system is pretty obvious its to prevent you from putting up all your items in storage for 9999999 and then letting it sit around only visiting once a month to keep them back on the vendor. I understand that motiviation by the devs but this system just punishes too many legitimate merchants who might have a slow period.
if the game offered adequate storage, there would be no problem. but they refuse to invest adequately to support the game, and thus most of the problems you see occur. the database is overloaded! what cheap piece-of-crap setup do they have, anyway? sony is bilking you for your money, with no intention of providing a first rate product.
p4Samwise wrote:
AlphaMaldorian wrote:
If you don't like the changes that SOE forces upon you, quit. Management's recent policy addition banning mass gatherings (i.e. in game protests) only re-enforces the opinion that they could care less what the customers desire.
Agreed. I suspected when the devs started saying that they'd actually implement changes for the merchant profession that they'd be giving us the shaft in order to cut down database bloat, and dressing it as "look, we're addressing your #1 correspondent issue, give us your money!"
I quit the game because I could smell it coming a mile off. Sure enough, I had correctly identified what SOE was cooking.
Take it from me, quitting SWG will only improve your quality of life. There are scores of games with teams behind them that actually care about keeping their customers happy and giving them their money's worth. Why give your money to the one that's intent on shafting you and charging you a premium rate for the privilege?
100% agree
lisasdarren wrote:
Well I have never had a problem with customer service being rude, or mean or laughing in my face, i have always found they will help where they can.. however telling you that there is nothing they will do according to policy when you lose items is not a big deal to me, and seems a legitimate policy to stop scammers. I don't consider this a breach of trust, it is a corporate policy to prevent potential issues from within a game.
If a word processor crashes part way through writing a long document would youexpect the manufacturer to re-do your document?
These are not real tangible valuable goods, they are part of a game and thus losing them is something to shrug off and move on from, not complain about and get upset over. You get bugs in computer software, you always have and probably always will and the more complex the software the more the bugs and the harder they are to find.
As to broken promises, i have always read everything the devs have said they will do as subject to change, in fact they generally put that it is nothing is sure until it is done. I see no broken promises, just changed schedules and different ideas / aims.
It went something like this:
Devs: We are going to severely limit your vendor space. (150 items per)
Merchants: Thats not fair..half the vendors out there are being run without skill points..fix that first.
Devs: Ok..we'll address that and make the item limit scale so being a merchant counts for something.
[Months Pass]
Devs: We are limiting the vendors to 110 items and removing the ability for you to sell items without the skills to do so.
Merchants: 110? Thats crazy that is worse than the first time and you promised to do better.
Devs: Ok.. more then?
Merchants: Lots more.. unlimited
Devs: 4k, 12 Vendors, but they get deleted if you don't use them for 14 days.
Merchants: 14 days? Thats crazy you can't even take a vacation..
Devs: Ok 100 days which is more than they can really exist anyway since they will vanish on their own in 74 days.