Merchant Archive
Thread: How can holding venders after you give merchant up be called an exploit...
Super_nice_jedi wrote:
Actually that is a pretty good point.
If you're not a merchant, you can't
- Remove vendors and rename them
- Can't give them new clothes
- Can't move them, if moving shop from one location to another,eg Tatooine to Naboo, without reacquiring Merchant, or if wanting to replace them in a large house, instead of being in a small/medium house
- Don't benefit from structure maintenance discounts
- Don't benefit from vendor/bazaar discounts
- Can't alter the ad barking, or temporarily remove it if it gets annoying
See a load of restrictions if not a merchant, and it takes ages to get the merchant xp, time is what gets you the xp, and if your business grows, which is the plan, when you want to move, you're screwed. With other professions, like TKA, Medic, Doctor, Combat Medic etc these can all be mastered in a day or two, but with Merchant it takes months.
I agree it is an explot and always has been, but it is TOO LATE to change it now, when everyones buinesses relies on it. The explot should have been fixed from the second the first person spotted it, welll, the next hotfix anyway, not over 1 year later when everybody have built up their business around this explot, and now if it gets fixed everybodies buinessess will come crashing down, and the whole SWG experience will be dead. Crafters/Merchants will now not be able to keep up with the demand, and customers will find trying to buy items rarer than lootingcrystals from kreetles, resulting in doing combat more difficult, especially after devs boosted the difficulty rating due to buffs etc
I agree 100% with this post, the only thing that going to happen with this so called "fix" will be prices will be driven up (again) and acquiring good quality products will be next to impossible.
As if the economy is messed up enough. I see dark days ahead for SWG if they go through with this vendor nerf...
*throws hands in air* There we go again. "Having to keep them when they are of very little value" you say is pointless. Yet you're obviously gaining benefit out of them. What you're really saying is - I've been able to get away with no SP expenditure to get all the benefits of vendors and now this is going to take away my cake. The benefits I get from this tree are pointless if I can't have them for free, that's what you're saying.
Pointless is using a torch in broad daylight.
Pointless is trying to dry yourself off with a towel - when you're still standing in the shower.
Pointless is the Vendors Tree if you could get all the benefits without keeping the tree.
Pointless is what it was. Making vendor retention tied to the Vendors Tree gives it a POINT.
As for krayt weapons, then either find a Merchant you trust, or do the sale manually. Besides, any Merchant that pulls a stunt like that would have his/her reputation destroyed and find themselves out of suppliers.
Ok, I'll reword it, as I do see your argument. It is a pain/annoyance to have to keep this skill tree inorder to keep venders operational. Since by having to keep it, it will criple a template, be it a smuggler crafter (AS/WS), or myself, a PvE / PvPer. My living comes from looting and selling krayt goods. Having to give up CM (which would make me useless really in pvp, since rifles stacked with nothing sucks, lol), or give up rifles, which is how I get permission on npcs and stay in business. So I'm going to have to give up CM (which was also very affective against krayt ancients/DJK/DJM's, as well as very fun for PvE/PvP) inorder to keep a cash income.
Sure, it's a pain/annoyance to keep them operational after all this time that we've been able to operate the vendors with no skill point expenditure, but if it was working as intended in the first place, we'd not be in a position to see it this way.
Personally I don't see anything wrong with a bit of template changing. Templates are changing all the time with this change or that fix, or the game evolves (e.g. Riflemen were such outcasts in the beginning, but with the evolution of doctor buffs, well crafted T-21s and high end armour, suddenly mind attacks became dangerous and then Riflemen became prolific - when nothing in the underlying game mechanic actually changed - just the environment - saving the 2.5x multiplier but that doesn't detract from the damage output and type). Or a more recent change, the lowering of pre-requisites for BH.
Personally I fail to see how your income will be affected, if you simply do manual sales on the forum for such high end goods. As a weaponsmith I have a few good relationships with combat types who bring me looted components, and I split sales with them of goods made from this allowing them to make some money off their loot and allowing me to offer a broader range of upgrades on my vendor.
You could also run missions, which is a real money spinner. Combat Profession friends of mine all talk about making a million credits, and then some, in a single buff run.
The point is, you will adapt and it won't be at the expense of another profession's right to existence. Bottom line, you'll never win over anyone with arguments about how YOUR template will be affected. With all due respect (and I mean that, this has been a civil debate and I'm rather surprised and pleased) that approach is too self centric and offers no real broad justifications. My best buddy on my server is a straight combat class, with no vendors to speak of and he does just fine. I can't see how loss of free vendors for you will truly impede you - whereas this has been a breaking issue for Merchants since the year dot.
I will have to dropMaster Riflemanto properly maintain my weaponsmith business - especially with these proposed caps, and I want to be able to offer a broad range of weapons, but that's a choice I have to make. I won't be bemoaning not being able to do everything at once. It's a choice.
That being said, the proposed caps are too darn low. I bet they're lowballing us.
Kershakk wrote:
*throws hands in air* There we go again. "Having to keep them when they are of very little value" you say is pointless. Yet you're obviously gaining benefit out of them. What you're really saying is - I've been able to get away with no SP expenditure to get all the benefits of vendors and now this is going to take away my cake. The benefits I get from this tree are pointless if I can't have them for free, that's what you're saying.
Pointless is using a torch in broad daylight.
Pointless is trying to dry yourself off with a towel - when you're still standing in the shower.
Pointless is the Vendors Tree if you could get all the benefits without keeping the tree.
Pointless is what it was. Making vendor retention tied to the Vendors Tree gives it a POINT.
As for krayt weapons, then either find a Merchant you trust, or do the sale manually. Besides, any Merchant that pulls a stunt like that would have his/her reputation destroyed and find themselves out of suppliers.
