Merchant Archive
Thread: Fix for the Non-Merchant vendor issue Proposal
Personally, Rumblingsky, I think doc DID answer your question.
What's the benefit to the crafter? The fact that gunsmiths make guns, armorsmiths make armor and merchants are the best at selling lots of stuff to lots of people. That's what doc is saying. The benefit is that professions have unique roles to fill which means, in this interdependant system people NEED our profession and we aren't left twiddling our thumbs because EVERYONE already has their six vendors, full advertising, full efficiency perks, and customized to their liking, complete with Pink Mute Protocol droid, and have spent NONE of the skill points. That's the benefit. Because if I can just take your profession, then I ought to be able to keep all my schematics from weaponsmith as long as I have the resources to make the schematic right? I should be able to pump out all the t21 uber rifles I like and sell them for 500k a pop even though I'm NOT a weaponsmith any more, as long as I dedicate ONE factory to that. Same thing for armor. Oh and while I'm at it, I ought to keep my certifications from Pistoleer, even though I'm not a pistoleer any more. AND my skill mods, because afterall, you don't FORGET how to shoot a pistol, right? It's the same thing for us. Not only that, they're doing it to smugglers too. I can't even smuggle, and already the ability to move illegal things past the authorities (smuggling) is a purchaseable perk for non-smugglers. All they need is some MSE droids or some Imperial Faction Points. Boom. Insta-smuggling. They'll never get scanned again! Why give me my unique and fun role in the galaxy. That's what this is all about. Protecting the roles of professions so that people who actually want the PROFESSION, not the benefits, get to have a fun game.
Effect on the customers? Good I'd say. Because people who run vendors are merchants. Not weaponsmiths who used to be merchants, but MERCHANTS who depend on those vendors for income which means they WILL have product on there and it WILL be competively priced so that the product MOVES and their suppliers get their cut and keep doing business with THEM. Some people say this makes an oligopoly. I disagree entirely. I think it will actually add some real competition to the economic system. Because right now ANYONE can be galaxy wide with a vendor on six planets if they want. There are a glut of vendors, none of them bothering to compete because really, what's the point? The customers will come there or they won't. There's so much competition that there's no reason to compete with them because you can't keep up with them all. And besides, you don't need to, because customers don't need to bother with being choosy. There's LOTS of vendors out there, and most of them understocked so they just buy from the first one that's selling their product. They're happy they found what they were looking for. You say that empty vendors have nothing to do with this problem? I say nonsense. I say this is a large part OF the empty vendor problem. People with empty vendors are just chugging up xp as quick as possible so they can get their perfect vendors (or their FSCS) and drop the profession. They don't care about their customers, or their reputations as merchants because they AREN'T merchants. They're crafters who want a vendor for nothing.
So how's that? More specific for you?
Tarnak_Archvold wrote:
Wire3k if you arguments are carried out to the fullest it will destroy this game. Let me show you.
And to RumblingSky. What was the benefit to the general population of the server when thair pet level was dropped from cl 15 to cl 10... and where was the benefit when the in the SAME change was restricted to 1 faction pet instead of 3?
It was non existed. If fact the ENTIRE redo of the CH profession was beneficial ONLT to CH's, and not even to all ch's.
The benefit to the rest of the game with the CL level drop is that players are not now totally dependant upon their creatures like they were. The benefit for only having one faction pet instead of three was a balancing issue which made the game more fair overall. Those being attacked by the 3 pets were not being swarmed and killed unfairly while those with the pets now have more of a challange.
Debate it if you want.. it's still true.
Tarnak_Archvold wrote:
The more people the make weapons the better for the customers, why should only weaponsmith make weapons for the masses. That way the customer would have a much better selection.
ElPedroSG wrote:
Why do people who drop the skill box still have these abilities? It is an exploit knowingly done. Not one person who continues to abuse this broken game feature can honestly say they didn't realise it at the time of giving up the skill, or at least continued to use the abilities granted.
JTGAlpha wrote:
So how's that? More specific for you?
I don't see why. And even if it were to, big deal. Once you hit a certain decibel level it's all noise anyway.
Sure, lots of people will swarm the starports, but they do that anyway....
AND actually I think that would be better in the long run for starport spamming....
WHY? Because right now you've got 75% of the spamming at Coronet. The rest dispersed. However, if there's that much more competition, perhaps they'll spread out to ALL the starports, thus, while increasing the total amount of spammers galactically, lowering the concentration, thereby eliviating Static City Ghost towns.
Or, they'll just contact their local merchant.
RumblingSky wrote:
SOE claims to have a zero tolerance policy for exploitation. These people NEED to be banned
Wow.. you must be the first and only person I've ever met who not only enjoys the lag, but wants more of it.
JTGAlpha wrote:
I don't see why. And even if it were to, big deal.
WHY? Because right now you've got 75% of the spamming at Coronet. The rest dispersed. However, if there's that much more competition, perhaps they'll spread out to ALL the starports, thus, while increasing the total amount of spammers galactically, lowering the concentration, thereby eliviating Static City Ghost towns.
ElPedroSG wrote:
RumblingSky wrote:
SOE claims to have a zero tolerance policy for exploitation. These people NEED to be banned
Not banned, stopped from exploiting. There are far worse exploits that only get a suspension when they should be banned, and a zero tolerance would mean anyone who ever left a speeder out in their rush to not miss the shuttle...
No. They need to be banned. That is what zero tolerance means. It doesn't mean this kind of exploit is okay and we just need to fix it while this exploit over here is far worse and they need to be banned. No, zero tolerance means everyone who exploits gets banned, regardless of the severety because.. there is zero (as in NO) tolerance.
