Merchant Archive
Thread: Removing full, maintenance paid abandoned vendors has to end!
GraySeven
Sun Sep 26, 2004 7:56 am
#66
My set-up is quite simple; I have a house on the outskirts of Tergill with six vendors in it. I have vendors for Armor, Droids, Organic Resources, General Equipment, Loot, and a Custom Orders Vendor...
I get a lot of traffic, mostly my Organic Resource Vendor and Droids, but a lot of it is simply browsing. I understand browsing, I do it all the time trying to uncover the occassional good deal or item I just "have to have".
A lot of the changes to Merchant have been done to prevent Vendors from being used to store items, or to remove Vendors that have been "illegal" due to dropped skills. Those changes have made the Merchant profession a bit more useful.
But this one thing is a redundancy that pretty much negates changes that have been made before it...
Why give me the ability to post an item for 30 days, then give me 30 days in the stockroom, then take this all away with the addition of a "unused vendor nerf" that will delete my vendor in 30 days?
If the Dev's would just realize the real problem and fix that, we wouldn't have to put up with nerfs such as this. If people are using Vendors for storage, then they must have a reason for using it for storage, right?
My case is a good example. I have 5 small and 1 medium house plus 4 factories shared amongst 3 characters. The two "gun-bunnies" have no need for their lots, so I use them. The only reason is for storage...
Why do I need that much storage? Well, as a Master Artisan, Master DE, Master Armorsmith, I need a lot of components. A good number of these have to be "identical from factory crates" and I make crate runs of other components so that I can put together any custom droid order in short time. Also, each Advanced profession requires 25 named, specificresources in addition to other unnamed resources. Luckily for me, a couple of these overlap between my advanced professions. If I run across a particularly good resource spawn, I have to collect as much of it as possible because it may be a year or more before I see it again...this I know from experience.
By design, the game's developers have built a crafting system that requires hoarding of materials. I didn't do it, they did, and then they push nerf after nerf designed to make me unable to craft under their system. Fix the underlying problem instead of ignoring it and nerfing profession after profession.
This "abandoned" vendor issue is just one more shadow cast by the "reduction in database storage" gremlins...
Wendi
Sun Sep 26, 2004 12:44 pm
#67
This change has got me extremely pissed off. First I have been a casual gamer as of late because of school and work. I logged in today to post about 20 million units of resources for sale to my auction winners a week or 2 ago. I logged in to find my vendor gone, deleted, and no email. I was using my vendor for storage but come on. Why the heck would I become a master merchant? I wasn't trying to abuse the class, this is why I became a master merchant. At one point, I was the #1 architect on my server.... to this day 1 out of 3 hvy miners on naritus were made by Lochness. I made close to 700 million credits in sales from my craft. I thought up the idea of using vendors for storage because it was necessary. I litterally kept 2 factories running 24/7 as I consumed on average 6 million units in resources a week and actually had to # my schematics for ease. Storing them into houses kept me from becoming the best as it was such a chore to figure anything out. In my hey day, I had typically almost 2000 items in backlog (enough to keep me good for about 2 weeks of my factories being shutdown). I guess looking forward is a crime in SWG. Anyways its not matter now, I was leaving my field anyways and now I will be leaving the game. CSR said its my fault for not reading the knowledgebase to know that I wasn't allowed to do that; which btw I knew it was kinda advantage but for god's sake this is a game and it's alreading SWG Beta 2.0, what the hell the combat balance as been on the plate for over 1 year... the thing which is required to fix combat. Do they think you are supposed to sit around, pay them 15 dollars a month... and wait for them to implement solutions. They have a hard enough time getting their you know what out of the others you know where. I used to always be the nice guy... but when you cost me 38 million credits (and easily 100 hours of my personal time playing the game) and basically treat my like I'm stupid; I have some major problems with that.
DragonScout
Sun Sep 26, 2004 2:22 pm
#68
You aren't supposed to keep the benefits that a profession brings? That is kinda funny. Because I would consider all the meat you harvest when you are a scout a benefit... So if you drop scout.. should it all poof? What about all the loot you get when you hunt using rifles? If you drop rifleman, it should all poof too then, right?
The skills that merchant give you are tied up in the PLACEMENT and SET UP of vendors... not the actual keeping of them. You can argue that that is a design flaw, one that they should fix -- and I would even agree.. But you can't argue that it is an exploit because it isn't. it is the way the system is set up.. it is the way the profession is designed. And by using it to their advantage.. it is no more wrong than using the best armor or weapon or whatever.
Also.. You mentioned yourself that you used static mining fields.. but didn't do it because it wasn't as cost effective for you as it was for lot traders. That is actually kinda funny. Because it makes you an exploiter by your own terms. Static mining fields completely remove the need for the surveying tree, and if you do that you are exploiting -- in your terms -- just as much as vendor poaching is. Kinda hypocritical isn't it?