Ok, I'll reword it, as I do see your argument. It is a pain/annoyance to have to keep this skill tree inorder to keep venders operational. Since by having to keep it, it will criple a template, be it a smuggler crafter (AS/WS), or myself, a PvE / PvPer. My living comes from looting and selling krayt goods. Having to give up CM (which would make me useless really in pvp, since rifles stacked with nothing sucks, lol), or give up rifles, which is how I get permission on npcs and stay in business. So I'm going to have to give up CM (which was also very affective against krayt ancients/DJK/DJM's, as well as very fun for PvE/PvP) inorder to keep a cash income.
Sure, it's a pain/annoyance to keep them operational after all this time that we've been able to operate the vendors with no skill point expenditure, but if it was working as intended in the first place, we'd not be in a position to see it this way.
Personally I don't see anything wrong with a bit of template changing. Templates are changing all the time with this change or that fix, or the game evolves (e.g. Riflemen were such outcasts in the beginning, but with the evolution of doctor buffs, well crafted T-21s and high end armour, suddenly mind attacks became dangerous and then Riflemen became prolific - when nothing in the underlying game mechanic actually changed - just the environment - saving the 2.5x multiplier but that doesn't detract from the damage output and type). Or a more recent change, the lowering of pre-requisites for BH.
Personally I fail to see how your income will be affected, if you simply do manual sales on the forum for such high end goods. As a weaponsmith I have a few good relationships with combat types who bring me looted components, and I split sales with them of goods made from this allowing them to make some money off their loot and allowing me to offer a broader range of upgrades on my vendor.
You could also run missions, which is a real money spinner. Combat Profession friends of mine all talk about making a million credits, and then some, in a single buff run.
The point is, you will adapt and it won't be at the expense of another profession's right to existence. Bottom line, you'll never win over anyone with arguments about how YOUR template will be affected. With all due respect (and I mean that, this has been a civil debate and I'm rather surprised and pleased) that approach is too self centric and offers no real broad justifications. My best buddy on my server is a straight combat class, with no vendors to speak of and he does just fine. I can't see how loss of free vendors for you will truly impede you - whereas this has been a breaking issue for Merchants since the year dot.
I will have to dropMaster Riflemanto properly maintain my weaponsmith business - especially with these proposed caps, and I want to be able to offer a broad range of weapons, but that's a choice I have to make. I won't be bemoaning not being able to do everything at once. It's a choice.
That being said, the proposed caps are too darn low. I bet they're lowballing us.
I hope so
zukem wrote:
Barris,
Actually there is still a cost to the cantina analogy that you gave. That person had to surrender 5 lots for it. So, even though they don't have the skill, they do have a cost still associated with it.
With this merchant exploit, there is no cost. If you put the vendors up, and surrender the skills, there is no penalty for doing so. As opposed to those keeping the merchant skills, there cost is those skill points that they had to surrender.
Yastar wrote:
Once you give up pistoleer...as soon as you equip the DX2 novice pistoleer weapon it tells you you don't have the skills to use this weapon properly...well then why should an non merchant be allowed to vend then? If what it seems some folks are thinking, then the T21 should be of use to anyone that was ever master rifleman..even after giving it up!!..just an example. Does that sound like a good idea?
Yastar,
You can equip a DX2 or a T21 and fire it. You can not fire it well (barking - map placement). You can not use specials (reduced vendor fees), but you can use it.
Just another point of view.
EnigmaBSc wrote:
Forgive me for reposting this from another thread, but "How can holding vendors after you give merchant up be called an exploit?". This is how:
From the Community Standards:
12. You will not exploit any bug in Star Wars Galaxies, and you will not communicate the existence of any such exploitable bug either directly or through public posting, to any other Sony Station member. You will promptly report such bugs via the /bug command in-game or by emailing [email protected]. Exploitable bugs include, but are not limited to bugs that grant the user unnatural or unintended benefits in-game.
From one of Thunderheart's 19 Answers threads:
It was never intended for players to be able to keep and manage vendors after surrendering the Management skill boxes used to acquire them. This is scheduled to be fixed in a future publish and we want to upgrade vendors also, but it’s a bit early to start talking about that.
EnigmaBSc
EnigmaBSc wrote:
Forgive me for reposting this from another thread, but "How can holding vendors after you give merchant up be called an exploit?". This is how:
From the Community Standards:
12. You will not exploit any bug in Star Wars Galaxies, and you will not communicate the existence of any such exploitable bug either directly or through public posting, to any other Sony Station member. You will promptly report such bugs via the /bug command in-game or by emailing [email protected]. Exploitable bugs include, but are not limited to bugs that grant the user unnatural or unintended benefits in-game.
From one of Thunderheart's 19 Answers threads:
It was never intended for players to be able to keep and manage vendors after surrendering the Management skill boxes used to acquire them. This is scheduled to be fixed in a future publish and we want to upgrade vendors also, but it’s a bit early to start talking about that.
EnigmaBSc
Way to throw out the EULA. My only real question is how do you KNOW for sure something that the game just ALLOWS, is a bug? Unless of course you spend countless hours scouring message board? I'm so SICK of the PLAYERS being called, exploiters, and getting banned because the devs did NOT program the game right. Most people do not even READ the forums. So unless SOE makes more of an effort to contact people and inform them "Hey doing this is wrong!", How are they supposed to know continuing to manage the vendor is an exploit? If it had been programmed properly as soon as you drop the skill needed to manage vendors they would simply poof. End of problem.
Message Edited by Astev_Aris on 08-20-2004 07:04 PM
It was a bug, you're arguing semantics if you're arguing it wasn't.
It's stated in the EULA and in TH's post.
If you're still running your mouth about it, spend your energies on getting some storage structures ready.