Merchant Archive
Thread: Focus Thread: Vendor Search System on TC
Meplorium wrote:
riotcontrol wrote:
Meplorium wrote:Any system can have griefers, so that concern, while valid, is going to be there no matter what, and will rarely happen. Removing vendors with items still needing to be picked up from them is already an issue. This will increase the issue, but it is the buyers responsibility to pick up their goods in a timely matter, not the merchant.
Wouldn't pretty much all possible 'griefing' issues be resolved simply by removing the 'Purchase' option and just leaving "Get Waypoint' so you have to use the actual vendor to purchase the item, not just go there and pick it up?
Probably, but I don't see this happening all to often. I see the other form of unintential griefing happening much more where you find the item you want to buy, get the way point then go all the way there only to see some other guy walk out the door right before you. You go in, no item. I would call that unintential griefing, you go all that way and still don't get want you want although no attack was directed at you.
The problem where some kid gets a vendor and sellssomething for 50k and then bans people from their shop so they can't pick it up is a CSR problem. Those people needa ban. If it really does become a strain on the CSR system they will change it in a hurry. I am just not sure preventing one form of griefing and allowing another is an even trade when there is clearly something that can be done to the intential griefers.
So, are you fundamentally stating that participation in the Global Search invalidates your character's property/lot rights in the game? If someone purchases from me and their guild is banned am I suddenly the villain? If I clearly set the ban in effect in response to GCW issues?
So now you are saying that crafters have zero rights to play the GCW?
Fivo Asia
Ani_cul wrote:Exactly what I thought and think as well.I had mentioned this first time round and hols to it being a great idea now.
Since people will basically be there for purchase, they will also pickup {so the deleted vendor before retreiving item would be rare}and above all the folks who are banned stay banned.
Yup, pretty much everyone did in the In Development thread, as far as I can recall.
There's been a lot of great suggestions there, and they shouldn't have implemented the system like that after so much feedback. Ok, they didn't include instant delivery, but more or less everything else is still there. Now, if the intended idea behind this was indeed for everyone just to be able to make sure that the vendor they're going to has items they want to buy in stock, thus eliminating the time-sink of searching through countless empty and half-empty vendors, then the system will work just fine even without the prices, the custom names, and the purchase option. (If we ignore that the sorting system really needs some work, but that's an issue on all vendors, the bazaar etc. and not to mention that it needs to have some ties to the Merchant skill trees.)
If, on the other hand, the idea was not to eliminate this time-sink but to eliminate the need for the Merchant profession, the need for having actual shops where location, decoration and how well it's stocked count, eliminate small-time crafters and just cater to the people who do absolutely nothing but kill Nightsisters 8 hours per day, then I can see all of the current features as 'needed'...
I'm very afraid that this is the portion of the playerbase they are trying to please with most of the recent changes so they are not really going to listen to reasonable suggestions... Out of curiosity, Elyssa, Caylin and the other Glowies/Correspondents, are these issues being acknowledged in the Correspondent forums at all? I mean, do they even respond to direct questions (I'm assuming you all do ask questions about this stuff
) or are you just being ignored like most of questions and concerns in the In Development/In Concept/etc. threads are?EDIT: My apologies if this goes too much into the 'ranting' territory
, but there's no real way to test the overall impact on the economy and all the changes that could happen to our gaming experience in just a few days on TC. Message Edited by riotcontrol on 03-16-2005 02:01 AM
I want to say thanks btw the way guys and gals.
I am sure you get the brunt of most the uproar directed to DEVs and Patches and Ideas placed firmly on your heads.
Message Edited by Ani_cul on 03-15-2005 07:01 PM
Yes, sure, someone could buy something and then find himself banned. I seriously doubt any crafter would do that on purpose, it won't do him any good, since that guy won't ever come back and buy more, and the item is lost, the merchant can't get it back.
It can however happen that someone bought something from a guy he was banned before. Well thats bad luck
BUT noone forced him to buy over the bazaar without checking first if he was banned in the shop.
So those people who rather see the buy option gone with the remark that it prevents grieving: Well don't buy over the bazaar, get the waypoint, got here and buy there.
And yes, I am a master merchant.
Akaara wrote:
This will probably hurt the little mom and pop stores who cannot compete price wise from the huge PA's who can sell things at rock bottom prices.
I know I'll be hit. We've got guys on Eclipse with tons of harvs through multiple lot trades; one guy had something like 200 static harvs in one spot last I looked. Some of them have tons of self-powered kits, too, again through trades or PA donations or just outright bought. I can't afford that, I don't have that many lots at my disposal. So maybe *they* can afford to sell resources for 1-2 cpu because it only cost them .5 or .7 to mine, plus they ahve the bulk for profit, butI can't do that.