The skills that merchant give you are tied up in the PLACEMENT and SET UP of vendors... not the actual keeping of them. You can argue that that is a design flaw, one that they should fix -- and I would even agree.. But you can't argue that it is an exploit because it isn't. it is the way the system is set up.. it is the way the profession is designed. And by using it to their advantage.. it is no more wrong than using the best armor or weapon or whatever.
Also.. You mentioned yourself that you used static mining fields.. but didn't do it because it wasn't as cost effective for you as it was for lot traders. That is actually kinda funny. Because it makes you an exploiter by your own terms. Static mining fields completely remove the need for the surveying tree, and if you do that you are exploiting -- in your terms -- just as much as vendor poaching is. Kinda hypocritical isn't it?
GraySeven
Sun Sep 26, 2004 10:11 pm
#69
Sorry DragonScout, but that isn't true. Meat and other organics are items. You don't need a special skill to have them, just as I don't need to be a Jedi to loot a Crystal.
Vendors are directly dependant on skills. If you don't have the skill, you can't get a vendor. Once you have the skill, you can have the vendor. If you drop the skill, you loose the vendor, just as a Master Rifleman would lose Strafe Shot 2 if he dropped the Master box. He's no longer a Master, hence he can't use the Special.
The Vendor issue is past, and no amount of arguing is going to change things. If you don't have the pre-req skill, you can't have what that skill allows. The vendor skill isn't about placing them, its about having them.
DragonScout
Sun Sep 26, 2004 10:31 pm
#70
You do have to have special skills to GET those things though. You have to have combat skills to GET loot.. you have to have scouting skills to GET meat. Those skills are what the profession gives you to actively USE. Just like the merchant profession gives you skills to PLACE vendors and to PLACE items up for sale.
A vendor isn't directly dependent on merchant at all. SETTING UP a vendor is. There is a difference.
And there is a problem with trying to compare strafe shot 2 and a vendor.. That problem lies in the fact that the vendor itself is not comparable to strafe shot. The vendor is more comparable to a T21. The skill strafe shot is comparable to the ability to PLACE a vendor or to PLACE an item up for sale. And when you drop merchant, you lose those abilities... Just like if you drop rifleman, you lose strafe shot. But that doesn't mean the vendor should just stop working or disappear. Just like when you drop rifleman, your rifles don't disappear.
And it really isn't a dead issue since you can still vendor poach.
A vendor isn't directly dependent on merchant at all. SETTING UP a vendor is. There is a difference.
And there is a problem with trying to compare strafe shot 2 and a vendor.. That problem lies in the fact that the vendor itself is not comparable to strafe shot. The vendor is more comparable to a T21. The skill strafe shot is comparable to the ability to PLACE a vendor or to PLACE an item up for sale. And when you drop merchant, you lose those abilities... Just like if you drop rifleman, you lose strafe shot. But that doesn't mean the vendor should just stop working or disappear. Just like when you drop rifleman, your rifles don't disappear.
And it really isn't a dead issue since you can still vendor poach.
DingoBoi
Mon Sep 27, 2004 4:16 am
#71
DragonScout wrote:
You aren't supposed to keep the benefits that a profession brings? That is kinda funny. Because I would consider all the meat you harvest when you are a scout a benefit... So if you drop scout.. should it all poof? What about all the loot you get when you hunt using rifles? If you drop rifleman, it should all poof too then, right? /boggle at your warped view.. what planet are you from?
The skills that merchant give you are tied up in the PLACEMENT and SET UP of vendors... not the actual keeping of them. You can argue that that is a design flaw, one that they should fix -- and I would even agree.. But you can't argue that it is an exploit because it isn't. it is the way the system is set up.. it is the way the profession is designed. And by using it to their advantage.. it is no more wrong than using the best armor or weapon or whatever.
Also.. You mentioned yourself that you used static mining fields.. but didn't do it because it wasn't as cost effective for you as it was for lot traders. That is actually kinda funny. Because it makes you an exploiter by your own terms. Static mining fields completely remove the need for the surveying tree, and if you do that you are exploiting -- in your terms -- just as much as vendor poaching is. Kinda hypocritical isn't it? um.. no, it's not... it is exactly equivalent to using the bazaar versus a vendor... both can sell, but vendors just make it so much better. I could mine, but if I moved them, I'd mine much better stuff. You are really stretching here... don't have any real or good arguements do you?
DingoBoi
Mon Sep 27, 2004 4:22 am
#72
DragonScout wrote:
You do have to have special skills to GET those things though. You have to have combat skills to GET loot.. you have to have scouting skills to GET meat. Those skills are what the profession gives you to actively USE. Just like the merchant profession gives you skills to PLACE vendors and to PLACE items up for sale.
A vendor isn't directly dependent on merchant at all. SETTING UP a vendor is. There is a difference.
And there is a problem with trying to compare strafe shot 2 and a vendor.. That problem lies in the fact that the vendor itself is not comparable to strafe shot. The vendor is more comparable to a T21. The skill strafe shot is comparable to the ability to PLACE a vendor or to PLACE an item up for sale. And when you drop merchant, you lose those abilities... Just like if you drop rifleman, you lose strafe shot. But that doesn't mean the vendor should just stop working or disappear. Just like when you drop rifleman, your rifles don't disappear. When vendors require resources to make, then you might have a point, but they don't so your weak 'point' just went up in smoke. /poof! buhbyes, but thanks for playing!