Oh yeah, this also includes people who leave their bikes out, travel to another planet, then store and recall their bikes. Fixing your bike in such a manner is also an exploit. And yes, I like the way you tried to justify a bug you probably exploit too.. you just explain away the intentional aspect of it. They all need to be banned as well.
Either SOE needs to live up to their promise of a ZERO TOLERANCE for exploitation or you need to stop calling a natural function of the game an exploit.
Hmm.. what would happen if the manager of a fast food place became a bad manager (i.e. losing his management skills). Most likely he wouldn't lose employees.. after all, they enjoy the paycheck.. he would just lose money.. hense the higher cost for maintaining the emplyees, but losing the skill to properly manage them.
and technically, hiring should be the skill that governs how many employees you have.. but eh..
Message Edited by RumblingSky on 04-05-2004 09:28 PM
No it's still an exploit. And despite what it says anywhere regarding SOE and a zero tolerance to exploiting you know it will never be so, and in this case doesn't need to be.
Just putting an end to it will satisfy me personally and the majority of other people who would like to see the bug fixed. The change is coming (item database issue tells me this - in quiet moments we still have a little time to chat :smileytongue it's just a question of when, I and a few others would like that change sooner rather than later.
In the same way this issue isn't game breaking (just database breaking) the bike issue isn't either, it just isn't functioning as the money sink the extra speed was supposed to compensate for. It will do in the future though and I am sure no one will be banned for it
Edit: The burger bar RL comparison edited addition is not valid. Your subject isn't limited to 250 skill points in what they can remember at one time.
Edit#2: Damn missed this one "Either SOE needs to live up to their promise of a ZERO TOLERANCE for exploitation or you need to stop calling a natural function of the game an exploit." lol that was a good one! So everything in game that can be done is legit then? In which case there is no such thing as an exploit so no need to have a policy regarding it, lived up to or not.
Message Edited by ElPedroSG on 04-06-2004 02:34 AM
Message Edited by ElPedroSG on 04-06-2004 02:39 AM
ElPedroSG wrote:
Edit: The burger bar RL comparison edited addition is not valid. Your subject isn't limited to 250 skill points in what they can remember at one time.
Actually, it is. There are many reasons why managers who were once good suddenly lose the ability to continue to be good managers. It is synonymous with dropping the skills. It is a real world analogy and while the specifics (i.e. we do not have character sheets or statistic as I know them in real life) differ, the concept is the same.
Edit#2: Damn missed this one "Either SOE needs to live up to their promise of a ZERO TOLERANCE for exploitation or you need to stop calling a natural function of the game an exploit." lol that was a good one! So everything in game that can be done is legit then? In which case there is no such thing as an exploit so no need to have a policy regarding it, lived up to or not.
I see your point, but I raise you clarification on what I was saying. If someone is intentionally using a bug then they need to ban that person for exploting that bug -- regardless of what the bug is(or they should drop the threat of zero tolerance). If the game was intended to be that way, then they shouldn't ban anyone and simply explain that is the way it should work. So far, they have done neither. As I see it, Merchant is an extension or suppliment profession to the crafter professions. I could be wrong and I would admit that I was if SOE either announced that it was or if they changed it. Again, they have done neither. While it is still an option, however, I will continue to argue against it until SOE (or we.. by helping them) come up with a way to prevent AFK spamming in the starports which causes "game breaking" lag, often rendering the game unplayable in certain areas.
Again, and for the last time, keep in mind I still have management 3, because I don't believe in taking chances with my hard work. I do not know which way SOE leans on this issue as they have never clarified it. My main problem is the extra lag that will be caused throughout the entire galaxy as opposed to it being confined to the few areas it is at now. You don't have to believe this will become a worse issue, but it will. The proof is in the history of AFK spamming.
Regardless of how something was intended to work, one must predict the result of a change and attempt to aleviate the negative aspects prior to making the change. While it is impossible to predect every aspect of a change, this one is obvious and must be addressed first.
I don't enjoy the lag and I don't want more of it.
But what's worse? One city with EVERYONE in it and annoying as piss because of lag, and all the rest empty...
Or ALL the static cities with a handful of people in them with a little lag?
Personally I HATE the fact that everyone hangs out at Coronet. Sure it's not terrible for me because I live on Corellia, but I hate the fact that Mos Eisley, a buzzing hive of scum and villiany is as empty as a gay bar in Macon GA. I hate empty cities. I loathe them. Breaks my immersion and makes me bored as piss. The problem is that spammers congregate at Coronet because everyone is there. Everyone is there because that's where everyone goes to ply their trade, many of which are spammers.
If there are SO many spammers that coronet can't hold them all the people with something to actually sell will migrate elsewhere, the customers with them, and the spammers will follow like parasites, thus spreading the joy and the pain across the entire galaxy instead of focusing ALL of it in one city.
Now, that's not how it will go, but it's a possibillity. It's mob psychology. Already, at least amongst the smuggling community, who represent a LARGE portion of desired trade, if a market is full we move on elsewhere. What if the same were true for ALL professions. Too many afk dancers. Too many docs. Too many spammers. Too many smugglers. People will move. They will migrate. Too many vendors in one spot is NOT a good place to make money. Too much competition. So the hopeful consequence is that they'll spread out.
All of this is besides the point. The point is, I really don't believe that letting merchants perform their designed function, and keeping their role unique, fun, and vital, will equal a spamming hell the likes of which never before seen, as you purport.
ElPedroSG wrote:
Firstly if it's no big deal how about stating your crafting prodession then we can discuss that.