The fact that you cannot sort by prices does help, it's a reasonable enough compromise, but I'm less happy about it today than I was yesterday.
The things I *really* do not like are remote purchase and that you only need Business III to register. They go against the spirit of the Merchant profession and all the work people have put into building up clienteles, stocks, shops, malls, downtowns, and just... Nullifies it. It trivializes all the work we've put into it. In fact, it gives someone with Business III more of an advantage in advertising than we have EVER had as Master Merchants.
Remote purchase needs to go. I'd rather see prices gone, too, but I doubt that will happen--at least I can more or less live with having them so long as they're non-sortable.
Come on, it doesn't make sense that its harder to just get your vendor location on the map, than it is to list all items on the bazaar.
Just doesn't make sense, and is a slap in the face of merchants.
But the rest of the system is ok, i think, but well thats my personal opinion, others might have a different one (thats why its called opinion
)
Meplorium wrote:
[snip]
If someone buys a product from you, you recieve money for that product and then you ban them from your shop in order to hinder their ability to aquire Their Property, then yes you are the villain. I don't care what the reasoning is, be it 'I hate their guild' or faction ect. You took their money and then banned them.
If they bought a product from you in a shop that they were already banned from, then it is their own fault for not paying attention. This technically should not be allowed. If you are banned from a shop, then the listing shouldn't appear to you.
If you are so into the GCW that you would ban based purely on faction, then maybe you shouldn't use a galaxy wide search that allows everyone to view your inventory and buy your products. I am sure the list of reb/imp is longer than your ban list. This is optional after all and this is an excellent example of a situation where you wouldn't want to be listed. It is your job as a merchant now to reach out to your customers in some other fashion.
Which points out a flaw in the system.
Now, because I want to be a Merchant, participate in the GCW and get on the Galaxy-wide search I have to sacrifice one of those playstyles immediately.
Not me, of course, I'll never use the "galaxy-wide removal of Merchant skill points" nerf (yes, I said it) because not a single thing is being done to help the Merchant community by this change. Not one.
But, again, you have pointed out that at least you want to dictate someone's ability to play a Merchant in the game and not prevent the other side (whatever that may be) from buying a Merchant's goods, even if the Merchant's only control is a loss of this supposed gain. Where the heck is the fairness in that? Merchants cannot be faction members or supporters now?
The game is Star Wars: An Empire Divided. Not Carebear Land.
Fivo Asia
P.S. Please, please do not take this as a flame. It is not intended as such. It is conjecture for real CS problems that are going to arise quickly, IMO.
Message Edited by Cafa on 03-15-2005 06:37 PM
Cafa wrote:
Meplorium wrote:
[snip]
If someone buys a product from you, you recieve money for that product and then you ban them from your shop in order to hinder their ability to aquire Their Property, then yes you are the villain. I don't care what the reasoning is, be it 'I hate their guild' or faction ect. You took their money and then banned them.
If they bought a product from you in a shop that they were already banned from, then it is their own fault for not paying attention. This technically should not be allowed. If you are banned from a shop, then the listing shouldn't appear to you.
If you are so into the GCW that you would ban based purely on faction, then maybe you shouldn't use a galaxy wide search that allows everyone to view your inventory and buy your products. I am sure the list of reb/imp is longer than your ban list. This is optional after all and this is an excellent example of a situation where you wouldn't want to be listed. It is your job as a merchant now to reach out to your customers in some other fashion.
Which points out a flaw in the system.
Now, because I want to be a Merchant, participate in the GCW and get on the Galaxy-wide search I have to sacrifice one of those playstyles immediately.
Not me, of course, I'll never use the "galaxy-wide removal of Merchant skill points" nerf (yes, I said it) because not a single thing is being done to help the Merchant community by this change. Not one.
But, again, you have pointed out that at least you want to dictate someone's ability to play a Merchant in the game and not prevent the other side (whatever that may be) from buying a Merchant's goods, even if the Merchant's only control is a loss of this supposed gain. Where the heck is the fairness in that? Merchants cannot be faction members or supporters now?
The game is Star Wars: An Empire Divided. Not Carebear Land.
Fivo Asia
P.S. Please, please do not take this as a flame. It is not intended as such. It is conjecture for real CS problems that are going to arise quickly, IMO.
Message Edited by Cafa on 03-15-2005 06:37 PM
If you wish to cater to everyone then have your vendor on the galaxy search and don't ban people from your shop. If you wish to only serve a sub-population then do so. No one is tell you that you must use this new system or allow everyone access to your shop. You have the tools and the choice. However as with anything in life if we choose to do one thing, it will affect something else.
How you reach the sub population that you wish to serve will be a challenge. This is the RPers that care as deeply about the GCW as you do. That is reason enough for them to shop at your place over some Cnet mall that servers any old bothan that walks in. I just don't see any problem here.