And it really isn't a dead issue since you can still vendor poach.
DocSavag
Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:06 am
#73
Glad to see Dingo survived another hurricane down there..I was afraid the forum would get boring.
LadyGrey
Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:09 am
#74
DINGO IS ALIVE!!! And his computer survived, and he has electricity!!!
However, his sense of humor (or not) seems to have pulled through unscathed. Oh well.
DingoBoi
Mon Sep 27, 2004 7:37 am
#75
Good to be back.. I'm actually at work where we have generators. My home is fine but no power there so as soon as the evil curfew was lifted.. i came to work to trol... er... post on the merchant forums... 
Viva la merchant!
Cafa
Mon Sep 27, 2004 9:01 am
#76
lisasdarren wrote:
Cafa wrote:
Your answer continues to be poor in the fact that ultimately you blame whether I am disturbed or irritated by sub-par service on me/players. If something "gets" to you then you DO something about it to the best of your ability to fix it. You do not quit.
Fivo Asia
I am not blaming you that you find a sub par service disturbing and irritating.The bugs in the code could hardly be called a sub-par service, more like an expected side effect, however undesirable, of complex software programs.
If you discover bugs then report them, many bugs have been fixed, some you probably never even knew about, more will be fixed.
If you want to complain that the customer service team is less customer focused than it should be, untrained, rude or any other of these things and it is true (I suspect it is in some cases even though i have never come accross it) then fine, I understand fully and would do the same if bad CS happened to me.
To me however you seem to be complaining about the loss of your vendor through a bug and the fact that they havn't replaced it, not about the fact that the CSRs you have spoken to are rude and incompetent.
Which is the EXACT reason that you come to these conversations with no ammunition.
My complaint is PRIMARILY that the CSRs are incompetent.
Only a very centrist psyche would not be ableto see that. Your lack of advocacy towards merchantissues that do not affect youand general thrust that we should all "shutup" is more annoying than the CSRs, even. Either you are completely ignorant of the complexities of this game on a macro-economic scale or you're a troll. I tend to judge that you aren't a troll from reading the crux of your posts over their history.
You just don't get it. (Historically) Reporting bugs does nothing. (Historically) Reporting problems to CSRs does little. The only public forum that stands a chance of refocusing attention to bugs is this BBS. If you don't believe that then why the hell are you here?
Fivo Asia
Zanholo
Mon Sep 27, 2004 9:16 am
#77
This is Sony's attempt to get the last of its player base to say "f it" and quit...
I am so mad I could spit lightning bolts and my loss was NOWHERE NEAR some people's losses. Yet all we get is "system operating as intended" bs...
IF THIS IS HOW YOUR SYSTEM IS MEANT TO OPERATE, I HOPE YOU ENUOY ITS OPERATION WITH THE TWO PEOPLE LEFT PAYING FOR IT SOON...
Worst customer relations I have ever seen.
DragonScout
Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:53 am
#78
DingoBoi wrote:
DragonScout wrote:
You aren't supposed to keep the benefits that a profession brings? That is kinda funny. Because I would consider all the meat you harvest when you are a scout a benefit... So if you drop scout.. should it all poof? What about all the loot you get when you hunt using rifles? If you drop rifleman, it should all poof too then, right? /boggle at your warped view.. what planet are you from?
The skills that merchant give you are tied up in the PLACEMENT and SET UP of vendors... not the actual keeping of them. You can argue that that is a design flaw, one that they should fix -- and I would even agree.. But you can't argue that it is an exploit because it isn't. it is the way the system is set up.. it is the way the profession is designed. And by using it to their advantage.. it is no more wrong than using the best armor or weapon or whatever.
Also.. You mentioned yourself that you used static mining fields.. but didn't do it because it wasn't as cost effective for you as it was for lot traders. That is actually kinda funny. Because it makes you an exploiter by your own terms. Static mining fields completely remove the need for the surveying tree, and if you do that you are exploiting -- in your terms -- just as much as vendor poaching is. Kinda hypocritical isn't it? um.. no, it's not... it is exactly equivalent to using the bazaar versus a vendor... both can sell, but vendors just make it so much better. I could mine, but if I moved them, I'd mine much better stuff. You are really stretching here... don't have any real or good arguements do you?
comparing static mining to the bazaar just doesn't even come close. So I am not the one stretching things or trying to justify my actions.
You CAN compare static mining to vendor poaching though. Both allow you to gain the benefits of a utility without investing the skill points in something you don't need very often -- though I would argue that on a daily or even weekly basis that surveying skills are more useful than 95% of the skills merchant gives you.
Which means that you should be just as vehemently opposed to static mining as you are to vendor poaching.. and yet you aren't.. and even did it yourself. The only reason you yourself said you didn't continue it was because it wasn't as economically viable for yourself compared to lot traders. That makes you just as much an exploiter as any vendor poacher.